16 replies to this topic

[Luna]

I had a dream I lived my life, enjoyed it I think, forgot about death, neglected it or ignored it.
Then the time was nearing and all the panic and anxiety came back, I didn't want to die.. then suddenly I remembered I need to look for something.. but there seems to have been nothing. Panic, fear, dying.. just the thought of it inside a dream..
Then I think someone came and gave me immortality and a mission I think.

Being awake I just remember the feeling of anxiety and how I look on the web to see updates or anything, but there still can;t find a cure, still nothing.. and how death simply seems to be getting closer.

I don't get how it is possible to forget about it or live a normal life and enjoy it and then die.. that's so scary.

How looking on the future usually seems grim, scary.. black and empty.. as if it's only death waiting there.

I remember as a very young kid, like around 5, I already started to be afraid of it.
How I asked mom and she said people just learn to accept it.. but I refuse to accept it. And I am afraid of the scenario of ignoring it, and then having it coming anyways.. I am also afraid of hoping each and every day, or joining a cause and then just dying anyways.. I really hope there will be a solution but my feelings are on the terrified and hopeless side. As if there is some cruel joke in this universe, even though the universe doesn't joke, it just does.. mindlessly and we are the ones that call it "it jokes on us".

Edited by Luna, 10 February 2010 - 06:23 AM.

[The Immortalist]

Hi Luna,

Your fears are very rational and reasonable, Most people put them out of there mind, that is basically the Pro aging trance. You like others here including me have refused to not put them out of our mind.

This is how I deal with my fears about death:

I think since humanity is increasing it's technology and that is not likely to ever stop we will literally be able to do anything in the future. I feel that Immortality is impossible to avoid. I will freeze myself using cryonics and I'm so optimistic that they will be able to bring back the cryo-preserved bodies to life. That is why death doesn't bother me.

I also think that in the future they will be able to make Happiness medications, kind of like today's antidepressants but 100's of time better. These medications will be able to work on your brain to keep you in a state of everlasting euphoria and happiness. I've read that when you artificially stimulate the pleasure centres of your brain with some sort of electric impulse (not exactly sure how they do it) it feels really really really good and it feels just as good if you do it a second time in 5 seconds or 5 hours. This is why I think these future medications will not make life boring. These medications will also artificially eliminate all feelings of suffering.

I believe death in itself isn't so bad (I don't know what being dead is like and frankly I do not care) it is all the things we miss out on doing. That is what motivates me to work for this cause.

Do not let your fears hinder you, use your fear to motivate you.

Lets say if I die and I never do get brought back to life, it doesn't matter to me as long as I helped this cause to the best of my ability and in doing so it brought the cure to aging closer than it would have if I didn't help.

Overall I think think the fear of death is a good thing. I still have the fear of death, I think of it everyday but I actually like it, it keeps me in perspective and it motivates me.

May I ask what you are doing to help this cause? Are you going to go to school to be able to research aging directly or something like that? You could also help in the projects section if you are not doing so already.

[Luna]

on the way to the doctor today in the morning I realized that this dream had soem good in it.
Usually when I think on the subject or dream about it, I get to a b lack hole, terrified, dying, helpless.. in this one I actually got to a stage beyond :D I didn't wake up after being near death in my dream ^^ that's unusual for those type of dreams, I actually saw immortality for the first time :D

[4eva]

Your dreams are symbolic; they are never about what you think they are about. You have to do some work to find the real message of your dream. You have to figure out what each symbol in the dream means to you and put together all those symbols into one overall message. It's possible your dream is about something else other than death and immortality.

I've read somewhere that any dream that makes you feel anxious, especially one that wakes you up with a pounding heart, is about something important. That is how your subconscious gets your attention: it uses fear and or anxiety. So scary dreams are about something important, not about something to fear. Something to take seriously.

I don't think it is useful to take your dreams in a literal way. One dream, I think, can have several layers to discover. The meaning of any dream is never so obvious. And you also have to consider what is going on in your life right now, if the dream is recent. Dreams need to be analyzed in the context of your current life. You can't really analyze a dream you had months or years ago unless you know what was going on in your life then (because of detailed journal entries, for example).

[Luna]

I don't think you are correct 4eva, I had dreams about death quite a lot. Once I started learning about some universe theories that are related to the far future of it and us, I had scary dreams about it.

I used to play a game called Go, I even had dreams about it if I thought of it or played it before sleep My dreams are almost always quite precise in their meaning and are accurate to my feelings for things.

[Elus]

Your dream is a manifestation of humanity's innate rebellion against death. We live to fight death. This is evident from our attempts to cure disease to our attempts to care for the elderly and weak.

