22 replies to this topic

[tunt01]

ive been searching around, because i know this has been discussed a million times before, but i can't seem to find a good answer on the right ratio of omega-3/omega-6 fats. anyone got a link or quick answer? thx.

[Blue]

You can find various national recommendations here:
http://lpi.oregonsta...recommendations

International Society for the Study of Fatty Acids and Lipids 2004
"A. Specific recommendations about the intake of polyunsaturates (PUFA):

1.

An adequate linoleic acid (LA) intake : 2 energy %
2.

A healthy intake of a-linolenic acid (ALA): 0.7 energy %
3.

For cardiovascular health, a minimum intake of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) combined, of: 500 mg/d.

B. A recognition that there may be a healthy upper limit to the intake of LA"
http://www.issfal.or...icy-statement-3

"The statement declares that the evidence available demonstrates that for most people under modern dietary conditions, there is no nutritionally significant conversion of ALA to EPA or more especially DHA. This statement was published in 2009."
http://www.issfal.or...ents-mainmenu-9

Recommendations of Others
http://www.issfal.or...=...2&Itemid=31

Edited by Blue, 04 March 2010 - 09:12 PM.

[Skötkonung]

Different illnesses respond favorably to different ratios.

The importance of the ratio of omega-6/omega-3 essential fatty acids
"Several sources of information suggest that human beings evolved on a diet with a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 essential fatty acids (EFA) of 1 whereas in Western diets the ratio is 15/1–16.7/1. Western diets are deficient in omega-3 fatty acids, and have excessive amounts of omega-6 fatty acids compared with the diet on which human beings evolved and their genetic patterns were established. Excessive amounts of omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and a very high omega-6/omega-3 ratio, as is found in today's Western diets, promote the pathogenesis of many diseases, including cardiovascular disease, cancer, and inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, whereas increased levels of omega-3 PUFA (a low omega-6/omega-3 ratio) exert suppressive effects. In the secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease, a ratio of 4/1 was associated with a 70% decrease in total mortality. A ratio of 2.5/1 reduced rectal cell proliferation in patients with colorectal cancer, whereas a ratio of 4/1 with the same amount of omega-3 PUFA had no effect. The lower omega-6/omega-3 ratio in women with breast cancer was associated with decreased risk. A ratio of 2–3/1 suppressed inflammation in patients with rheumatoid arthritis, and a ratio of 5/1 had a beneficial effect on patients with asthma, whereas a ratio of 10/1 had adverse consequences. These studies indicate that the optimal ratio may vary with the disease under consideration. This is consistent with the fact that chronic diseases are multigenic and multifactorial. Therefore, it is quite possible that the therapeutic dose of omega-3 fatty acids will depend on the degree of severity of disease resulting from the genetic predisposition. A lower ratio of omega-6/omega-3 fatty acids is more desirable in reducing the risk of many of the chronic diseases of high prevalence in Western societies, as well as in the developing countries, that are being exported to the rest of the world."

Edited by Skotkonung, 04 March 2010 - 09:45 PM.

[tunt01]

im getting between 2:1 and 3:1 n-6 : n-3 ratio, based on the last few days of eating. the only "supplement" is basically ground flaxseed (ie. no fish oil). maybe i'l take a gram or two of fish oil.

thx for the posts/effort skot & blue.

[Skötkonung]

im getting between 2:1 and 3:1 n-6 : n-3 ratio, based on the last few days of eating. the only "supplement" is basically ground flaxseed (ie. no fish oil). maybe i'l take a gram or two of fish oil.

thx for the posts/effort skot & blue.

I would be careful when calculating your ratio using flax. Research has shown that young women convert 21% of ALA to EPA (compared to 8% in men) and 9% to DHA (compared to 0-4% in men). The difference, apparently, is linked to estrogen levels.

[tunt01]

is it preferably to obtain omega-3 from fish oil then?

[Skötkonung]

is it preferably to obtain omega-3 from fish oil then?

Yeah, that is my understanding. A good product should be filtered for any impurities. You said you were vegan / vegetarian, right? There are some new products that use algae to synthesize EPA / DHA: http://www.v-pure.com/

[tunt01]

is it preferably to obtain omega-3 from fish oil then?

