19 replies to this topic

[PYER]

A problem is pointed by the POPE concerning immortality as anticipated by our institute - why? Isn't it possible that in the old world of pagan values and maybe even today secretly there has been many secrets in choised diet to prolong human life for those that were nore privileged?
I wonder of what manuscripts may have been found recently in such old world matters related to logevity.

I know...the only problem that could arise in longvity is really if delusional lust unknowingly gets inside humans, and that's that!

Longevity aspiration is good mainly due to other reasons as prevention medicine practiced in ways even unknowingly.

So I may know better than the POPE concerning such matters in lengevity but he probably has more in collected history. It's a serious subject that once you take a legitimate lead requires special precautions.

[maxwatt]

"If a man live but once, how shall he see the kingdom of heaven?"

That in a nutshell is Christian fundamentalism's problem with immortality.

[khakiman]

if i had to guess id say jesus wouldnt be a very big fan of the vatican

[shadowhawk]

"If a man live but once, how shall he see the kingdom of heaven?"

That in a nutshell is Christian fundamentalism's problem with immortality.

You are right to note Christians believe we all will die but so do most non Christians. Talk to them and you will get the same kind of disbelief as theists. At the same time Christians believe life is a gift and that it is a good and ethical thing to have long life. God grant you many years is a common blessing among Christians.

Christians believe you have a body, soul and spirit and are made up of three parts. Life is the result of the body and spirit being together while the body dies when the spirit departs. The, “you” is located with your spirit which is of a spiritual nature and never dies. Death and dying are about this relationship between spirit and body and is the subject of much religious and non-religious study in recent years.

http://www.amazon.co...r...5110&sr=1-1

[1kgcoffee]

Who cares what a bunch of stone age theists think about indefinite life extension? They weren't on board for the heliocentric model, evolution or contraception. Religion is irrational. No amount of logic or reason can persuade them.

Besides, by the time we are scientifically advanced enough to achieve it, who will actually take the church seriously?

[chris w]

Who cares what a bunch of stone age theists think about indefinite life extension? They weren't on board for the heliocentric model, evolution or contraception. Religion is irrational. No amount of logic or reason can persuade them.

Besides, by the time we are scientifically advanced enough to achieve it, who will actually take the church seriously?

Exactly, let them eat slices of white bread, believing that they are consumming the flesh of god, and it's going to make them live in heavens. I wanna consume some vanilla nanobots in 2029. Amen

Edited by chris w, 18 April 2010 - 03:36 PM.

[chrwe]

The vatican is full of very self-righteous people with big doctrines and we all know what Jesus thought of this kind of person.

I even think there just MAY be some chance there is a quantum-based afterlife, but this is a very far off "plan C". "Plan A" = success of SENS and other biotech in my lifetime giving me physical "immortality"; "Plan B" = Cryonics, "Plan C" = omg, please let there be an afterlife even though there is simply NO rational evidence

And here is the thing: How many of the believers of religious doctrines do you think are actually going to refuse the vanilla nanobots? Close to zero, thats how many, is my guess.

Edited by chrwe, 28 April 2010 - 02:27 PM.

[chris w]

I even think there just MAY be some chance there is a quantum-based afterlife, but this is a very far off "plan C". "Plan A" = success of SENS and other biotech in my lifetime giving me physical "immortality"; "Plan B" = Cryonics, "Plan C" = omg, please let there be an afterlife even though there is simply NO rational evidence

yeah, this is pretty much my prison break plan too, though I have to hope that in a couple of decades crio cathces up in Eastern Europe as well ( I'm not sure if the guys from CrioRus will be that reliable in handling the body of a meaningless deceased Polish guy ).

Lately I've been thinking about the case of, let's say New Age kind of reincarnation concept, as layed out for example by Ken Wilber. I don't believe it but I cannot dismiss the thing as just another religious lunacy like Heaven, Hell ( and Purgatory in Catholicism, oh, and also the Bay of The Children lol ) with the Big Man running it all. Somewhere very deep in the back of my head, there sometimes lurkes this idea, that perhaps, just perhaps if you exist in the first place, then you are somehow bound to be born again and again, but still I wouldn't want to check this myself.

Edited by chris w, 28 April 2010 - 05:43 PM.

[s123]

Christians believe you have a body, soul and spirit and are made up of three parts. Life is the result of the body and spirit being together while the body dies when the spirit departs. The, “you” is located with your spirit which is of a spiritual nature and never dies. Death and dying are about this relationship between spirit and body and is the subject of much religious and non-religious study in recent years.

Indeed, so we must prove to them that the soul and spirit do not exist. At least not independently of the body because your 'self' (a better word than the metaphysical spirit or soul) is the result of electrochemical reactions in the brain. This is of course not easy given the fact that religious people generally lack scientific insight.

[Kolos]

Somewhere very deep in the back of my head, there sometimes lurkes this idea, that perhaps, just perhaps if you exist in the first place, then you are somehow bound to be born again and again, but still I wouldn't want to check this myself.

