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Court rules frozen remains of Springs woman should go to Arizona compa


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#1 advancedatheist

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 06:14 PM


http://www.gazette.c...zona-court.html

Court rules frozen remains of Springs woman should go to Arizona company

March 01, 2010 11:05 AM
JOHN C. ENSSLIN
The Gazette

A magistrate in El Paso County Probate Court ruled today that the frozen remains of a deceased 71-year-old Colorado Springs woman should go to an Arizona-based non-profit that has a contract to cryogenically preserve her head.



Magistrate Barbara L. Hughes ruled that Mary Robbins’ last will directs that her body be turned over to the Alcor Life Extension Foundation of Scottsdale, AZ.



Her daughter Darlene Robbins of Pueblo had contested the action, stating that her mother changed her mind about cryogenics while in terrible pain a few days before her Feb. 9 death.



Hughes granted a 72-hour stay of her ruling to allow Robbins to take the case to the Colorado Court of Appeals.



Alcor officials said they are ethically bound to honor the contract that Mary Robbins, a retired nurse, signed in 2006.



Mary Robbins body remains packed in dry ice in a local funeral home pending the outcome of the legal battle.


#2 Forever21

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 06:59 PM

Colorado Springs. Hmmm lemme guess. This daughter wants the rapture for the head.

#3 advancedatheist

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 07:36 PM

Colorado Springs. Hmmm lemme guess. This daughter wants the rapture for the head.


Supposedly at the rapture, the "dead in christ" rise up in transformed bodies first (even ones whose bodies disintegrated long ago through, say, cremation?). So when this miracle occurs, what happens to the bodies of christians in cryonic suspension?

Reference:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NIV) "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

#4 enoonsti

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 07:41 PM

In the comment section, lexiii wrote: "May the wrath of God come down upon the courts and that evil company!" Looks like somebody's having a bad case of the Mondays.

#5 eternaltraveler

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 07:52 PM

It is very important that we retain the right to dispose of our remains as we see fit. This is well beyond cryonics.

Good job Alcor. Hopefully the appeal flops in short order.

#6 advancedatheist

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 07:52 PM

In the comment section, lexiii wrote: "May the wrath of God come down upon the courts and that evil company!" Looks like somebody's having a bad case of the Mondays.


It wouldn't surprise me if people hostile to Alcor (like He Who Must Not Be Named) study this case and similar ones, then publish strategies online to help hostile relatives interfere with an Alcor member's suspension once they get power of attorney over the member for medical reasons.

#7 forever freedom

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 08:08 PM

Anyone that has more knowledge please shed more light at this, but after weeks of her death, isn't the damage to her brain too extensive at this point? Even with ice packed around her head, she died 9th February, she's been dead for 20 days! And it will likely be a few more days, if not more, before she gets preserved. It'll probably be a month in the end.


Anyways, i still hope that Alcor succeeds in preserving her, just so that her mercenary daughter doesn't get her so esteemed money.

Edited by forever freedom, 01 March 2010 - 08:09 PM.


#8 enoonsti

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 08:21 PM

In the comment section, lexiii wrote: "May the wrath of God come down upon the courts and that evil company!" Looks like somebody's having a bad case of the Mondays.


It wouldn't surprise me if people hostile to Alcor (like He Who Must Not Be Named) study this case and similar ones, then publish strategies online to help hostile relatives interfere with an Alcor member's suspension once they get power of attorney over the member for medical reasons.


I was watching a video with Mike Darwin in it, and he was talking about Alcor being shot at by fundamentalists following the Ted Williams case. Damn nutjobs. That compelled me to read "Letter to a Christian Nation" once more :)

#9 eternaltraveler

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 08:59 PM

Even with ice packed around her head


Not ice. Dry ice. Frozen CO2. Minus 78.5°C. Big difference.

She's a straight freeze without cryoprotectant to be sure. But what really matters is how long it took them to get her packed in dry ice and freezing damage.

#10 advancedatheist

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 09:47 PM

I was watching a video with Mike Darwin in it, and he was talking about Alcor being shot at by fundamentalists following the Ted Williams case. Damn nutjobs. That compelled me to read "Letter to a Christian Nation" once more :)


Arizona shows up in surveys as a relatively nonreligious state:

http://www.pewforum....docs/?DocID=504

However, fundamentalist mental patients have a tendency to punch above their weight when they want to cause harm.