Yeah, that is my understanding. A good product should be filtered for any impurities. You said you were vegan / vegetarian, right? There are some new products that use algae to synthesize EPA / DHA: http://www.v-pure.com/

nah i'm "near" vegetarian. i do eat fish, some cheese now and then. just lower protein in-take (1-1.2 g/kg). thats a good site tho, thx.

[Ethan Snell]

Your ratio sounds pretty good. I would echo what Skotkonung said. The body needs to convert ELA into EPA and DHA. The efficiency of conversion differs from individual to individual but it is generally very poor. If you’re not a vegan I’d suggest you go for pharmaceutical grade fish oil supplements — a product like Triple Strength Omega-3. I like this one because it has an enteric coated – avoids those nasty fishy after-burps. But there are others – pharmaceutical grade is best since it has the highest purity and potency of EPA and DHA.
Edit: Commercial link removed

Edited by niner, 11 March 2010 - 02:43 AM.

[ajnast4r]

is it preferably to obtain omega-3 from fish oil then?

you should obtain n3 from mixed sources...

You said you were vegan / vegetarian, right? There are some new products that use algae to synthesize EPA / DHA: http://www.v-pure.com/

i actually use v-pure and have been pretty happy with it... its moderately priced at ~15$ per month and has almost no fishy smell/taste.

i noticed a significant improvement in my mood & an unbelievable improvement in my memory about a week after taking 2 capsules per day... and I had been using ALA/SDA regularly for years.

[Blue]

V-pure 2 capsules:
Eicosapentaenoic (EPA) 50mg
Docosahexaenoic (DHA) 350mg

In ordinary fish oil there is 1.5 times more EPA than DHA. Not sure if there are any studies regarding if this is better/worse. Almost all studies are on ordinary fish oil.

Edited by Blue, 10 March 2010 - 06:13 PM.

[nameless]

V-pure looks interesting, but as Blue mentioned, the actual omega 3 content is much lower than fish oil. Are there any differences regarding absorption of omega 3s if taken in algae form vs fish oil?

If no, and not a vegetarian, it'd seem to make more sense to just take fish oil, as it's a lot cheaper.

The flax-ala conversion thing I've found confusing, as when people say they have an omega 3/6 ratio of <whatever>, how do they know what it actually is, without knowing how well ala is converting to omega 3s in their body?

If anyone is interested and has decent insurance, there is also a blood test you can get to measure your actual omega serum levels (and other fats too). Mayo does it, so I think most insurances should cover it.

[oehaut]

V-pure 2 capsules:
Eicosapentaenoic (EPA) 50mg
Docosahexaenoic (DHA) 350mg

In ordinary fish oil there is 1.5 times more EPA than DHA. Not sure if there are any studies regarding if this is better/worse. Almost all studies are on ordinary fish oil.

MR was saying that DHA can be toxic to the mitochondrie wasn't he? There was no direct evidence of this but I think this is why he advocate to take no fish oil. Too much DHA. I read this some time ago tho. Maybe he updated his view on that.

Here is the post.

http://www.crsociety...9335#msg-119335

Quite old (2001) so maybe he updated.

Edited by oehaut, 10 March 2010 - 09:08 PM.

[Logan]

Chia Seed is supposed to have the ideal ratio.

[Blue]

Strange argument. DHA is an essential nutrient so you must have it. Maybe you should not have more than the essential requirement but you cannot go lower. ALA is not an essential nutrient itself. If you do want to minimize DHA it seems to me that you should definitely take DHA itself. Since, because conversion rate of ALA to DHA is uncertain, you must have a large safety margin of ALA intake to be fairly sure that you do get at least the essential requirement of DHA, so very likely you will get more DHA than this.

[tunt01]

MR was saying that DHA can be toxic to the mitochondrie wasn't he? There was no direct evidence of this but I think this is why he advocate to take no fish oil. Too much DHA. I read this some time ago tho. Maybe he updated his view on that.

