42 replies to this topic

[wacky]

Hello,

I have an exam coming up on June and because I need to pass, I was looking for some help in nootropic supplements I need to remember every little detail on those books.

So heres my shopping list:
Piracetam, Primaforce
CDP Choline, Jarrow Formulas (or would Alpha GPC be better?)
Omega-3 Fish & Flax Oil, Natural Factors
L-Tyrosine, Now Foods
Vinpocetine, Source Naturals
Rhodiola, Now Foods
Ashwagandha, Now Foods
Bacopa Extract, Planetary Herbals
Melatonin, Now Foods

I'm also considering Hydergine and/or Pyritinol but theyre a bit costly.

Anything to add/remove, or some other thoughts?

Edit: Forgot to say that I'm on ketogenic/low-carb diet if that matters.

Edited by wacky, 08 March 2010 - 11:59 PM.

[Zoroaster]

I would say that pyritinol and hydergine are both VERY effective and should definitely be added to your stack. In fact, if cost is an issue I would drop Vinpocetine, bacopa, ashwaghanda, L-tyrosine, and rhodiolia in favor of those two. Ashwaghanda is an anxiolytic but won't do anything for cognition. Rhodiola gives a nice mild energy boost but it's nootropic effects are minimal. Bacopa's effects are nice but mild and don't kick in for about a month or so. And vinpocetine is just crap in my opinion. In fact I would drop it either way. The research is pretty spotty on vinpo and it can be dangerous for some people.

I'm in a similar situation to you right now. I'm studying for my medical licensing exam and need to memorize a ridiculous amount of material. I've settled on piracetam, alpha-gpc choline, centrophenoxine, pyritinol, and hydergine as my daily stack and its working quite well.

[nito]

Regarding your choline. The jarrow foruma is sold on iherb as well as the life extension one. They both contain the same amount of pills and are both at 250mg a bottle. Despite this the life extension cost almost 10 bucks more. I on't get it! The jarrow one did nada for me, maybe the life extension is the real one considering its price!

[Lufega]

Quercetin/Rutin combo helps me concentrate very well. I've give this combo to other people and they claim to be able to read twice the normal amount of material.

Other than, I think methylene blue and 1 cup a day of wild blueberries will help absorb and integrate information faster.

[maxwatt]

adrafinil or modafinal, improve short term and working memory via NMDA receptors. Helps with memorization.

Ampakines are helpful for memory, probably by AMPA receptor activation, though this is weak; these include the racetams such as piracetam and aniracetam. I find aniracetam the most effective of the ones I have tried.

Omega-3 (EPA) and choline help. Most of the herbs give inconsistent results perhaps due to natural variations in composition or placebo effect. But then offshore drug purchases are sometimes counterfeit.

[wacky]

Thanks for the answers

Here's an adjusted list:
Piracetam, Primaforce
CDP Choline, Jarrow Formulas (or would Alpha GPC be better?)
Omega-3 Fish & Flax Oil, Natural Factors
L-Tyrosine, Now Foods
Hydergine
Pyritinol

Also blueberries as I have those on my freezer
I dropped melatonin (after reading about its testosterone-lowering effects) and all the herbs.

Should I add centrophenoxine? I found that for a reasonable price.
I just hope the latter two on the list will pass the customs..Well that goes for piracetam also.

Modafinil or adrafinil would be cool, but too costly with the risk of being caught on customs.

[nito]

Thanks for the answers

Here's an adjusted list:
Piracetam, Primaforce
CDP Choline, Jarrow Formulas (or would Alpha GPC be better?)
Omega-3 Fish & Flax Oil, Natural Factors
L-Tyrosine, Now Foods
Hydergine
Pyritinol

Also blueberries as I have those on my freezer
I dropped melatonin (after reading about its testosterone-lowering effects) and all the herbs.

Should I add centrophenoxine? I found that for a reasonable price.
I just hope the latter two on the list will pass the customs..Well that goes for piracetam also.

Modafinil or adrafinil would be cool, but too costly with the risk of being caught on customs.

What's your source for centro that you found cheap, if you don't min sharing please.

[wacky]

qhi.

