24 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

I apologize in advance if this disturbs anyone but I had to, for my own sanity, share this video I bumped into on youtube of a man dying of a heart attack on live television because, quite frankly, it scared the ever loving shit out of me. Granted he appears to be an old man in his 60s or 70s (maybe older) but nonetheless could this be all of our fates if we do not find a cure for this disease known as senescence? Does this not scare the ever loving shit out of you as well? What scares me the most is that he went from smiling to seeing his own death within seconds. My first thought after being scared to see this is that I wish I could have saved him!

Edited by TheFountain, 27 February 2010 - 06:59 AM.

[Marios Kyriazis]

I apologize in advance if this disturbs anyone but I had to, for my own sanity, share this video I bumped into on youtube of a man dying of a heart attack on live television because, quite frankly, it scared the ever loving shit out of me. [...] My first thought after being scared to see this is that I wish I could have saved him!

I did not view this video, as I think the death or suffering of other people is not for 'entertainment'. I see enough death in real life as it is (I work in a hospital). However, firstly a man aged 60 or 70 is not 'old', secondly yes, this is the fate awaiting all of us, if you are lucky. The majority of people die through protracted agony and suffering, that lasts for many years. Many accept this, believing that it forms part of normal life.

Edited by Michael, 02 March 2010 - 08:42 PM.
Trim quotes & vid duplicate

[TheFountain]

I did not view this video, as I think the death or suffering of other people is not for 'entertainment'.

Your response skirts around the fundamental issue which is one of empiricism. Do you think in those final seconds of life this man did not suffer? Even if his suffering was brief, having an unforeseen encounter with the absolute darkness that is death and knowing in those final seconds you may never return, to me, represents the greatest suffering ever. Those who die a protracted death have the opportunity to prepare themselves (as much as is possible). Those who die sudden deaths are just gone from this reality instantly. Lack of preparation constitutes a very disturbing form of suffering that although only lasting briefly may be many magnitudes greater than the protracted form of death. We just do not know because we cannot ask those who die sudden deaths whether or not they have suffered. I am not sure if near death experiences would count.

Edited by Michael, 02 March 2010 - 08:42 PM.
Trim quotes & vid repeat

[Marios Kyriazis]

I dunno. Maybe those who die suddenly, experinece the anguish you describe but have HOPE, that "yes, I am experiencing a very severe episode that can cause my death, but perhaps I will survive it -so I will be OK".... The same is true for the others who suffer from a chronic condition that can cause death (cancer etc). Even people with terminal conditions and impending death have hope that this may not be their final episode and that they may survive for a bit longer. Also, people who have a severe acute condition that can cause death, in my experience, are not 100% conscious and able to think about their condition in those terms you describe. They are usually semi -conscious or completely unconscious, or otherwise unable to rationally think about their impending death.

[VictorBjoerk]

I think all children should be forced to view death in hospitals, especially the most agonizing ones, then afterwards someone should tell them that this death occured unnecessarily because society don't focus on the science that would have prevented it. A strong emotional reaction is necessary so they understand how bad it actually is and not grow up to become another deathist generation.

They should be taught in school that it is just as wrong to let someone die of for example cancer as to put people in concentration camps, the passive acceptance among the general public is what causes the slaughter to roll year after year.

Something that also bothers me is that if a baby has an accident and dies it get's sooo much attention and it's sooooo horrible. But when an old person dies after an unimaginable amount of suffering it's natural and ok, noone even says anything.

Edited by VictorBjoerk, 27 February 2010 - 06:11 PM.

[b0gger]

Something that also bothers me is that if a baby has an accident and dies it get's sooo much attention and it's sooooo horrible. But when an old person dies after an unimaginable amount of suffering it's natural and ok, noone even says anything.

I feel the same. This is one of those medeival barbaric things, most of society yet not recognised about itself.

[nightlight]

I did not view this video, as I think the death or suffering of other people is not for 'entertainment'. I see enough death in real life as it is (I work in a hospital).

Death meditation is in some form a necessary part of enlightenment. The latter transition (also described as awakening of 'cosmic consciousness') is the first step toward rebirth into the genuine immortality (the ancient recipes for immortality, the stuff that actually works) -- the loss of personal 'self' and its transcedence into the universal 'Self'. Or in more modern and practical terms, it is the process of recoding of the localized fragile pattern of brain activity you perceive as 'self' into a larger, more permanent live, intelligent pattern of activity unfolding within the outer social networks (more on these intelligent networks; they are natural distributed self-programming computers, ubiquitous all around us at all levels, in material and abstract realms; see also links at the end of that post).