#11 Mind

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 09:55 PM

Seems the law worked in favor of cryonics this time around. It is important to make a iron-clad will and cryonics arrangements before you are sick and/or in a diminished mental state.

#12 xlifex

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 10:54 PM

Colorado Probate Court Order in this case (PDF):

http://www.alcor.org.../courtorder.pdf

Read paragraph 21. Chilling......

#13 Mind

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 11:08 PM

Colorado Probate Court Order in this case (PDF):

http://www.alcor.org.../courtorder.pdf

Read paragraph 21. Chilling......


OMG! Thanks for the PDF xlifex. Seems this transpired as most of us thought...interference by a hostile relative. If the court had ruled any other way (based on the evidence), it would have been an immense travesty of justice.

#14 eternaltraveler

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 11:21 PM

Mary's daughter did all she could to take away her mothers last chance at life in exchange for some money.

Nice family.

sickening really.

Edited by eternaltraveler, 01 March 2010 - 11:24 PM.


#15 eternaltraveler

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 11:27 PM

unfortunately from alcor's press release Mary's remains weren't packed in dry ice until 2 days after her death. I hope she was at least packed in wet ice for at least a large portion of the time before this?

#16 enoonsti

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 12:03 AM

Colorado Probate Court Order in this case (PDF):

http://www.alcor.org.../courtorder.pdf

Read paragraph 21. Chilling......




:)




...





:)



...


;)

Edited by enoonsti, 02 March 2010 - 12:05 AM.


#17 enoonsti

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 01:28 AM

Sometimes in life, you come across an online commenter that you just want to "pull a Samara" on. For those who are unaware of what "pulling a Samara" entails, please watch the following video:



With that in mind, lexiii just left another comment that is borderline masterpiece. Its most poetic moment occurs when she discusses organ donations. It's located here, but I've reproduced the whole thing below for your convenience:


Tony, I disagree with you about the daughter being greedy. Have you ever seen a loved one die of cancer? They're in horrible pain - pain that is so bad words can't describe it.

This cryonics company requires that people who want to be frozen DO NOT take pain meds. That's torturous! That woman couldn't take that any more and changed her mind so she could have pain medications.

Plus, the hospice doesn't go along with the cryonics show, and rightly so! These idiots are exploiting these people in the name of science!

And while it was nice of them to get up there and offer to do this without the money, it wasn't nice of them to go against the woman's final wishes. It's obvious what her intent was, she decided to sign the money over elsewhere so she could be put on pain medications to ease her suffering. That stupid company should have realized this and honored the woman's last wishes - that is to die with dignity and without any more suffering than she absolutely had to go through, and to honor the womans last wishes made AFTER she signed the previous documents.

Visit that company's website and read their play by play story depicting how they manipulate doctors, nurses and lawyers, and come back here and tell me that they really are interested in that woman's last wishes. They're not. They're interested in their own interests, no one else's.

Given the massive amount of manipulating they do, I wouldn't put it past them to have manipulated this woman into signing documents giving them her head in the first place.

Who regulates these companies and makes sure they're really doing what they're claiming and not using those people for other scientific research?

Plus, as anti establishment as you are, you should get a real kick out of the knowledge that the US Government funds these "mad scientists". (That's a loose and sarcastic term, but what they're doing is nothing less than mad science and it's downright evil.)

There are enough people in this world who might be interested in what these frauds are doing, they shouldn't have fought over the head of the deceased like that. That's disrespectful, it's tacky, and it's just gross. It's also mutilation of a corpse, which is illegal under Colorado Law. But then again so is organ doning, except when they take your organs you're not really dead and now surgical nurses are stepping forward and telling us that organ donors can feel their organs being removed from them and they "flop around" in pain as the organs are being removed. That's because they're removing organs from live people, not dead ones.

For this reason, no one in my family are organ donors. No exceptions. When we die our organs die with us, no one else gets 'em.

We don't want to have to deal with idiots taking us to court fighting over body parts, for freaking sake. How morbid and grotesque can people be?! Disgusting is too nice of a word to describe Alcor.



#18 niner

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 01:42 AM

This cryonics company requires that people who want to be frozen DO NOT take pain meds. That's torturous! That woman couldn't take that any more and changed her mind so she could have pain medications.