I'm sure you agree, Luna: We are fighting the hardest fight to ever be fought. These are the reasons why this fight is so hard:

#1. No one has ever conquered death in the history of humanity. We can not be certain if it is possible to defeat aging with a reasonable time frame, but we can only make educated guesses as to when we will transcend senescence. Because of accelerating returns, as proposed by Ray Kurzweil, I am optimistic that we will be able to stop aging.

#2. Stopping aging is only the part of the battle. We then need to find a way to make ourselves immune to natural catastrophes. This means things like oxygen deprivation, heat, lack of food and water, bodily injury, pathogens etc need to be entirely overcome. We must be able to preserve our consciousness no matter what. Obviously, this means taking on another form that is infinitely stronger that the body we have at the moment. This raises the question: How will we transfer our consciousness without merely creating a copy of ourselves that isn't really us?

#3. Eventually, we need to find a way to battle entropy itself. As you know, the disorder in the universe is always increasing, so it will become increasingly harder to avoid heat death, where energy is so thinly spread out that it cannot possibly support life. Countering a fundamental law of physics? I hope we have some very smart people in the future, because that's going to be an incredible challenge.

#4. The things we will learn may scar us. What if there is some ugly truth about the universe that we have yet to discover? What will we do if we find out that true immortality is unattainable? What is the purpose to life? What if it has no purpose, but merely flickers ephemerally in a cosmic blink? How will we cope? These questions already torment my mind, and I've already begun to shrink away from them because they are scary questions.

Doesn't it awe you? The thought of living forever, and managing to achieve that right now, in our lifetimes? Can you imagine, CAN YOU EVEN BEGIN TO IMAGINE? Being alive 1 million years from now? That YOU, YOU LUNA, had been born at the edge of a metaphorical cliff and were one of the first beings to ever cross over into the realm of immortality. If you had been born 70 years earlier, an insignificant amount of time relative to the eons of the universe, you would not have the privilege of stepping into a world of limitless possibility. Doesn't it blow your mind - the fact that we're living in such extraordinary times that might change the way we lead our existence? The most profound change ever to take place in our history.

Will we be the last generation to die of aging, or the first generation to walk past the crystal gates of eternal youth?

Edited by Elus Efelier, 10 February 2010 - 11:28 PM.

[niner]

Doesn't it awe you? The thought of living forever, and managing to achieve that right now, in our lifetimes? Can you imagine, CAN YOU EVEN BEGIN TO IMAGINE? Being alive 1 million years from now? That YOU, YOU LUNA, had been born at the edge of a metaphorical cliff and were one of the first beings to ever cross over into the realm of immortality. If you had been born 70 years earlier, an insignificant amount of time relative to the eons of the universe, you would not have the privilege of stepping into a world of limitless possibility. Doesn't it blow your mind - the fact that we're living in such extraordinary times that might change the way we lead our existence? The most profound change ever to take place in our history.

Will we be the last generation to die of aging, or the first generation to walk past the crystal gates of eternal youth?

I really like this passage, Elus; it's full of life. I think you've put this very well. It's an exciting time.

[hotamali]

It really does sadden me to think that there are people today who are aware of radical life extension technologies but will die before they come into existence(people in the their 70's, 80's). My grandfather introduced me to Transhumanism in 2005 when he gave me The Singularity is Near, when I was 14. He knew very well from the beggining that he wouldn't live to see the singularity, but I would. It was almost as if he accepted that I would live on for him, almost like I was his extension or something. He died last year of cancer. But I think that it was meant to be, he was from another generation and all of his life had accepted the concept of death, and to suddenly have an alternative probably didn't sit well with him.

Edited by hotamali, 11 February 2010 - 02:12 AM.

[Luna]

Doesn't it awe you? The thought of living forever, and managing to achieve that right now, in our lifetimes? Can you imagine, CAN YOU EVEN BEGIN TO IMAGINE? Being alive 1 million years from now? That YOU, YOU LUNA, had been born at the edge of a metaphorical cliff and were one of the first beings to ever cross over into the realm of immortality. If you had been born 70 years earlier, an insignificant amount of time relative to the eons of the universe, you would not have the privilege of stepping into a world of limitless possibility. Doesn't it blow your mind - the fact that we're living in such extraordinary times that might change the way we lead our existence? The most profound change ever to take place in our history.

Will we be the last generation to die of aging, or the first generation to walk past the crystal gates of eternal youth?

I really like this passage, Elus; it's full of life. I think you've put this very well. It's an exciting time.

Just hope this inspiration won't end with dying like the ones who said stuff 70 years ago O_o

[Luna]

Yesterday there was some show on the science channel. They showed some actress fighting a kidney disease. They showed her at times saying "I will win this" at others she cried "I don't want to die", they showed her fear, her in times of spirit, despair, hope.. she died of the disease. scary...... all the crying and hope.. that's unfair. And this was now, 2000 something..