[TheFountain]

I think all children should be forced to view death in hospitals, especially the most agonizing ones, then afterwards someone should tell them that this death occured unnecessarily because society don't focus on the science that would have prevented it.

This is part of the reason I shared this video. Not as 'entertainment' as someone else so wrongfully suggested. Death is sickening, not entertaining. Although I was shocked at the sheer amount of uncompassionate comments on that video.

A strong emotional reaction is necessary so they understand how bad it actually is and not grow up to become another deathist generation.

Most of the people laughing at that video were probably adolescents and adults who had already been conditioned to accept death as a 'natural' thing. I presume their fear of death contributes greatly to them finding humor in it. My guess is it is a coping mechanism.

Something that also bothers me is that if a baby has an accident and dies it get's sooo much attention and it's sooooo horrible. But when an old person dies after an unimaginable amount of suffering it's natural and ok, noone even says anything.

I think there is a misunderstanding that people who die suddenly do not suffer. I think the fact that their deaths were not expected probably causes a great deal of suffering, but the truth is we do not know because there is no way to measure it. But with that question mark comes the responsibility to raise awareness.

[TheFountain]

I dunno. Maybe those who die suddenly, experinece the anguish you describe but have HOPE, that "yes, I am experiencing a very severe episode that can cause my death, but perhaps I will survive it -so I will be OK".... The same is true for the others who suffer from a chronic condition that can cause death (cancer etc). Even people with terminal conditions and impending death have hope that this may not be their final episode and that they may survive for a bit longer. Also, people who have a severe acute condition that can cause death, in my experience, are not 100% conscious and able to think about their condition in those terms you describe. They are usually semi -conscious or completely unconscious, or otherwise unable to rationally think about their impending death.

But there is no way to gauge how they really feel. The reason I wanted people to watch the video is that it broke my heart to see this man smiling one second and then suddenly look within (and you could see it in his eyes) and see death starring back at him. The fact that you could see that he knew it and his smile for life disappeared instantly is what everyone should see so they become aware of the need for us as a species to cure diseases of the heart and other internal organs. People should die when they want to die, not when a faulty system dictates it. Granted, I know nothing about this man and I am guessing he is in his 60s or 70s and may have had an already existing heart deformity or known heart disease. But this does not take away from the way seeing this made me feel. Sickened and frightened. Despite the fact that many of us here are way younger than him, this could be us some day if medical technology does not advance significantly.

Edited by TheFountain, 27 February 2010 - 10:53 PM.

[tadgh78]

Here's another;

This mans death is also over very quickly. There seems to be about a seconds mental confusion before the final collapse.What I find it striking in this case is that the individual concerned doesn't appear to display any great awareness of his impending death, certainly no terror and there is no obvious sign of acute chest pain either. He appears simply to "faint dead away" or as Keats put it in one poem "swoon to death".

[Shannon Vyff]

When I was a teen my dad had me watch Faces of Death, to scare me into driving safely. I've considered doing that to my kids, bit mean though-its so sad-I still remember various ways people died on it-you can do some searches for the videos, they are still for sale.

My children have seen an elderly woman we were caring for, pass away-it was gentle but good for them. They have volunteered in nursing homes and seen many stages of debilitation. Aging is sad, the loss of information with death is sad but I believe some day humans will have evolved the ability to treat all age related diseases and enhance their bodies--it just will likely not be in my or my children's time.

[Luna]

When I was a teen my dad had me watch Faces of Death, to scare me into driving safely. I've considered doing that to my kids, bit mean though-its so sad-I still remember various ways people died on it-you can do some searches for the videos, they are still for sale.

My children have seen an elderly woman we were caring for, pass away-it was gentle but good for them. They have volunteered in nursing homes and seen many stages of debilitation. Aging is sad, the loss of information with death is sad but I believe some day humans will have evolved the ability to treat all age related diseases and enhance their bodies--it just will likely not be in my or my children's time.

Hopefully it will be in our days, and children days.
@@...

[TheFountain]

Here's another;

[Video: Columbian Congressman dies of a heart attack]

This mans death is also over very quickly. ... He appears simply to "faint dead away" or as Keats put it in one poem "swoon to death".

