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Do telomerase inhibitors decrease the life of hair follicles?


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#1 Hoppipolla

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 03:53 PM


Hey hey all!

First thread I know, go me ;)

(sorry about the length of it - feel free to scan read if you want!)

Basically, I stumbled upon this forum because I have recently been experiencing some hair loss (I am just 24), and so was already taking beta-sitosterol, curcumin and resveratrol, but then was told that me having been stressed for a few years could have been reducing the length of my telomeres (I believe it is cortisol that can cause this, so I am currently taking a few things like magnesium, vitamin C, omega 3 and soon Sensoril to lower my cortisol and stress, etc). So I got researching for quite a while, found this forum, learnt all about telomerase, telomeres, what inhibits it and what activates it (I'm still a bit new to it all but I'm gradually learning more!), and although I still am not sure/convinced if my telomere length is the problem to start with (I am suspecting my thyroid mainly), I am still fascinated by many aspects of this, and regardless of hair loss or whatever will probably be returning here and learning more fairly regularly :)

So, yes, my question really was that recently I have been taking both curcumin and resveratrol, as I heard that they can help with the loss of hair (through mechanisms that don't seem to involve telomerase, etc). However, I am concerned by the fact that they are inhibitors of the enzyme. Is it true that hair follicles continuously produce telomerase? Do their telomeres ever shorten? I guess this explains why people have a full head of hair until they die (save for external factors such as androgen activity like men experience). I was concerned as to whether by taking curcumin and resveratrol, I was also giving my hair follicles telomeres reason to shrink, as they are not being reformed. What do you think?

Additionally, does telomerase activity even in cells where it is produced gradually deplete with time? As that would explain why older men are more likely to lose hair, as their hair follicle cells are not as strongly maintaining their telomeres. Perhaps therefore I could tackle a large element of my hair loss, etc, by lowering cortisol and increasing the length of my telomeres (either within my hair follicles only or throughout my body, if I'm feeling ambitious).

But yes sorry that went on for so long, I've just been learning so much and my mind is awash with thoughts!

In addition of course this is a concern that also would apply to... I believe haploid cells for reproduction such as sperms and eggs and other beneficial places where telomerase is switched on? Tell me if I'm off the mark on that one :)

Anyway, thank you for providing such a great forum and in advance for any help ^_^

Hoppi! :)

#2 hamishm00

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 04:33 PM

I'm not going to attempt to answer your telomerase questions because there are people who are more qualified to do so than me, but I will say you should consider whether or not it is more likely your hair loss is due to you being genetically more susceptible to DHT buildup in the scalp than others. Resveratrol will probably make this worse because it might increase DHT levels.

#3 Hoppipolla

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 07:30 PM

Oh I know, and yes of course the main reason for male hair loss is DHT. However on an unrelated note I do not want to encourage the telomeres in my hair follicles to become shorter, I mean this could never be a good thing. I was just wondering if telomerase inhibitors might do this.

Additionally I'm not sure if there is such thing as telomerase in the blood stream, or if it's just in certain cells... so much to learn! ;)


Oh and no resveratrol doesn't increase DHT as far as I'm aware but it does increase testosterone, so you need to make sure you have enough SHBG in your blood to mop up any excess free T :)

Edited by Hoppipolla, 29 March 2010 - 07:31 PM.


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#4 shaggy

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 08:23 PM

I think a long the same lines as hamish here...

If resveratrol increases testostorone (which I'm not entirely sure that it does to any significant degree) would this not lead to a concomitant rise in DHT, at least in the short term?

#5 Hoppipolla

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 09:15 PM

I think a long the same lines as hamish here...

If resveratrol increases testostorone (which I'm not entirely sure that it does to any significant degree) would this not lead to a concomitant rise in DHT, at least in the short term?


Not if you're offsetting it with raised SHBG. Additionally there is a chance that elevated estrogen causes problems and low T might cause lifting DHT.


Aaaaanyway this isn't the point lol, I'm ok with the hormonal stuff I think! But my concern was... if curcumin and that are inhibiting telomerase... isn't that bad for places like hair follicles in the body?