[Elus]

Luna, while you may think of all the things that could potentially go wrong with our epic quest, it will get you nowhere to dwell on these things.

It is far better to search for solutions than to dwell on the difficulty of the problem.

Have hope, Luna. We have things that will potentially enable our continued existence, even in this day. One of these things is cryogenics. By the time you and I have a need for it, cryogenics will have improved tremendously. Hopefully, we won't need to resort to such extreme measures, but they're there if we need them.

Never, EVER, EVER, Give up. I know I won't. Hope and determination are the characteristics that will drive the progress of our future into the dawn of a new era. Regardless of our success, I will fight to the bitter end. That woman you saw may be dead; however, her message lives on. Rebel against death with every ounce of strength you have. Cling to life and never let go.

This epic music best describes my feelings toward our momentous quest - a tenuous struggle for our very existence!

[Alex Libman]

Being a tax resister and someday a secessionist whose most probable cause of death will be being killed by the government, my goal over the past few years has been to find a rational balance between fear of death (which I see as one of the most rational human emotions) and the fulfillment of all my other values, which may at time contradict it.

The value of my life comes not just from its chronological duration and not mere appeasement of short-term whims, but from the mental development that I achieve during my lifetime - my sense of life, the ideas that I create, the intellectual integrity with which I attempt to apply those ideas, and ultimately the resulting effect that I manage to create during my lifetime.

My life is subject to certain material limitations and it may be cut even shorter due to the violent intervention of others, but the things that I accomplish during my lifetime need not be diminished by its chronological constraints. My life will always had existed, as it was - it is a part of the fabric of the universe. If humanity ever learns to read brainwaves from past echos of the quantum foam (or whatever other things may be) then another instance of my life may yet exist, if not then not. It is a big deal of course, but it's not my only concern. They can confine my existence to the past, but they cannot erase what I have already accomplished.

It matters not just to live, but to develop your potential as a thinking being, and to act accordingly.

[Putz]

Being a tax resister and someday a secessionist whose most probable cause of death will be being killed by the government, my goal over the past few years has been to find a rational balance between fear of death (which I see as one of the most rational human emotions) and the fulfillment of all my other values, which may at time contradict it.

The value of my life comes not just from its chronological duration and not mere appeasement of short-term whims, but from the mental development that I achieve during my lifetime - my sense of life, the ideas that I create, the intellectual integrity with which I attempt to apply those ideas, and ultimately the resulting effect that I manage to create during my lifetime.

My life is subject to certain material limitations and it may be cut even shorter due to the violent intervention of others, but the things that I accomplish during my lifetime need not be diminished by its chronological constraints. My life will always had existed, as it was - it is a part of the fabric of the universe. If humanity ever learns to read brainwaves from past echos of the quantum foam (or whatever other things may be) then another instance of my life may yet exist, if not then not. It is a big deal of course, but it's not my only concern. They can confine my existence to the past, but they cannot erase what I have already accomplished.

It matters not just to live, but to develop your potential as a thinking being, and to act accordingly.

Government will be forced to shrink dramatically as a post-scarcity world approaches - whenever that happens. No need to expect violence.

[Luna]

I just saw this topic came out after I didn't see it for a long time

Thanks Elus Efelier! it's helping a bit

Funny thing is, just a few days ago I felt quite confident for over a week, and very well in some way.. Now again I seem to be a bit down again.. perhaps my friend's grandfather dying had an effect. Was so sudden too.

[Alex Libman]

Government will be forced to shrink dramatically as a post-scarcity world approaches - whenever that happens.

Some will claim a "post-scarcity world" is theoretically impossible due to the omnipotence paradox, but I'll postpone my decision on this issue by a few billion years - we'll all be in a much better position to speculate on this issue then. (Unless of course we're dead.) I mean, sure, it might seem that we no longer have scarcity once we've converted this whole universe to a giant computer, but how does a universal computer compute that it can't be optimized to compute better?

No need to expect violence.

Violence is the distinguishing characteristic of "government". (Take any person or private institution and allow it the "divine right" to initiate violence, and it becomes a "government". Take any "government" and take away that "divine right" and it becomes a private institution.) And power does not like to give up power without a fight.

[bacopa]

I don't think you are correct 4eva, I had dreams about death quite a lot. Once I started learning about some universe theories that are related to the far future of it and us, I had scary dreams about it.

I used to play a game called Go, I even had dreams about it if I thought of it or played it before sleep My dreams are almost always quite precise in their meaning and are accurate to my feelings for things.

my dreams also reflect the mood, mental state and thinking I'm in at the current moment. So yes I think dreams often are directly as a result of the way we think and feel.

[N.T.M.]

Also realize that most people just accept death as an inevitability. You, on the other, realize that it can conceivably be countered. It's this (valid) sense of hope that makes it difficult to suppress the fear that everybody associates with death.