This made me tear up. Even if he was a corrupt politician it is still sad for multiple reasons. It is very disturbing to see how in both cases the eyes of these men remained opened as if they were holding on as hard as they could, afraid to shut them. Afraid to let the darkness take over. I do not believe people who claim they do not fear death. Maybe well trained Buddhist monks but not 'normal' every day people. Everyone should see this so the worlds consciousness to disease and the need to eliminate them is raised.

Edited by Michael, 02 March 2010 - 08:44 PM.
Trim quote & vid

[Solarclimax]

I think all children should be forced to view death in hospitals, especially the most agonizing ones, then afterwards someone should tell them that this death occured unnecessarily because society don't focus on the science that would have prevented it. A strong emotional reaction is necessary so they understand how bad it actually is and not grow up to become another deathist generation.

They should be taught in school that it is just as wrong to let someone die of for example cancer as to put people in concentration camps, the passive acceptance among the general public is what causes the slaughter to roll year after year.

Something that also bothers me is that if a baby has an accident and dies it get's sooo much attention and it's sooooo horrible. But when an old person dies after an unimaginable amount of suffering it's natural and ok, noone even says anything.

Your views could be seen as extremely harsh an unnecessary, but if we all pull our heads out, it's the truth.

[bacopa]

When I was a teen my dad had me watch Faces of Death, to scare me into driving safely. I've considered doing that to my kids, bit mean though-its so sad-I still remember various ways people died on it-you can do some searches for the videos, they are still for sale.

My children have seen an elderly woman we were caring for, pass away-it was gentle but good for them. They have volunteered in nursing homes and seen many stages of debilitation. Aging is sad, the loss of information with death is sad but I believe some day humans will have evolved the ability to treat all age related diseases and enhance their bodies--it just will likely not be in my or my children's time.

Shannon most of the deaths in Faces of Death are staged. I've read numerous accounts of this before from reputable film sources.

[bacopa]

if this scares us so much it should motivate us all to volunteer our precious time to prolonging life...get involved with imminst's teams! http://www.imminst.o...Teams-f295.html

Edited by dfowler, 02 March 2010 - 12:01 AM.

[TheFountain]

Can anyone identify if this was really a heart attack, cardiac arrest or a stroke? It is still very disturbing to watch.

[Marios Kyriazis]

Can anyone identify if this was really a heart attack, cardiac arrest or a stroke? It is still very disturbing to watch.

Technically speaking, people die from a cardiac arrest, not from a heart attack. The heart attack itself causes the heart to suddenly stop (asystole) or beat extremely fast (ventricular fibrillation) both of which are indeed 'cardiac arrest', resulting in sudden death if not treated immediately. Stroke usually takes a bit longer to develop.

[shifter]

Its a shame youtube has not given this man any dignity in death. Millions of people have watched him die. He was actually quite brilliant.

Only fair you read about him

http://www.indianpad...-at-press-meet/

http://en.wikipedia....i/M._N._Vijayan (says he died of cardiac arrest)


Also I dont think children should be 'forced' to see suffering and death of another human. Keep in mind their minds are still immature and open to desensitisation. It could have the opposite effect of what you intended despite trying to teach them. Besides, this is what pets can be good for. It is much better and easier to understand when something they love and have grown up with have died, then some stranger they dont know.

If they are forced to go to a hospital and watch someone die in agony from cancer, well they may end up hating hospitals and not trusting doctors because the death was 'wrong and un nessessary'.

Keep in mind also people in developing countries around say, Africa have children view death all the time. Yet those same countries can have among the highest corruption.

Can anyone identify if this was really a heart attack, cardiac arrest or a stroke? It is still very disturbing to watch.

[TheFountain]

Can anyone identify if this was really a heart attack, cardiac arrest or a stroke? It is still very disturbing to watch.

Technically speaking, people die from a cardiac arrest, not from a heart attack. The heart attack itself causes the heart to suddenly stop (asystole) or beat extremely fast (ventricular fibrillation) both of which are indeed 'cardiac arrest', resulting in sudden death if not treated immediately. Stroke usually takes a bit longer to develop.

Alot of people are saying it was a stroke, despite the wiki article saying it was cardiac arrest. Some people are even suggesting he was poisoned because he apparently took a sip of water seconds earlier. In either case it is a sad thing despite him being almost 80 years old at the time of his death. I also notice he did not receive immediate treatment. If the people on hand had access to a defibrillator perhaps he would have lived longer.