No pain meds? Is this true? Why in the world would this be the case? I've been on enough pain meds to kill a horse and it didn't hurt me. (much...) Are we supposed to believe that the super-advanced nanotech miracle science that can repair freezing damage and everything else that's wrong with these people is going to have a problem with a little fentanyl?

WTF?

#19 xlifex

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 01:58 AM

No pain meds? Is this true? Why in the world would this be the case? I've been on enough pain meds to kill a horse and it didn't hurt me. (much...) Are we supposed to believe that the super-advanced nanotech miracle science that can repair freezing damage and everything else that's wrong with these people is going to have a problem with a little fentanyl?

WTF?


Of course this is not true. Some people just make up things to hurt cryonics organizations.

#20 eternaltraveler

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 02:29 AM

Is this true?


No.

#21 niner

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 03:12 AM

No pain meds? Is this true? Why in the world would this be the case? I've been on enough pain meds to kill a horse and it didn't hurt me. (much...) Are we supposed to believe that the super-advanced nanotech miracle science that can repair freezing damage and everything else that's wrong with these people is going to have a problem with a little fentanyl?

WTF?

Of course this is not true. Some people just make up things to hurt cryonics organizations.

Jerks. I dislike liars. It didn't make sense, although Bill O'Rights refused pain medication even though by all accounts he was writhing in pain. Ben Best seems to be in favor of the no pain meds route as well. Nice comment by ET at the Colorado Springs Gazette, source of the lexiii quote.

#22 Luke Parrish

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 05:54 AM

We don't have the ability to eat from the tree of life, and even if we could, why should we with things so bad? Things are so bad now, I'd hate to see how bad they are in a couple of hundred years! And this world may not even be here any more, chances are mankind will have blown it up by then with "mad science" because idiots just can't leave well enough alone.


People think like this in real life?

Perhaps his definition of "bad" is "different".

#23 enoonsti

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 07:39 PM

We don't have the ability to eat from the tree of life, and even if we could, why should we with things so bad? Things are so bad now, I'd hate to see how bad they are in a couple of hundred years! And this world may not even be here any more, chances are mankind will have blown it up by then with "mad science" because idiots just can't leave well enough alone.


People think like this in real life?

Perhaps his definition of "bad" is "different".


Posted Image





I think this should be the new logo for Imminst.

Edited by enoonsti, 02 March 2010 - 07:47 PM.


#24 thughes

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 08:45 PM

evil-lexiii is still going on if someone wants to disabuse her/him further:

First, they admitted it was part of their protocol and were willing to forgo this for the sake of preserving the woman's head anyway. It's a main factor in this case, so yes, it is true.

And no, they're not trying to give Mary a slight chance at life, they are frauds and they know it. They know that there is no way right now that this will work and they know they have no basis for making it work in the future because current procedures, by then, will be far outdated and chances are won't work by then. And they know this.

Next, if they cared about Mary, they wouldn't have engaged in such a battle in the first darned place.
They'd have honored her final wishes to die in peace and comfort and to be buried or cremated since she changed her mind at the last minute.


Since I'm Canadian, I feel uncomfortable commenting on an American court case. But, its plain to me that final wishes made under extreme duress and using false information (as admitted by Ms. Robbins) provided by people in a position of trust, should be extremely suspect.

- Tracy

Edited by thughes, 02 March 2010 - 08:48 PM.


#25 advancedatheist

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 09:08 PM

This cryonics company requires that people who want to be frozen DO NOT take pain meds. That's torturous! That woman couldn't take that any more and changed her mind so she could have pain medications.

No pain meds? Is this true? Why in the world would this be the case? I've been on enough pain meds to kill a horse and it didn't hurt me. (much...) Are we supposed to believe that the super-advanced nanotech miracle science that can repair freezing damage and everything else that's wrong with these people is going to have a problem with a little fentanyl?

WTF?


Cryonics-haters can't get their story straight. Either Alcor tells patients not to take pain meds; or else it administers them excessively to hasten the patients' deaths.

#26 eternaltraveler

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 11:40 PM

Since I'm Canadian, I feel uncomfortable commenting on an American court case


why? I'd have no problem commenting on a canadian court case :)

#27 TheFountain

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 11:41 PM

Oh so there is a justice system after all.




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