21 replies to this topic

[fieyaa]

I do quite a bit of bodybuilding and was wondering if nootropics have any negative effect towards bodybuilding? Also, would taking some of the "sedative" nootropics like Phenibut cause adverse effects when lifting heavy weights (lifting to failure, maxing out, etc)

[rahein]

I bodybuild and take nootropics and haven't seen a problem. If anything they help m be more focused at achiving goals. Not sure about sedative like noops though.

[Kalepha]

I do quite a bit of bodybuilding and was wondering if nootropics have any negative effect towards bodybuilding? Also, would taking some of the "sedative" nootropics like Phenibut cause adverse effects when lifting heavy weights (lifting to failure, maxing out, etc)

Try it and see. If you’re finely in-tune with your neuromuscular system, you should immediately be able to tell if these nootropics are affecting your performance when lifting heavy weights till failure.

But might I ask, why are you worrying about maxing out if you’re a bodybuilder?

[fieyaa]

Try it and see. If you’re finely in-tune with your neuromuscular system, you should immediately be able to tell if these nootropics are affecting your performance when lifting heavy weights till failure.

But might I ask, why are you worrying about maxing out if you’re a bodybuilder?

strength gains..

[Kalepha]

strength gains..

Right... equipoised with injury. Strength gains are also achieved with 4- to 6-rep sets. Also, muscle mass is not entirely a function of strength gains. But more power to ya.

[fieyaa]

Right... equipoised with injury. Strength gains are also achieved with 4- to 6-rep sets. Also, muscle mass is not entirely a function of strength gains. But more power to ya.

You can injure yourself just as easily doing 10 rep sets but with proper lifting techniques and a good spotter maxing out shouldn't lead to injury. I do agree with you that strength gains are achieved at 4/6 rep sets, but I never said there was a relationship between muscle mass and strength gains. Also, I dont know where this attitude came from I just asked a question. An answer like "just try and see" is nothing what i was looking for. When lifting i often get close to fainting, puking, etc doing some exercises (mainly legs) and having something new effecting me would not be beneficial if it pushed me over the edge.

[Kalepha]

… but I never said there was a relationship between muscle mass and strength gains.

Bodybuilding means nothing more than training to build muscle mass, reduce adipose tissue, and perhaps win bodybuilding competitions. An explicit relationship needn’t be stated. It’s implied by the definition of the identity you mentioned.

An answer like "just try and see" is nothing what i was looking for.

Why not? No matter what anyone would tell you, it would be based on their physiology, not yours. Therefore, the advice wouldn’t really be helpful unless you experimented with it for yourself. On the other hand, if you inquired into how well you might perform going into the gym drunk, no one would tell you to try it and see.

Nootropics in appropriate doses don’t alter your state of consciousness in dangerous ways. So if you’re thinking about taking a nootropic that you think might facilitate better learning, and given that nootropics negligibly alter brain states, it makes the most sense to simply just try it out and see what happens.

My statement was qualified with the indication that if you are closely connected with your neuromuscular system without a scientific laboratory, which is an attribute bodybuilders usually attain after at least three years of smart training, it’s easy to try new things and discern what’s working from what’s not.

When lifting i often get close to fainting, puking, etc doing some exercises (mainly legs) and having something new effecting me would not be beneficial if it pushed me over the edge.

No nootropic has enough power to affect your body negatively for longer than it takes to see if you felt a little sluggishness during a single training session. Bodybuilding and increasing cognition with nootropics are slow enough processes that making inconsequential tweaks like these are best observed through self-experimentation.

[Kalepha]

BTW, what sort of research have you already done on it? There doesn't seem to be any indication that you'd have to worry much about being pushed over the edge.

[rahein]

You might contact BrooklynJuice he just joined this board and claims to have introduced nooptropics to the BB world. I don't know if he is here enough to check his PMs, but is contact info is in a thread titled Pramiracetam subtitle I got a source.

If you contact him lets us know what he says.

[shpongled]

A few things:

-Nootropics, in general, are probably only of minor benefit to bodybuilders. The most important effects would be increased resistance to psychological stress and CNS fatigue, improved motivation, and similar effects. I doubt there will be a direct performance enhancing effect such as what you would see with a stimulant like caffeine. They may improve skills for activities that involve fine motor coordination. With any given nootropic, you can theorize reasons for and against why it would be beneficial for someone doing resistance training. My opinion is that they will generally be of benefit, but not nearly as much as many other agents.

-Nootropics that may cause sedation (such as phenibut) are certainly not a good idea pre-workout.

-I really disagree with the "try it and see" approach. There are many things to consider. You may feel that a drug acutely improves performance and take it regularly only to discover that in the long-term it has negative effects on hormonal balance. You should do your research before taking any drug. While individual physiology and reaction does differ, you can still predict drug effects within a certain margin of error. Also, the placebo effect and many other variables make it next to impossible to determine if a drug is having a positive or negative impact just by taking it unless it has a truly pronounced effect.