[Zoroaster]

Thanks for the answers

Here's an adjusted list:
Piracetam, Primaforce
CDP Choline, Jarrow Formulas (or would Alpha GPC be better?)
Omega-3 Fish & Flax Oil, Natural Factors
L-Tyrosine, Now Foods
Hydergine
Pyritinol

Also blueberries as I have those on my freezer
I dropped melatonin (after reading about its testosterone-lowering effects) and all the herbs.

Should I add centrophenoxine? I found that for a reasonable price.
I just hope the latter two on the list will pass the customs..Well that goes for piracetam also.

Modafinil or adrafinil would be cool, but too costly with the risk of being caught on customs.

I would say that CDP choline probably would be better than Alpha GPC. I'm only using Alpha because it's what I have on hand. I've used both and to tell you the truth I haven't noticed a huge difference, but there seems to be more research behind CDP. And if you can find a good deal on centro then you might as well throw it in. It does have a noticeable effect on me and I've never heard of anyone having a bad experience with it. It's not amazing though. Once again I'm only taking it now because I have a bunch of it I need to use. I don't know that I'd consider it a necessity.

[wacky]

Ok so I ordered the following:

Piracetam, Primaforce (Netrition) 2g 2x day
CDP Choline, Healthy Origins (iHerb) 250mg-500mg per day
Omega-3 Fish Oil, Now Foods (iHerb) 4 tabs 2x day containing 2,72g of omega-3 (1,44g epa/0,92g dha)
L-Tyrosine, Now Foods (iHerb) Maybe taking twice a week.
Bacopa Extract, Planetary Herbals (iHerb) 225mg-450mg per day
Pyritinol, Cognitive Nutrition (American Nutrition) 400mg per day

What do you think about the dosage?
I may order centrophenoxine later, but not sure yet.
Hydergine is yet to be ordered, but does anyone know a cheaper place than qhi? If there's none, is Hydergine worth 50€? Does qhi ship from Europe?

Lufega mentioned methylene blue, is it okay to order something from ebay thats meant to be used in aquariums?

[Solarclimax]

Ok so I ordered the following:

Piracetam, Primaforce (Netrition) 2g 2x day
CDP Choline, Healthy Origins (iHerb) 250mg-500mg per day
Omega-3 Fish Oil, Now Foods (iHerb) 4 tabs 2x day containing 2,72g of omega-3 (1,44g epa/0,92g dha)
L-Tyrosine, Now Foods (iHerb) Maybe taking twice a week.
Bacopa Extract, Planetary Herbals (iHerb) 225mg-450mg per day
Pyritinol, Cognitive Nutrition (American Nutrition) 400mg per day

What do you think about the dosage?
I may order centrophenoxine later, but not sure yet.
Hydergine is yet to be ordered, but does anyone know a cheaper place than qhi? If there's none, is Hydergine worth 50€? Does qhi ship from Europe?

Lufega mentioned methylene blue, is it okay to order something from ebay thats meant to be used in aquariums?

I would take 750 - 1000mg choline a day plus 1g bacopa (because bmud basically said so, lol) is that fish oil intake not a bit high ? Don't expect any miracles, try hard at what you do.

Edited by Solarclimax, 11 March 2010 - 11:32 PM.

[tlm884]

Ok so I ordered the following:

Piracetam, Primaforce (Netrition) 2g 2x day
CDP Choline, Healthy Origins (iHerb) 250mg-500mg per day
Omega-3 Fish Oil, Now Foods (iHerb) 4 tabs 2x day containing 2,72g of omega-3 (1,44g epa/0,92g dha)
L-Tyrosine, Now Foods (iHerb) Maybe taking twice a week.
Bacopa Extract, Planetary Herbals (iHerb) 225mg-450mg per day
Pyritinol, Cognitive Nutrition (American Nutrition) 400mg per day

What do you think about the dosage?
I may order centrophenoxine later, but not sure yet.
Hydergine is yet to be ordered, but does anyone know a cheaper place than qhi? If there's none, is Hydergine worth 50€? Does qhi ship from Europe?

Lufega mentioned methylene blue, is it okay to order something from ebay thats meant to be used in aquariums?

I would take 750 - 1000mg choline a day plus 1g bacopa (because bmud basically said so, lol) is that fish oil intake not a bit high ? Don't expect any miracles, try hard at what you do.

