22 replies to this topic

[GoodFellas]

Hi.

Can one do cryonics in Norway? If so how much would it cost?

[Cyberbrain]

There are three cryonic facilities in the world. Two are in the US, so your best bet (as well as the cheapest solution) would be to go with KrioRus which is the only cryonic provider for Europe and Russia.

[GoodFellas]

Thanks.

The reason why I'm asking is because my grandparents are starting to get older and I realize that I will probably have lost two of them within 5 years (my grandmas are 87 and 84 years old).
However, my grandpa is 85 and in very good shape so he will probably see at least another 10 years.

I love my family and I don't want any of them to go away. However, I don't know of they feel about cryonics themselv though;P

Edited by GoodFellas, 06 April 2010 - 07:16 AM.

[Agent]

There are Europeans signed up for cryonics with the American providers (Alcor and Cryonics Institute), so you may still consider these options, however the transport of the body of the deceased may cost more than to Russia. In order to become patients of an American organization, your grandparents have to become members of the organization before deanimation - you usually cannot organize it last minute. It has to be their conscious* decision, so the sooner you talk to them, the better chances are that they are accepted.

* from the Cryonics Institute's Cryonic Susupension Agreement: "The Patient, being of sound mind and will, desires..."

[GoodFellas]

How much would the Russian cost and how much would the American one cost?

[GoodFellas]

I don't really know wether they would like the idea though.

I talked to my dad about it, and he told me that it just sounds really weird and expensive;P

[Agent]

I don't really know wether they would like the idea though.

I talked to my dad about it, and he told me that it just sounds really weird and expensive;P

So would your dad rather let his parents die than give them a chance to come back to life?

As to the costs,

• the cheapest option is the neurocryopreservation at KrioRus = $10.000,
• the next is $28.000 for whole body at CI for Lifetime Members,
• next $30.000 KrioRus whole body,
• if the patient pays Yearly Membership rates, the whole body cryopreservation at CI is $35.000,
• the neuro option at Alcor is $80.000,
• and $150.000 whole body at Alcor.

Plus transport costs.

[Alex Libman]

Yes, my previous post here included a cannibalism joke, but it touched upon a very serious issue regarding KrioRus - when you choose to have yourself or a loved one cryogenically preserved in a foreign country, its long-term political stability does matter.

And it's not just my anti-Russian agenda talking - a lot of mainstream geopolitics experts (ex. George Friedman) are predicting that Russia will become unstable fragment throughout the 21st century, which increases the long-term likelihood of things like grid failures, generator fuel shortages, looting of commodities like batteries and refrigeration equipment, and downright malice against the frozen foreigners.

I would wholeheartedly recommend paying more for cryogenic services in a more stable part of the world instead.

[GoodFellas]

I don't really know wether they would like the idea though.

I talked to my dad about it, and he told me that it just sounds really weird and expensive;P

So would your dad rather let his parents die than give them a chance to come back to life?

As to the costs,

• the cheapest option is the neurocryopreservation at KrioRus = $10.000,
• the next is $28.000 for whole body at CI for Lifetime Members,
• next $30.000 KrioRus whole body,
• if the patient pays Yearly Membership rates, the whole body cryopreservation at CI is $35.000,
• the neuro option at Alcor is $80.000,
• and $150.000 whole body at Alcor.

Plus transport costs.

What does the neurocrrypopreservation at KrioRus do?

Also, has anyone else here had exeriences with getting reluctant family members to do cryonics?

[GoodFellas]

What does the neurocrrypopreservation at KrioRus do?

Also, has anyone else here had exeriences with getting reluctant family members to do cryonics?

Any thoughts about this?

Edited by Agent, 23 April 2010 - 12:18 PM.

[niner]

Also, has anyone else here had exeriences with getting reluctant family members to do cryonics?

Any thoughts about this?

Yes. Don't do it. Let your family members live their lives as they please. Cryonics should be for those who want it. That's my thought, i.e. opinion.

[Agent]

What does the neurocrrypopreservation at KrioRus do?

Also, has anyone else here had exeriences with getting reluctant family members to do cryonics?

When I was talking to my friends about cryonics, I remember that one of their first questions was: do you have cryonics arrangements for yourself?

How anyone (who doesn't know anything about cryonics) may trust your good intentions if you actually don't choose the option for yourself?

Neuropreservation - preserving the brain, in skull or head or just brain. Depending on what the facility gets after e.g. autopsy. It is controversial if the personality and/or memory is stored in brain only or somewhere else as well. E.g. heart transplant patients report personality changes for one of their donor. It is not mainstream science, so you need to dig it up yourself and make your own decisions based on what you believe to be an accurate information of the subject. Don't trust me on this. There are some topics on neuro vs. whole body on this forum. You may already have found this video.

When I was making the arrangements, I read almost all on the Alcor, CI and KrioRus websites, some texts from the Ben Best's website and some other websites. I really needed to know what I was talking about if I was going to at least convince my friends and relatives to sign my documents as witnesses and Next of Kin.

[David Styles]

Yes, my previous post here included a cannibalism joke, but it touched upon a very serious issue regarding KrioRus - when you choose to have yourself or a loved one cryogenically preserved in a foreign country, its long-term political stability does matter.

And it's not just my anti-Russian agenda talking - a lot of mainstream geopolitics experts (ex. George Friedman) are predicting that Russia will become unstable fragment throughout the 21st century, which increases the long-term likelihood of things like grid failures, generator fuel shortages, looting of commodities like batteries and refrigeration equipment, and downright malice against the frozen foreigners.

