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ZMA does not raise testosterone levels


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#1 NeuroGuy

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 04:53 PM


http://www.ergo-log.com/zma.html

Study: ZMA does not raise testosterone levels


ZMA is totally ineffective, say German sports scientists in an article published in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition. The researchers tested a couple of bottles of SNAC System’s ZMA from the bodybuilding.com webshop. SNAC is Victor Conte’s company, the genius behind the BALCO scheme and the inventor of ZMA.



The team of researchers led by Wilhelm Schaenzer gave seven fitness fanatics the recommended dose of ZMA – three capsules per day, providing a total of thirty milligrams of zinc, 450 milligrams of magnesium and 11 milligrams of vitamin B6. The researchers made sure the athletes followed the advice of the manufacturer. The participants were asked to swallow the capsules with water between dinner and bedtime at minimum 1 h after the last food intake. Seven other athletes were given a placebo.


The Germans then monitored the concentration of androgens in the blood their subjects for 56 days. The results are shown below. The white bars represent the testosterone level of the test subjects in the placebo group. The grey bars represent the testosterone level of the test subjects in the ZMA group.












Effect: nada.


When the researchers measured the concentrations of a series of natural androgens in the test subjects' urine the story was pretty much the same. The concentrations are listed in the table, but not in straightforward milligrams, as the figures have undergone statistical processing. But the message is clear. ZMA does not raise the androgen level. If anything, it appears to lower it a little.



The researchers measured the zinc intake of the athletes before starting the experiment. Their levels were between 12 and 23 milligrams per day, more than the daily requirement. Recent trials have shown that athletes make more testosterone if they take zinc supplements. [Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2006 Feb-Apr;27(1-2):247-52.] But these athletes probably had a zinc deficiency, the Germans reason.


ZMA has been tested a couple of times. In the first case ZMA came out tops, and the abstract of the study was distributed to much acclaim. That research was done by supplements manufacturer himself. The manufacturer first claimed that the study had been published in the prestigious Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, [www.bodyandfitness.com] but this was not the case. The research was published on the JEPonline website. [JEPonline, 3(4): 26-36, 2000.]


A few years later, Richard Kreider studied the effectiveness of ZMASS, a supplement containing ZMA and L-Dopa produced by Cytodyne. ZMASS did nothing. Almost nothing. [J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2004 Dec 31;1(2):12-20.]


Meanwhile Victor Conte is doing very well thank you from the sales of ZMA, according to media reports. From the enquiry into the Balco affair we know that Conte gave athletes his invisible designer steroids on condition that they openly sung ZMA’s praises. This is how Marion Jones won her medals in the 2000 Olympics.


The Germans do have some good news about ZMA as well though. The supplement scarcely raises zinc levels in the body. The athletes excreted nearly all the extra zinc in their urine. ZMA users also urinated more – which explains why some ZMA users think that the stuff makes them ‘drier’. They dehydrate.


The rapid disappearance of extra zinc from the body is good news for all those bodybuilders who were duped into using ZMA. Researchers suspect that high levels of zinc intake can increase the risk of prostate cancer [J Natl Cancer Inst. 2003 Jul 2;95(13):1004-7.] in the long run.



#2 kismet

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 05:44 PM

Very old news. Nonetheless a good reminder. Watch out for the zinc-testosterone scam.

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#3 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 06:45 PM

Yeah, pretty old, but I am sure ZMA still sells unfortunately. Only works if you are actually deficient in Zinc.

#4 VampIyer

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 10:15 PM

http://www.ergo-log.com/zinctest.html - and yet zinc increases free Test here...

I think it's working for me because I was deficient.

Edit: http://www.ergo-log....conatetest.html - and then another on zinc

http://www.ergo-log....nesiumtest.html - and one on Mg

Edit 2: http://www.ergo-log....cuppertest.html - and then, ironically, copper

Edit 3: http://www.ergo-log.com/calciumt.html - and here's Calcium...

Edit 4: http://www.ergo-log....umstrength.html - another on Mg

Edited by VampIyer, 15 March 2010 - 10:22 PM.


#5 neogenic

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 04:53 PM

http://www.ergo-log.com/zinctest.html - and yet zinc increases free Test here...

I think it's working for me because I was deficient.

Edit: http://www.ergo-log....conatetest.html - and then another on zinc

http://www.ergo-log....nesiumtest.html - and one on Mg

Edit 2: http://www.ergo-log....cuppertest.html - and then, ironically, copper

Edit 3: http://www.ergo-log.com/calciumt.html - and here's Calcium...

Edit 4: http://www.ergo-log....umstrength.html - another on Mg

That megadose raised "free testosterone" 40%, not just total test. That's a huge impact. So, its not a scam. There's a correlation there. Certainly the largest impact would be seen with deficiency. But I think one will see a dose-effect relationship, but most dose too low to see a whole lot...or aren't willing to go very high to see impact like this study illustrates. The dose used in the study, is way too high to be done chronically, but it is interesting for acute purposes and or to illustrate the relationship in question here.

Not so easily dismissed. I would imagine much of the population that aren't supplement junkies, like our crowd is zinc-deficient to some degree.