Here is the post.

http://www.crsociety...9335#msg-119335

Quite old (2001) so maybe he updated.

interesting, thanks. i was wondering why he supplemented no fish oil. it really makes me wonder what his daily diet looks like, because his CRON-o-meter figures are very impressive, both n-3/n-6 ratio and total vitamin in-take. i tend to come up slightly short on some vitamins (typically zinc), but his are all like 150%+ of RDI. maybe he is just putting away tons of kale or something, but the n-3/n-6 ratio makes me wonder further.

[oehaut]

Strange argument. DHA is an essential nutrient so you must have it. Maybe you should not have more than the essential requirement but you cannot go lower. ALA is not an essential nutrient itself. If you do want to minimize DHA it seems to me that you should definitely take DHA itself. Since, because conversion rate of ALA to DHA is uncertain, you must have a large safety margin of ALA intake to be fairly sure that you do get at least the essential requirement of DHA, so very likely you will get more DHA than this.

Well, we'd need MR to explain further. I'm clueless on this issue I think he makes his points quite clear in the post tho.

[Annan]

Chia Seed is supposed to have the ideal ratio.

Which, for the curios, is:

Total Omega-3 fatty acids: 175mg/g
Total Omega-6 fatty acids: 57mg/g

[source]

[APBT]

SKOT,

Since you have an ideal n-6 to n-3 ratio (2-1:1, as posted in another thread), do you know the breakdown of your n-3 consumption. That is, ALA/EPA/DHA?

Also, how many total grams of n-3 do you consume on average daily? Do you supplement EPA/DHA, or obtain them strictly via diet?

Thanks-

[APBT]

I stumbled onto a seed (looks like a nut though) that has a favorable n-3 to n-6 ratio. It's called Sacha Inchi, from Peru.

A one ounce serving contains 6g of n-3, 5g of n-6 and 1g of n-9.

Here's a link to the company http://www.terramazon.com/

Here's a link to an on-line purchase source http://www.healthygo...;products_id=69

They are also available at some Whole Foods stores.

[Skötkonung]

SKOT,

Since you have an ideal n-6 to n-3 ratio (2-1:1, as posted in another thread), do you know the breakdown of your n-3 consumption. That is, ALA/EPA/DHA?

Also, how many total grams of n-3 do you consume on average daily? Do you supplement EPA/DHA, or obtain them strictly via diet?

Thanks-

I don't have an exact breakdown, but I surmise my ALA is somewhat comparatively low given that I don't consume grains or nuts with much frequency. Most of my n-3 comes from pastured dairy and meat, and fish.

http://www.foodgraph...d/grassfed.html

[APBT]

I don't have an exact breakdown, but I surmise my ALA is somewhat comparatively low given that I don't consume grains or nuts with much frequency. Most of my n-3 comes from pastured dairy and meat, and fish.

http://www.foodgraph...d/grassfed.html

Thanks for the reply. I did not realize the big difference between grass fed and "conventionally" fed beef, regarding n-3 content.

I found this ranch that sells their own grass fed beef on-line. Are you familar with them? Do they look decent?

EEL RIVER ORGANIC BEEF www.eelriverorganicbeef.com

[Mind]

Might as revive an old thread, which shows LongeCity members are way ahead of the curve when it come to health and longevity.

 

Dr Mercola has finally gotten a comprehensive paper peer-reviewed and published about the dangers of consuming too much linoleic acid (LA, an omega 6 fat).

 

The SAD diet is super sad, because it is overloaded with gargantuan amounts of LA. Not only are Americans sedentary and overweight, but they are consuming some of the worst foods on the planet. Even many "healthy" organic packaged foods are loaded with LA. Is it any surprise that Americans are some of the least healthy people on the planet.

 

I think the only reason life expectancy is not crashing in the US is because we have a whole host of pharmaceutical "bandaid"-type products that keep people barely alive for the last few years of their lives (without curing anything). I am amazed that people in the US still live to over 70 on average.

 

I am sad about this because I eat too much LA - even though it is many times lower than what most people consume. My problem is that I eat too many nuts. I collect wild butternuts and black walnuts. It is a great free source of nuts and they are healthy, however, eat too many and you end up with too much LA.