I would wholeheartedly recommend paying more for cryogenic services in a more stable part of the world instead.

I have heard similar arguments, mostly from people in countries that have had a lot of anti-Russian propaganda for political reasons (America and Hungary come to mind).

Personally I do not think that America or Russia will fall apart any time soon.

My contract is with CI, as when I set it up I wasn't actually aware of other cryonics organisations, and didn't think to look (I was amazed there was even one organisation doing it, let alone more). However, I have great confidence in the management of KrioRus; its Chairman Danila Medvedev, and President Valerija Pride.

[GoodFellas]

Of course I would choose it for myself. However, right now as I'm only 21 years old I think it's too early to begin doing it.

Edited by Agent, 23 April 2010 - 09:50 PM.

[David Styles]

Of course I would choose it for myself. However, right now as I'm only 21 years old I think it's too early to begin doing it.

Do you plan instead to wait until you are too old or ill to get life insurance?

Or perhaps until you are hit by a car?

Or perhaps you just think it'd be unfair of you to benefit from the really cheap life insurance deals offered to young people?

[GoodFellas]

Bumping this one a bit;D

[GoodFellas]

I don't really know wether they would like the idea though.

I talked to my dad about it, and he told me that it just sounds really weird and expensive;P

So would your dad rather let his parents die than give them a chance to come back to life?

As to the costs,

• the cheapest option is the neurocryopreservation at KrioRus = $10.000,
• the next is $28.000 for whole body at CI for Lifetime Members,
• next $30.000 KrioRus whole body,
• if the patient pays Yearly Membership rates, the whole body cryopreservation at CI is $35.000,
• the neuro option at Alcor is $80.000,
• and $150.000 whole body at Alcor.

Plus transport costs.

What are the main differences between Alcor at 80 000$ and KrioRus's whole body. Also, how much would the transport costs be?

I talked to my grandpa yesterday and he seemed very positive towards cryonics. Also, is it enough that he agrees with it or does other family members have to agree with the descision too?

[Agent]

What are the main differences between Alcor at 80 000$ and KrioRus's whole body.

As the main differences are quoted in your question, I don't understand what you are asking for.
One is whole body while the other is head only, one is much cheaper than the other, and one is geographically closer to Norway.

Also, how much would the transport costs be?

You actually should contact these organisations and ask them.

I talked to my grandpa yesterday and he seemed very positive towards cryonics.

This sounds like the most important thing.

Also, is it enough that he agrees with it or does other family members have to agree with the descision too?

If he and you are positive, you have chances to convince the other family members.
Someone is the "next of kin" to your grandpa - his wife if alive, or his children, or his siblings?
This person is usually the key person when your grandpa dies and may have the right to decide on how to dispose of his body.
This may depend of your country law and the requirements of the chosen cryonics provider.
Just google the first question and read the websites of the cryonics providers to find out their "Next of kin" regulations and papers.

You may be already aware of this. The issue shows that there is a hope even if family members are opposed to the wishes of the deceased; however, it happened in the US. There is no guarantee that it would be equally safe internationally.

Edited by Agent, 16 May 2010 - 04:18 PM.

[chrwe]

I recommend signing up with Alcor or CI since either of these have been around for quite a long time contrary to KrioRus. With CI, you can terminate the agreement in, say, 40 years and re-decide. The beneficiary of a life-insurance can be changed quite easily.

Personally, I love the service and the warm-heartedness of CI and I also feel they are genuinely into cryonics for themselves. Plus, I was informed by CI that they are working on a solution to get better perfusion for international patients.

The transport and resulting damage is a bitch that cannot be avoided at the moment, it does not take much longer to get to the USA than to get to Russia.

If I dont succumb to sudden disease or to an accident, I plan to move to the USA (near the cryonics facility of my choice) once I am 85 or so. Provided the USA lets me. It`s no use to get worked up about it at the moment, tho, as we dont know what happens in the next 40 years (or nearly 50 till 85, even more for you). There may be a huge increase in technology for cryonics, there may be new facilities, there may not be. We dont know yet.

I`m from Germany myself.

[GoodFellas]

Yes, my previous post here included a cannibalism joke, but it touched upon a very serious issue regarding KrioRus - when you choose to have yourself or a loved one cryogenically preserved in a foreign country, its long-term political stability does matter.

And it's not just my anti-Russian agenda talking - a lot of mainstream geopolitics experts (ex. George Friedman) are predicting that Russia will become unstable fragment throughout the 21st century, which increases the long-term likelihood of things like grid failures, generator fuel shortages, looting of commodities like batteries and refrigeration equipment, and downright malice against the frozen foreigners.

I would wholeheartedly recommend paying more for cryogenic services in a more stable part of the world instead.

Of course, it woud be easier if I lived in the US, however, since I live in Norway, what other options do I really have than to chose Russia?

[GoodFellas]

Any thoughts about this?

[bestdrug]

If there is no cryonics company in your city, or no cryonics in your country. The best way to get it in place is to actually create cryonics company. I suggest to create Cryonics company either in Norway or Denmark. I am in Oslo now. It would be nice to find a group of interested people. My Skype name is: bestdrug

[albedo]

Also, has anyone else here had exeriences with getting reluctant family members to do cryonics?

Any thoughts about this?

Yes. Don't do it. Let your family members live their lives as they please. Cryonics should be for those who want it. That's my thought, i.e. opinion.

I agree with niner. However, you might be interested reading Ralph Merkle's article "Signing Up Your Relatives" (here at p. 9) to help defining how to approach the problem (if a problem exists)