And, as a side note, periodic strength training can certainly be of benefit for a bodybuilder, for multiple reasons.

[shpongled]

You might contact BrooklynJuice he just joined this board and claims to have introduced nooptropics to the BB world. I don't know if he is here enough to check his PMs, but is contact info is in a thread titled Pramiracetam subtitle I got a source. 

If you contact him lets us know what he says.

He claims a lot of things. He does not know what he is talking about. Everything he says is plagiarized, and this can easily be demonstrated, just run a Google search for a phrase from any of his "informational" posts. I'm not just trying to talk shit here, I'm just saying be careful who you trust to provide information, and know where the information is coming from.

[Kalepha]

I really disagree with the "try it and see" approach.

“Try it and see” as a general approach wasn’t being encouraged, only in regards to phenibut (and under circumstances already mentioned), since there are no reported incidents of it having a dangerous or negative effect on bodybuilders.

And, as a side note, periodic strength training can certainly be of benefit for a bodybuilder, for multiple reasons.

Right – I wasn’t saying that it wouldn’t be beneficial. But “maxing out,” or one-rep sets, have no benefit in a strictly bodybuilding context, only for exhibitionist purposes at the expense of unwarranted risk. I see this sort of practice all the time with twigs and rarely, if ever, with seasoned and highly developed trainers.

[Mind]

I lift weights and I take gingko, vinpocetine, cod liver oil, DHA, ginseng, and multivitamins. What seems to have the most effect is vinpocetine. I think more clearly and it makes me happier (doesn't neccessarily do the same for everyone). Is a happy bodybuilder a more efficient bodybuilder? Probably.

[pSimonKey]

Oxandrolone seems to be the "smart" steroid. Cycled at 20 mg a day for 6-8 weeks and combined with piracetam (1200mgs ed), creatine (10-15gms ed), r-ALA (100mgs ed), deprenyl ( 1mg ed) DMAE (200-300 mgs ed), phosphatidylserine (200 mgs ed) as well as anti-oxidents, of course, works very well indeed for both mind and body. I highly recommend it, and would love to discuss more on the subject.

[lynx]

I don't know if taking methylated steroids is exactly smart. It may make you feel good, but in my experience anything that boosts test -- 4AD, arimidex, 6-oxo feels smart. However, aromatase and estrogen are neuroprotective, so arimidex or 6-oxo long term is a bad idea.

[eres]

Any muscle stimulation prompts the muscle to adapt by becoming stronger. Maxing out as well. I personally don't max out, never liked it. I don't use a trainig partner and I don't use steroids. I try to keep it natural. Never really fooled with nootropics but a good creatine pump feels great and then theres NO2.

[brooklynjuice]

You might contact BrooklynJuice he just joined this board and claims to have introduced nooptropics to the BB world. I don't know if he is here enough to check his PMs, but is contact info is in a thread titled Pramiracetam subtitle I got a source. 

If you contact him lets us know what he says.

He claims a lot of things. He does not know what he is talking about. Everything he says is plagiarized, and this can easily be demonstrated, just run a Google search for a phrase from any of his "informational" posts. I'm not just trying to talk shit here, I'm just saying be careful who you trust to provide information, and know where the information is coming from.

such ass ppl who have money vested into certain products that have nifty articles

[pSimonKey]

There are some very interesting studies on oxandrolone, and of the class of "drugs" called steroids, oxandrolone is the smart choise. When used correctly it can be very useful for preventing certain kinds of physical degeneration, quickening some healing process', reducing body fat and promoting amino acid/s absortion ie creatine, l-theanine, acetyl-l-carnitne, l-carnosine. I did not find that there was any problem with recovery after completing the course either. My body weight increased by 5lbs, 4lbs of which still remains as a leaner body. A mild knee joint injury no longer bothers me and my posture is better. For NO2 I am sure that some sound research suggests that Gynastemma pentaphyllum is rather good and also has many other benefits, it is also called the immortality herb in China.

[lynx]

There are some very interesting studies on oxandrolone, and of the class of "drugs" called steroids, oxandrolone is the smart choise. When used correctly it can be very useful for preventing certain kinds of physical degeneration, quickening some healing process', reducing body fat and promoting amino acid/s absortion ie creatine, l-theanine, acetyl-l-carnitne, l-carnosine. I did not find that there was any problem with recovery after completing the course either. My body weight increased by 5lbs, 4lbs of which still remains as a leaner body. A mild knee joint injury no longer bothers me and my posture is better. For NO2 I am sure that some sound research suggests that Gynastemma pentaphyllum is rather good and also has many other benefits, it is also called the immortality herb in China.

You know what Simon, I was wrong. All I did was look at it and see that it was methylated. Turns out it is quite safe even for people with hepatic dysfunction. More power to you.

[jolly]

NO2 is horrible.... I just attended the ISSN conference, and it was quite interesting to see the number of sponsored studies (sponsored by the makers of NO2) that showed the lack of results with it.

[shpongled]

Good article on the toxicity of methylated steroids:

http://magazine.mind...eID=8&pageID=84