#6 kismet

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 06:22 PM

http://www.ergo-log.com/zinctest.html - and yet zinc increases free Test here...

Yeah, seen that when it come out. Didn't follow-up and completely forgot it. Note: apparently it is a small study, not yet independently replicated. Better designed studies using ZMA-like doses *actually fail to demonstrate ANY benefits whatsoever*, more importantly - mega-dose (not sure if it's 240 mg salt or elemental Zn, but even in the salt form it's probably >100mg/d).

We're in the business of extending our lives, not killing ourselves. Chronic zinc overdoses are very, very dangerous.

I would imagine much of the population that aren't supplement junkies, like our crowd is zinc-deficient to some degree.

Stop imagining.  :p Most people are likely somewhat copper deficient and highly zinc replete (*especially* the target market for ZMA: supplement addicts and body builders) due to the respective major food sources of zinc and copper (meat, grains vs vegetables).

Obviously any essential nutrient will do wonders in the deficient.

Conclusion: ZMA for T is most definitely a scam (keep in mind "scam" describes any company that uses and exaggerates weak evidence, for different dosing schemes, to sell sub-par products that do nothing in the healthy).

Edited by kismet, 19 March 2010 - 06:36 PM.


#7 Chaos Theory

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 07:39 PM

n=1 My blood work when I was using zinc @ 100mg/day showed total testosterone being slightly high at 862ng/dl.

I stopped the zinc completely and both times I was tested after that my testosterone was only in the 500's.

#8 Blue

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 08:05 PM

Stop imagining.  :p Most people are likely somewhat copper deficient and highly zinc replete (*especially* the target market for ZMA: supplement addicts and body builders) due to the respective major food sources of zinc and copper (meat, grains vs vegetables).

Grains, especially whole grains, are actually a good source for copper while the phytic acid inhibits zinc absorption. If I recall correctly average intake is around RDA for both zinc and copper so a substantial fraction of the population will be deficient in one or both.

#9 neogenic

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 02:04 PM

http://www.ergo-log.com/zinctest.html - and yet zinc increases free Test here...

Yeah, seen that when it come out. Didn't follow-up and completely forgot it. Note: apparently it is a small study, not yet independently replicated. Better designed studies using ZMA-like doses *actually fail to demonstrate ANY benefits whatsoever*, more importantly - mega-dose (not sure if it's 240 mg salt or elemental Zn, but even in the salt form it's probably >100mg/d).

We're in the business of extending our lives, not killing ourselves. Chronic zinc overdoses are very, very dangerous.

I would imagine much of the population that aren't supplement junkies, like our crowd is zinc-deficient to some degree.

Stop imagining.  ;) Most people are likely somewhat copper deficient and highly zinc replete (*especially* the target market for ZMA: supplement addicts and body builders) due to the respective major food sources of zinc and copper (meat, grains vs vegetables).

Obviously any essential nutrient will do wonders in the deficient.

Conclusion: ZMA for T is most definitely a scam (keep in mind "scam" describes any company that uses and exaggerates weak evidence, for different dosing schemes, to sell sub-par products that do nothing in the healthy).

Those are both very biased conclusions. Generalizations about those that do sports nutrition, etc. and the study does not condone chronic use at those levels. ZMA is used by some, but not like a creatine. I've used ZMA, and I can say anecdotally and I saw a significant jump in libido and started waking up with erections for the first time in years. I've talked to many others that report the same thing. I think there's a reason people like it. And its not awesome advertising, placebo, etc. HGW, LJ100, and many other libido ingredients aren't that popular for consistent use and sound more exciting than a few minerals.

What that study does do is illustrate clearly a relationship with humans, which is significant. Most supplements are formulated with rats studies with doses that would equate to kilograms of the herb daily in humans to illustrate some relationship with performance or a desired variable. I am a clinician and I do see zinc deficiencies in men my age. Absolutely. And a copper deficiency is actually seen less on my end, quite a bit less. That deficiency of copper from zinc would be at very large doses, chronically to start to see that. Not even ZMA doses (per label use) would bring that about. That relationship is very exaggerated.

#10 NeuroGuy

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 02:28 PM

From my own experience I definitely gained a large amount of libido with ZMA, but I think it was from a serious magnesium deficiency.

Also, I'm all for supplementing zinc, I think this study was more to rule out supplementing zinc ASPARTATE. Orthocore uses zinc citrate so I tend to run with that.

#11 neogenic

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 05:17 PM

From my own experience I definitely gained a large amount of libido with ZMA, but I think it was from a serious magnesium deficiency.

Also, I'm all for supplementing zinc, I think this study was more to rule out supplementing zinc ASPARTATE. Orthocore uses zinc citrate so I tend to run with that.

Agreed.

#12 neogenic

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 05:22 PM

From my own experience I definitely gained a large amount of libido with ZMA, but I think it was from a serious magnesium deficiency.

Also, I'm all for supplementing zinc, I think this study was more to rule out supplementing zinc ASPARTATE. Orthocore uses zinc citrate so I tend to run with that.

Agreed.

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#13 neogenic

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 05:25 PM

I am a big fan of zinc orotate.




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