Nootropics are only going to be effective if you are learning the material in an effective manner. If you arent absorbing the material then the nootropics will be worthless. I reccomend using the SQ3R method for studying. Quite simple yet VERY effective. You can google it and find lots of resources on it. One website that explains it is http://www.studygs.net/texred2.htm

[Rhcan09]

I'm surprised nobody else has jumped on this one - but GET OFF the ketogenic diet!

The basic premise of that diet, is that you starve your body of carbs and sugar. Low blood sugar is ABSOLUTELY going to impair your learning and your cognitive function. Here are just a few articles:
http://www.sciencebl...ills-17983.html
http://www.scienceda...00125173444.htm

But research for yourself. Just plug "low carb cognitive" or "low carb brain" into Google. I think it is fairly universally accepted that low carb diets impair cognitive function.

I know it sucks - because the diet works fairly well - but I would suggest you look into a "Low GI" diet as an alternative. The primary difference being that you can still have fruit and some good carbs - enough to keep your blood sugar levels stable without starving your brain. You'll still loose weight, probably a bit slower, but it will be ultimately probably be more permanent in the long run anyway - and of course the most important thing, is that your brain will work better.

[Zoroaster]

Yeah that fish oil dose seems a bit high. Not that it will hurt you, but you can probably cut it in half, make it last longer, and get the same effect. And I second the recommendation to up your Bacopa to about a gram. I've seen a few studies that recommend that amount and that was the sweet spot for me. Just make sure to take it at night as it can be a bit sedating. I got my hydergine pretty cheap from nubrain but it looks like their price has gone up since I last used them. I don't think I'd get it if it were that much. But I'm pretty cheap. You could consider sulbutiamine as an alternative.

[tlm884]

Yeah that fish oil dose seems a bit high. Not that it will hurt you, but you can probably cut it in half, make it last longer, and get the same effect. And I second the recommendation to up your Bacopa to about a gram. I've seen a few studies that recommend that amount and that was the sweet spot for me. Just make sure to take it at night as it can be a bit sedating. I got my hydergine pretty cheap from nubrain but it looks like their price has gone up since I last used them. I don't think I'd get it if it were that much. But I'm pretty cheap. You could consider sulbutiamine as an alternative.

I second the sulbutamine. Its great. Tastes HORRID tho

[Solarclimax]

Yeah that fish oil dose seems a bit high. Not that it will hurt you, but you can probably cut it in half, make it last longer, and get the same effect. And I second the recommendation to up your Bacopa to about a gram. I've seen a few studies that recommend that amount and that was the sweet spot for me. Just make sure to take it at night as it can be a bit sedating. I got my hydergine pretty cheap from nubrain but it looks like their price has gone up since I last used them. I don't think I'd get it if it were that much. But I'm pretty cheap. You could consider sulbutiamine as an alternative.

I second the sulbutamine. Its great. Tastes HORRID tho

I go on fitness forums sometimes and hear about people moaning because their protein tastes like crap, i think mine tastes nice and usually even sweet, bitter things don't bother me, but i second what's said about this stuff. I have never tasted horse shit but i bet it tastes something like sulbutiamine.

Good points there Zoroaster, do you think hydergine is better than sulbutiamine ?

Edited by Solarclimax, 13 March 2010 - 10:47 PM.

[Zoroaster]

I go on fitness forums sometimes and hear about people moaning because their protein tastes like crap, i think mine tastes nice and usually even sweet, bitter things don't bother me, but i second what's said about this stuff. I have never tasted horse shit but i bet it tastes something like sulbutiamine.

Good points there Zoroaster, do you think hydergine is better than sulbutiamine ?

I've never taken sulbutiamine powder straight. Most nootropics are not very tasty. I have a cap-m-quick and bags of empty gelcaps and I just cap powders myself. It works really well. Anyway, I think sulbutiamine and hydergine are pretty different. Sulbutiamine is quite stimulating, and doesn't seem to affect memory as much as it does thinking speed and verbal fluidity. At least for me. The research behind hydergine as a memory booster in combination with piracetam is pretty solid. So I guess it depends on what you're going for. Honestly I would say that I've felt more from sulbutiamine, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better.

[tlm884]

I go on fitness forums sometimes and hear about people moaning because their protein tastes like crap, i think mine tastes nice and usually even sweet, bitter things don't bother me, but i second what's said about this stuff. I have never tasted horse shit but i bet it tastes something like sulbutiamine.