[TheFountain]

Its a shame youtube has not given this man any dignity in death. Millions of people have watched him die. He was actually quite brilliant.

Only fair you read about him

http://www.indianpad...-at-press-meet/

http://en.wikipedia....i/M._N._Vijayan (says he died of cardiac arrest)


Also I dont think children should be 'forced' to see suffering and death of another human. Keep in mind their minds are still immature and open to desensitisation. It could have the opposite effect of what you intended despite trying to teach them. Besides, this is what pets can be good for. It is much better and easier to understand when something they love and have grown up with have died, then some stranger they dont know.

If they are forced to go to a hospital and watch someone die in agony from cancer, well they may end up hating hospitals and not trusting doctors because the death was 'wrong and un nessessary'.

Keep in mind also people in developing countries around say, Africa have children view death all the time. Yet those same countries can have among the highest corruption.

Can anyone identify if this was really a heart attack, cardiac arrest or a stroke? It is still very disturbing to watch.

I think a certain amount of concerted aggressiveness toward death is necessary to do anything about it. All the scientists who are working in this field have some degree of aggressive assertiveness. You have to have emotion to have motivation. Without which you will just meditate 9 hours a day like monks do, waiting for your physical form to pass into the void. Part of the reason death is so acceptable to most is that there is still widespread belief that there is something waiting for us after this life. Once consciousness is raised to the fact that it is still a question mark maybe things will change. However I think certain 'near death experiences' make one ask further questions. They are, at the very least, strange.

[Connor MacLeod]

Its a shame youtube has not given this man any dignity in death. Millions of people have watched him die. He was actually quite brilliant.

Only fair you read about him

http://www.indianpad...-at-press-meet/

http://en.wikipedia....i/M._N._Vijayan (says he died of cardiac arrest)


Also I dont think children should be 'forced' to see suffering and death of another human. Keep in mind their minds are still immature and open to desensitisation. It could have the opposite effect of what you intended despite trying to teach them. Besides, this is what pets can be good for. It is much better and easier to understand when something they love and have grown up with have died, then some stranger they dont know.

If they are forced to go to a hospital and watch someone die in agony from cancer, well they may end up hating hospitals and not trusting doctors because the death was 'wrong and un nessessary'.

Keep in mind also people in developing countries around say, Africa have children view death all the time. Yet those same countries can have among the highest corruption.

Thanks Shifter.

[Solarclimax]

Its a shame youtube has not given this man any dignity in death. Millions of people have watched him die. He was actually quite brilliant.

Only fair you read about him

http://www.indianpad...-at-press-meet/

http://en.wikipedia....i/M._N._Vijayan (says he died of cardiac arrest)


Also I dont think children should be 'forced' to see suffering and death of another human. Keep in mind their minds are still immature and open to desensitisation. It could have the opposite effect of what you intended despite trying to teach them. Besides, this is what pets can be good for. It is much better and easier to understand when something they love and have grown up with have died, then some stranger they dont know.

If they are forced to go to a hospital and watch someone die in agony from cancer, well they may end up hating hospitals and not trusting doctors because the death was 'wrong and un nessessary'.

Keep in mind also people in developing countries around say, Africa have children view death all the time. Yet those same countries can have among the highest corruption.

Can anyone identify if this was really a heart attack, cardiac arrest or a stroke? It is still very disturbing to watch.

Good points, allthough you can't say high corruption is related to viewing death. I would say more like poverty = crime and corruption, just look at Brasil.

[rollo]

I think all children should be forced to view death in hospitals, especially the most agonizing ones, then afterwards someone should tell them that this death occured unnecessarily because society don't focus on the science that would have prevented it. A strong emotional reaction is necessary so they understand how bad it actually is and not grow up to become another deathist generation.

They should be taught in school that it is just as wrong to let someone die of for example cancer as to put people in concentration camps, the passive acceptance among the general public is what causes the slaughter to roll year after year.

Something that also bothers me is that if a baby has an accident and dies it get's sooo much attention and it's sooooo horrible. But when an old person dies after an unimaginable amount of suffering it's natural and ok, noone even says anything.

Is this what the immortalists think/believe in? All I have to say is WOW.

[sentrysnipe]

Jeez the screen capture of your embedded clip is enough for me not to see it :( I am honestly scared