I am only speaking generally, I mean I haven't been taking curcumin or resveratrol for long enough to notice any negative or positive effects yet.

#6 JLL

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 07:13 AM

I think a long the same lines as hamish here...

If resveratrol increases testostorone (which I'm not entirely sure that it does to any significant degree) would this not lead to a concomitant rise in DHT, at least in the short term?


Not necessarily. It could be that resveratrol reduces 5-alpha-reductase --> higher T, lower DHT. Or a similar mechanism. I don't know if this is the case though.

#7 sentrysnipe

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 07:44 AM

Some study abstracts actually call resveratrol a "phytoestrogen". Some call it a SERM.

#8 Ironman-Adam

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 11:36 AM

Hi Hoppi,

Minoxidil 5% applied topically a couple of times a day to affected areas will block the action of DHT in the scalp, and topical Retin-A assists absorbtion. At your age, you'll almost certainly see full regrowth, and as long as you keep using it, you won't suffer any further hair loss (and that includes genetic male pattern baldness).

#9 J_o_L

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 04:42 PM

Hi Hoppi,

Minoxidil 5% applied topically a couple of times a day to affected areas will block the action of DHT in the scalp,


Nope, it doesn't. It just accelerates hair growth, but doesn't do anything to slow genetic hair loss.

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#10 Ironman-Adam

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 07:37 PM

Nope, it doesn't. It just accelerates hair growth, but doesn't do anything to slow genetic hair loss.


Alas J_o_L couldn't be more wrong, as this is completely incorrect on both counts.

Firstly, Minoxidil doesn't accelerate normal hair growth. Applied topically it simply enters the follicle, blocking the action of DHT locally for as long as it's present, allowing previously dormant follicles to enter a new anagen (growth) phase.

And secondly, propensity to male pattern baldness is genetic. And the resulting hair loss itself occurs due to the combined action of DHT and 5-alpha reductase on susceptible follicles - action which is blocked by the regular applcation of Minoxidil.

Genetic baldness is precisely the condition that Minoxidil does relieve - it's hair loss caused by other conditions, disease, or damage that it often can't improve.

It's a shame to see misguided posts born of ignorance, when there are otherwise so many well informed people who take the time to educate themselves.

Adam

Edited by Ironman-Adam, 30 March 2010 - 07:45 PM.


#11 shaggy

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 07:39 PM

I think a long the same lines as hamish here...

If resveratrol increases testostorone (which I'm not entirely sure that it does to any significant degree) would this not lead to a concomitant rise in DHT, at least in the short term?


Not necessarily. It could be that resveratrol reduces 5-alpha-reductase --> higher T, lower DHT. Or a similar mechanism. I don't know if this is the case though.


@ JLL I haven't seen any evidence Res acts as a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor, if you have any info on this please reference it.

I, like sentrysnipe have seen resveratrol classified as a herbal SERM, sure it was on ergo log. Although I haven't the text to hand...I will look though as I'm interested. I am more inclined to believe it behaves in a similar way to tamoxifen, but much milder.

Edited by shaggy, 30 March 2010 - 07:44 PM.


#12 shaggy

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 07:43 PM

Nope, it doesn't. It just accelerates hair growth, but doesn't do anything to slow genetic hair loss.


Alas J_o_L couldn't be more wrong, as this is completely incorrect on both counts.

Firstly, Minoxidil doesn't accelerate normal hair growth. Applied topically it simply enters the follicle, blocking the action of DHT locally for as long as it's present, allowing previously dormant follicles to enter a new anagen (growth) phase.

And secondly, propensity to male pattern baldness is genetic. And the resulting hair loss itself occurs due to the combined action of DHT and 5-alpha reductase on susceptible follicles - action which is blocked by the regular applcation of Minoxidil.

It's a shame to see misguided posts born of ignorance, when there are otherwise so many well informed people who take the time to educate themselves.

Adam


Please show me your evidence that minoxidil blocks the action of DHT? I always thought it was it's vasodilating properties that encouraged hair regrowth, I never realised it worked on a hormonal level?