Good points there Zoroaster, do you think hydergine is better than sulbutiamine ?

I've never taken sulbutiamine powder straight. Most nootropics are not very tasty. I have a cap-m-quick and bags of empty gelcaps and I just cap powders myself. It works really well. Anyway, I think sulbutiamine and hydergine are pretty different. Sulbutiamine is quite stimulating, and doesn't seem to affect memory as much as it does thinking speed and verbal fluidity. At least for me. The research behind hydergine as a memory booster in combination with piracetam is pretty solid. So I guess it depends on what you're going for. Honestly I would say that I've felt more from sulbutiamine, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better.

Cap-m-quick is the way to go. Do you weigh out the powders first? What size of caps do you use?

[RockandSoul]

I go on fitness forums sometimes and hear about people moaning because their protein tastes like crap, i think mine tastes nice and usually even sweet, bitter things don't bother me, but i second what's said about this stuff. I have never tasted horse shit but i bet it tastes something like sulbutiamine.

Good points there Zoroaster, do you think hydergine is better than sulbutiamine ?

I've never taken sulbutiamine powder straight. Most nootropics are not very tasty. I have a cap-m-quick and bags of empty gelcaps and I just cap powders myself. It works really well. Anyway, I think sulbutiamine and hydergine are pretty different. Sulbutiamine is quite stimulating, and doesn't seem to affect memory as much as it does thinking speed and verbal fluidity. At least for me. The research behind hydergine as a memory booster in combination with piracetam is pretty solid. So I guess it depends on what you're going for. Honestly I would say that I've felt more from sulbutiamine, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better.

Cap-m-quick is the way to go. Do you weigh out the powders first? What size of caps do you use?

This is a great thread. I need some help pronto so this might help. I am reading things but am so good at forgetting and I'm not sure why.

If I could remember more of what I read, I'd be golden. Have to look at that study method.

My job stress is through the roof so sure that's part of it. That and the long hours. So when its time to study I'm fatigued and burned out. Not a good combo.

[Zoroaster]

Cap-m-quick is the way to go. Do you weigh out the powders first? What size of caps do you use?

I've been using 00's lately because I often share the supplements I make with others and that size is pretty familiar for most people. When I make them for myself I'll sometimes use 000 since swallowing large pills doesn't bother me. I generally get my caps from Capsuline (http://www.capsuline.com/)

If I'm working with a supplement with a narrow dosage window like 1,3 dimethylamylamine or something then I'll weigh it out. But for most supplements I generally just use the volume/density information provided on the packaging to be honest. Most packaging will tell you that 1/2 or 1/4 tsp = so many milligrams of product. So I'll use that to convert and then just measure by volume. It's probably a bit rough, but for most of the supplements I take it's not a very big deal if the dose is off by tens of milligrams.

Edited by Zoroaster, 15 March 2010 - 12:54 AM.

[tlm884]

I go on fitness forums sometimes and hear about people moaning because their protein tastes like crap, i think mine tastes nice and usually even sweet, bitter things don't bother me, but i second what's said about this stuff. I have never tasted horse shit but i bet it tastes something like sulbutiamine.

Good points there Zoroaster, do you think hydergine is better than sulbutiamine ?

I've never taken sulbutiamine powder straight. Most nootropics are not very tasty. I have a cap-m-quick and bags of empty gelcaps and I just cap powders myself. It works really well. Anyway, I think sulbutiamine and hydergine are pretty different. Sulbutiamine is quite stimulating, and doesn't seem to affect memory as much as it does thinking speed and verbal fluidity. At least for me. The research behind hydergine as a memory booster in combination with piracetam is pretty solid. So I guess it depends on what you're going for. Honestly I would say that I've felt more from sulbutiamine, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better.

Cap-m-quick is the way to go. Do you weigh out the powders first? What size of caps do you use?

This is a great thread. I need some help pronto so this might help. I am reading things but am so good at forgetting and I'm not sure why.

If I could remember more of what I read, I'd be golden. Have to look at that study method.

My job stress is through the roof so sure that's part of it. That and the long hours. So when its time to study I'm fatigued and burned out. Not a good combo.

This study method worked wonders for me. After doing everything it had suggested I do I clearly remember everything I learned for a long time. It was effective as soon as I started using it and I seen results overnight. SQ3R is now the tool of choice for myself.

