22 replies to this topic

[OneScrewLoose]

As many of you know I started taking Zinc because Lamictal might be depleting my Zinc levels, and got positive results. Now, for 2 1/2 months I've been taking a tiny dose of LDN, 1.5mg, to build tolerance (I will explain this in another thread tomorrow). I went up to 3mg a few nights ago, which is a real dose. One thing real nice thing that the Zinc did was making my skin have an all-around nice tone, have a healthier appearance, and break out less. Since I've gone up on the LDN, I've started to break out more. I don't know if LDN would effect Zinc or not, or if it's something else. Any thoughts? Links between opioids/endorphins/dopamine and zinc?

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 18 February 2010 - 03:39 AM.

[FunkOdyssey]

I started to break out more when I raised the dose of LDN initially, and then my skin would return to normal. It might be related to poorer quality sleep, higher cortisol levels, etc until the body adapts to the new dose.

Alternatively, it could be a symptom of higher than normal testosterone levels which seems to happen fairly commonly in men that use LDN.

[NDM]

I started to break out more when I raised the dose of LDN initially, and then my skin would return to normal. It might be related to poorer quality sleep, higher cortisol levels, etc until the body adapts to the new dose.

Alternatively, it could be a symptom of higher than normal testosterone levels which seems to happen fairly commonly in men that use LDN.

Funk, does LDN raise cortisol significantly? Isn't that bad?
Also, should LDN be taken considering body weight? I know the range is 1.5 to 4.5, but I weigh only 139 lbs, so how much would be ok for my weight? So far I've taken 4 mg...

I didn't notice an excess of pimples, but then I also take both taurine and pantothenic acid specifically to prevent pimples.

[FunkOdyssey]

Funk, does LDN raise cortisol significantly? Isn't that bad?
Also, should LDN be taken considering body weight? I know the range is 1.5 to 4.5, but I weigh only 139 lbs, so how much would be ok for my weight? So far I've taken 4 mg...

I didn't notice an excess of pimples, but then I also take both taurine and pantothenic acid specifically to prevent pimples.

It hasn't been shown to in any studies, I am just hypothesizing that it probably does (temporarily), based on the reduced duration and quality of sleep experienced when beginning LDN therapy.

Ian Zagon, the principal researcher of LDN does believe dose should scale with bodyweight. Dr. Bihari, the pioneering physician who was the first to prescribe LDN to thousands of people, believed in a one-size-fits-all 4.5mg approach.

There's no known correct answer, but I would lean toward scaling for bodyweight, because I've read alot from Zagon and he's a smart guy. Pick up the book "The Promise of Low Dose Naltrexone Therapy" for more information.

[OneScrewLoose]

Let's not forget that the endorphin system seems to be very different from other chemical receptor systems in the body. I am extremely skinny (5'11") 150lbs, and I still noticed a much better effect from 4.5mg. If the weight scaling is true, then you'd think the dose would get less and less effective as I pass over a theoretical max, which one would think would be less than 4.5mg for me. I know this is simplifying and guesstimating, but it's still something to consider. I have never heard (yet, at least) of anyone getting weight-dependent effects from it. And for me it's not worth trying to find out as it takes me 3 months to get adjusted to each dose.

[NDM]

the thing is that we don't know for sure if the guys at alldaychemist really put 50 mg in the tablets - maybe there's slightly less than it should be...I keep wondering about that yellowish residue that doesn't want to dissolve...

so in that case the nominal 4.5 would actually be somewhat less...

[OneScrewLoose]

If you can get a prescription there's a list of reliable pharmacies for this.

[Mia K.]

the thing is that we don't know for sure if the guys at alldaychemist really put 50 mg in the tablets -

alldaychemist sells Naltrexone as "Naltima" which is manufactured by Intas.  This is a legitimate brand, and each tab can be expected to contain the full 50 mg.  I use "Nodict" manuf. by Sun Pharma - 4.5mg nightly.  This is more effective for me than the lower (3 mg) dose I tried briefly.  I'm 5'10, 110 lbs (slender, fine-boned female). 


Best, Mia

Edited by Mia K., 25 February 2010 - 02:26 AM.

[FunkOdyssey]

the thing is that we don't know for sure if the guys at alldaychemist really put 50 mg in the tablets - maybe there's slightly less than it should be...I keep wondering about that yellowish residue that doesn't want to dissolve...

so in that case the nominal 4.5 would actually be somewhat less...

The yellowish residue are fillers. Naltrexone itself is water-soluble and dissolves completely. I've read that its actually desirable NOT to agitate your liquid LDN preparation before dosing, so as to leave the filler on the bottom and suck up only naltrexone with your dropper or pipette.

[OneScrewLoose]

The dose for this seems so sensitive that I would try to get the prescription if you can.

[stephen_b]

The dose for this seems so sensitive that I would try to get the prescription if you can.

I don't know if I'd go that far. If you start a batch of LDN solution by dissolving a 50 mg tab in water, and that 50 mg has 10% more naltrexone than it should, your 3.0 mg becomes 3.15 mg. It might be hard to tell the difference.

[OneScrewLoose]

The dose for this seems so sensitive that I would try to get the prescription if you can.

I don't know if I'd go that far. If you start a batch of LDN solution by dissolving a 50 mg tab in water, and that 50 mg has 10% more naltrexone than it should, your 3.0 mg becomes 3.15 mg. It might be hard to tell the difference.

I'd be more concerned about measuring the drops correctly.

[stephen_b]

I'd be more concerned about measuring the drops correctly.

I have a bottle that can hold 50 ml of liquid and a glass dropper marked to 1 ml in 0.25 ml increments. In goes 50 ml water, two naltrexone 50 mg tablets, and I get 2 mg naltrexone per 1 ml of liquid.