Thanks....

#13 Ironman-Adam

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 08:10 PM

Nope, it doesn't. It just accelerates hair growth, but doesn't do anything to slow genetic hair loss.


Alas J_o_L couldn't be more wrong, as this is completely incorrect on both counts.

Firstly, Minoxidil doesn't accelerate normal hair growth. Applied topically it simply enters the follicle, blocking the action of DHT locally for as long as it's present, allowing previously dormant follicles to enter a new anagen (growth) phase.

And secondly, propensity to male pattern baldness is genetic. And the resulting hair loss itself occurs due to the combined action of DHT and 5-alpha reductase on susceptible follicles - action which is blocked by the regular applcation of Minoxidil.

It's a shame to see misguided posts born of ignorance, when there are otherwise so many well informed people who take the time to educate themselves.

Adam


Please show me your evidence that minoxidil blocks the action of DHT? I always thought it was it's vasodilating properties that encouraged hair regrowth, I never realised it worked on a hormonal level?

Thanks....


Hi Shaggy,

Apologies to all for derailing this thread from the main Telomerase subject - I just wanted to offer a little advice, but it's becoming a bit of a discussion so I'll keep it brief.

Minoxidil is indeed a vasodilator, which undoubtedly assists, but it also stabilises calcium and potassium ion channels, which are evidently disrupted by the action of DHT (referring specifically to hair follicles, I hasten to add...) You're right - though the science is sparse, Minoxidil doesn't interact hormonally nor block DHT directly. It simply blocks (and may reverse) the debilitating ACTION of DHT and 5-alpha reductase in follicles on which it acts.

And to be fair to J_o_L, Minoxidil is sometimes misquoted as "accelerating hair growth", but whilst it may increase thickness of individual hairs, and normalise the anagen phase, in practicality it simply increases the number of hairs per unit area.

Adam

Edited by Ironman-Adam, 30 March 2010 - 08:25 PM.


#14 J_o_L

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:26 PM

Nope, it doesn't. It just accelerates hair growth, but doesn't do anything to slow genetic hair loss.


Alas J_o_L couldn't be more wrong, as this is completely incorrect on both counts.

Firstly, Minoxidil doesn't accelerate normal hair growth. Applied topically it simply enters the follicle, blocking the action of DHT locally for as long as it's present, allowing previously dormant follicles to enter a new anagen (growth) phase.


You're gonna have to show some proof for that claim.

#15 sentrysnipe

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 01:07 AM

Minoxidil is a hair stimulant. It has nothing to do with 5-AR inhibition. The molecule is similar to NO.

#16 DorianGrey

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:04 PM

Hi,
from all I know about telomerase activity it really shouldn't matter if you inhibit the activity in the follicle because the activity is low anyway. Even if, an effect would only materialize decades later.

#17 hav

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:02 PM

Here's a study done with minoxidil and a drug called finasteride. Fwiw, 4 out of 5 monkeys responded to both alone, but better in combination:

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1309834

Howard

#18 niner

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:24 PM

Give the title of this old thread, it should probably be pointed out that there aren't any supplements that are potent in vivo telomerase inhibitors. Some of them will do it in a test tube, at concentrations impossible to achieve in the body, and in the absence of the body's system of drug metabolizing enzymes or barriers to drug absorption. So, basically, "telomerase inhibition" is a bogeyman that we don't need to worry about.

#19 DorianGrey

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:07 PM

Here's a study done with minoxidil and a drug called finasteride. Fwiw, 4 out of 5 monkeys responded to both alone, but better in combination:

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1309834

Howard


Does that have anything to do with telomerase inhbition? This is about DHT only.

BTW, is there any literature that short telomers in the follicle cause hair loss and graying?

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#20 hav

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 08:46 PM

BTW, is there any literature that short telomers in the follicle cause hair loss and graying?


Closest I found are theories that iron deficiency may be related to hair loss as well as shorter leucocyte telomere length in patients with chronic heart failure.

Howard




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