[tlm884]

Cap-m-quick is the way to go. Do you weigh out the powders first? What size of caps do you use?

I've been using 00's lately because I often share the supplements I make with others and that size is pretty familiar for most people. When I make them for myself I'll sometimes use 000 since swallowing large pills doesn't bother me. I generally get my caps from Capsuline (http://www.capsuline.com/)

If I'm working with a supplement with a narrow dosage window like 1,3 dimethylamylamine or something then I'll weigh it out. But for most supplements I generally just use the volume/density information provided on the packaging to be honest. Most packaging will tell you that 1/2 or 1/4 tsp = so many milligrams of product. So I'll use that to convert and then just measure by volume. It's probably a bit rough, but for most of the supplements I take it's not a very big deal if the dose is off by tens of milligrams.

I am using 00's for myself right now NOW brand from a healthfood store my dad goes too once and a while. I do the same thing. I just ballpark with Sulbutiamine and Alcar. Works great, easy to clean and use. I do have a small digital scale just in case I want ot be precise but generally the variance isnt that big.

[wacky]

I'm surprised nobody else has jumped on this one - but GET OFF the ketogenic diet!

I'm still getting plenty of carbs for my brain from vegetables, dairy-products, certain fruits and berries. Basically I've just dropped grains and sugars. It's not for weight loss, but general well-being and I don't need any drugs for my chronic heartburn.

I think I gonna order hydergine and adrafinil from qhi if my other orders pass the customs. For fish-oil, I'll take the maximum amount I can without thinning my blood too much, as I read some studies which suggested about 1.5gram of epa per day. And thanks for the tip for bacopa! I'll take it a gram per day.

[nito]

QHI is annoying. You have to send a letter to do when you become a member, tey won't accept an email : /

[nito]

Does anyone know where to get hydergine and pyritonol cheaply over to the uk, perhaps also something called Cerebrolysin which someone mentioned?

Thanks in advance!

[chrono]

This is one of the best threads of its kind I've seen in a while. Lots of very good advice and a wide range of approaches.

In general, memory training is very helpful—getting in the habit of making memorable associations, rather than relying on rote repetition. There are more specific systems for memorizing numbers and other data types, as well. PMemory (Phenomenal Memory) is the best training tool I've come across so far, but you can find many of the same ideas in an old Harry Lorayne paperback. Takes a while to get in the habit, but some ideas about improving association are immediately applicable, and highly usable if you're focused on memorizing certain things.

Another nootropic I'd seriously consider for this is ALCAR/ALA (sustained release ALA, if you can afford it). Combined with piracetam, it allows me to focus on fairly technical reading literally all day.

[wacky]

I agree, lots of great advices on this thread. Also on memorization techniques, which are more important than nootropics as your learning is based on them and nootropics are just boosting it. You'll always lose a certain percent of efficiency if learnt "wrong". And one must find a suitable learning method for himself because there cat be a general consensus that certain method is best gor everyone. For example I remeber things best if I connect them to a pictures. I'll draw some nice, simple and colorful picture on the book next to that important thing and I can then later recall the whole thing easily on my mind. I'll need to try that SQ3R too though.

[ian1983]

Does anyone know where to get hydergine and pyritonol cheaply over to the uk, perhaps also something called Cerebrolysin which someone mentioned?

Thanks in advance!

Yeah I wouldn't mind finding a supplier as well since I keep hearing how good the stuff is.

[wacky]

Ridicilous, is seems only pyritinol came through customs. I don't know what the hell they're holding my iherb stuff, shouldn't be anything illegal. I guess they'll send a letter concerning my piracetams, maybe even fine me :D
I guess I'll order from docsimon as they're shipping from schengen country so it could be easier to pass customs.
I'm not sure if I dare to order hydergine+adrafinil as those shitheads on border would propably steal those too.

Pyritinol seems to have no effect on me at least on it's own, I can't feel anything.

[Jurence]

Your piractam is higher than I would do. I do 1g every morning- it would probably be more effective to do 1g 2x a day. With piracetam its better to space it out low dose over the day then do large doses, so if any do 1g 4x a day. No need to cut melatonin out completely- just take it once a week when you really need refreshing sleep, but don't get dependent on it.