If the solution is dilute enough, it's not too hard to be reasonably accurate.

[OneScrewLoose]

I'd be more concerned about measuring the drops correctly.

I have a bottle that can hold 50 ml of liquid and a glass dropper marked to 1 ml in 0.25 ml increments. In goes 50 ml water, two naltrexone 50 mg tablets, and I get 2 mg naltrexone per 1 ml of liquid.

If the solution is dilute enough, it's not too hard to be reasonably accurate.

I suppose. I personally just feel more comfortable knowing I am getting an exact dose. I would do it this way unless I couldn't get a prescription.

[protoject]

I heard naltrexone is better dissolved in an acid like vinegar. Acetic acid.

[penisbreath]

is it possible to get LDN online without a prescription?

also, to anyone reasonably familiar with the compound (Funk?), i was wondering if it might be beneficial for OCD in the same way that other compounds targeting the opiate system are (though those are generally direct agonists, right)? has anyone taking LDN noticed any effect on anxiety levels, etc.? i've heard of one case where LDN was added to an SSRI to treat OCD, though i think the block in reward induced by LDN created a sort of residual anhedonia, which doesn't really sound desirable ...

[FunkOdyssey]

is it possible to get LDN online without a prescription?

also, to anyone reasonably familiar with the compound (Funk?), i was wondering if it might be beneficial for OCD in the same way that other compounds targeting the opiate system are (though those are generally direct agonists, right)? has anyone taking LDN noticed any effect on anxiety levels, etc.? i've heard of one case where LDN was added to an SSRI to treat OCD, though i think the block in reward induced by LDN created a sort of residual anhedonia, which doesn't really sound desirable ...

LDN is about as anhedonic as any opiate agonist or a runner's high. Which is to say, it isn't remotely. Are you talking about the middle of the night while the naltrexone is in your system? Be asleep.

It might help OCD and certainly would not hurt to try.

Naltrexone is widely available from online sources.

[adamh]

I feel totally cheerful and positive on the stuff. I'm taking .25 mg every other day now. I am more motivated than ever. I just think of something on my to do list and I want to do it. I spend hours doing boring tasks and don't feel bored.

The down side is it makes it harder to sleep. Funk, I do not get a bad effect on it except I feel a little groggy and foggy. Not sleepy, just a little spaced out. Is that what you refer to? It lasts for days and I have almost the same effects the day I don't take it. The groggy feeling is not unpleasant but I screw up more often.

[NDM]

I take about 4mg/day but feel no boost in motivation at all...just better energy & mood.

[penisbreath]

is it possible to get LDN online without a prescription?

also, to anyone reasonably familiar with the compound (Funk?), i was wondering if it might be beneficial for OCD in the same way that other compounds targeting the opiate system are (though those are generally direct agonists, right)? has anyone taking LDN noticed any effect on anxiety levels, etc.? i've heard of one case where LDN was added to an SSRI to treat OCD, though i think the block in reward induced by LDN created a sort of residual anhedonia, which doesn't really sound desirable ...

LDN is about as anhedonic as any opiate agonist or a runner's high. Which is to say, it isn't remotely. Are you talking about the middle of the night while the naltrexone is in your system? Be asleep.

It might help OCD and certainly would not hurt to try.

Naltrexone is widely available from online sources.

my bad .. i think it was actually regular doses of naltrexone which were tested (i.e. those used to prevent alcohol cravings), since the authors theorized that the compulsions in OCD overlapped with addictive pathologies. i looked up a couple of studies last night which revealed no alterations in OCD symptoms, but an increase in anxiety/depression for some reason. regardless, i'd like to try it for its mood-enhancing properties, and the fact that my doctor suspects i'm suffering from a chronic infection

Current treatments for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) rely primarily on serotonergic mechanisms. However, approximately 30% of patients do not respond to serotonin reuptake inhibitors and remain chronically ill. Given the behavioral similarities between some of the compulsive behaviors in OCD and addiction, we hypothesized that the opioid antagonist naltrexone might attenuate compulsions in OCD as well. The effect of naltrexone augmentation to SRI was compared to placebo in 10 OCD outpatients who had not responded to an adequate dose of SSRI or clomipramine for at least 2 months. Participants underwent 5 weeks of treatment with naltrexone or placebo (and 1 week of tapering) in a randomized, double-blind, cross-over design. Patients were evaluated weekly using the Y-BOCS, CGI, HAM-A, and MADRS scales. A two-way repeated measures MANOVA revealed no significant effect for Y-BOCS. However, while receiving naltrexone, patients had significantly higher scores on CGI, MADRS and HAM-A as compared to placebo. The lack of significant findings on OC symptoms could be due to either ceiling effect or alternatively, due to a non-specific exacerbation on anxiety and depression but not on OC symptoms.

Edited by lucky.pierre, 05 May 2010 - 11:09 PM.

[adamh]

I have a theory that the effects vary a lot depending on dose. It seems like a totally different substance at high dose than at low dose. It may also vary from low dose to very low dose. On the MS boards they say too high or too low a dose will not work. They are talking about MS but I've looked at websites claiming it can cure a bunch of diseases from MS to cancer to neuropathy to crohn's to dozens of other things. I don't think opiate antagonism explains all those actions. If it's placebo, I don't care long as it keeps working.

[OneScrewLoose]

By the way I figured out long ago that it was the combination of LDN + Amitriptyline that was causing the problem. I was getting very anxious/depressed and had bad breakouts. Might've been too much NE. Getting off the ami fixed the problem.

Also, I am one week away from the being on 3mg for 3 months. That means, next Friday, I will be going up to 4.5mg. This might be the end of my ADD.

[VoyPerdiendo]

any news? im considering going on naltrexone myself