Sometimes I think quite seriously about the possibility of reincarnation when I think about my early childhood, why I felt certain feelings why I wanted certain things why I dreamed about them etc. but even if it was true that I lived many times this type of immortality doesn't sound too attractive to me after all how much of what makes me who I am can be transported into another body after I die? Not memories, chemistry of my brain or gender because I would know if I have memories from previous lifes (I would remember them) and it's quite unlikely that I have similar body every time I reincarnate so what is left are some general feelings and character traits that I probably share with many other people in fact I heard that some buddhists believe that many people can share a one soul. I wonder what would they say about crionics, would revived person had the same soul even if it was already in other body? Luckily thats not my problem.

[Cameron]

Who cares what a bunch of stone age theists think about indefinite life extension? They weren't on board for the heliocentric model, evolution or contraception. Religion is irrational. No amount of logic or reason can persuade them.

Besides, by the time we are scientifically advanced enough to achieve it, who will actually take the church seriously?

Exactly, let them eat slices of white bread, believing that they are consumming the flesh of god, and it's going to make them live in heavens. I wanna consume some vanilla nanobots in 2029. Amen

So true, they approach the divine with pointless rituals devised by primitive ignorant men in ancient times. To approach the divine by transcending the prison of the flesh, is a much more realistic path... like a group of loons trying to reach a celestial body through some weird ritual, contrasted with a well funded group of engineers following rigorous theories at NASA.

Christians believe you have a body, soul and spirit and are made up of three parts. Life is the result of the body and spirit being together while the body dies when the spirit departs. The, "you" is located with your spirit which is of a spiritual nature and never dies. Death and dying are about this relationship between spirit and body and is the subject of much religious and non-religious study in recent years.

Indeed, so we must prove to them that the soul and spirit do not exist. At least not independently of the body because your 'self' (a better word than the metaphysical spirit or soul) is the result of electrochemical reactions in the brain. This is of course not easy given the fact that religious people generally lack scientific insight.

Once the nature of the mind is laid bare for all to see, whatever notion of 'soul' remains will have to be quite different to that of most believers. This is the last remnant, the last remaining piece of Élan vital.

[chris w]

Somewhere very deep in the back of my head, there sometimes lurkes this idea, that perhaps, just perhaps if you exist in the first place, then you are somehow bound to be born again and again, but still I wouldn't want to check this myself.

Sometimes I think quite seriously about the possibility of reincarnation when I think about my early childhood, why I felt certain feelings why I wanted certain things why I dreamed about them etc. but even if it was true that I lived many times this type of immortality doesn't sound too attractive to me after all how much of what makes me who I am can be transported into another body after I die? Not memories, chemistry of my brain or gender because I would know if I have memories from previous lifes (I would remember them) and it's quite unlikely that I have similar body every time I reincarnate so what is left are some general feelings and character traits that I probably share with many other people in fact I heard that some buddhists believe that many people can share a one soul. I wonder what would they say about crionics, would revived person had the same soul even if it was already in other body? Luckily thats not my problem.

Of course this perspective is not that very attractive but still in my opinion it beats not existing at all, it would be ( if it were true ) perhaps just like changing your whole interface the moment you die and the moment somebody is born, who has the same "pattern" as you Kolos had when you were alive, and that it is this pattern who is travelling using different bodily vehicles. I know this all is very far fetched, and there probably isn't any reincarnation afterall but it sometimes gives me comfort to think that there might be a mechanism of this sort. It has been known for long that children have this strong tendency to think about their own birth as somehow inevitable, that even if the particaular pair of people who are their parents never decidsed to concieve, then this one child would still be born, in some other family no matter what, but that of course may be some kind of natural "brain narcissism" that makes you think of yourself as in some way essential to the universe, so definitely not a prove of anything about the nature of existence.

Edited by chris w, 29 April 2010 - 03:42 PM.

[valkyrie_ice]

http://www.scribd.co...-Wants-You-Dead

[Luna]

When immortality arrives it will just be a gift from God after all right now they whine about it because it isn't here and human made, when it will be here it will be God made because it is here. Gift from God to humanity.. blablabla.

For now, ignore them. Later, ignore them more or you'll get annoyed with their excuses..

[firespin]

When immortality arrives it will just be a gift from God after all right now they whine about it because it isn't here and human made, when it will be here it will be God made because it is here. Gift from God to humanity.. blablabla.

For now, ignore them. Later, ignore them more or you'll get annoyed with their excuses..

This is very true and good advice. Almost every invention and research religious people was against and saying it was against god, evil and from the devil, but then when the invention came about and help people they claim god gave man the knowledge to create it. What a bunch of shameless morons. Mordern recent examples of this foolishness from religious people is photographs, tv, and the internet. (You can read up on this)

I am going to start to ignore them, as long as they don't bother me or get in my way.

Edited by firespin, 01 May 2010 - 12:45 AM.

[AdamSummerfield]

Yep, every time I wake up in the morning I wonder what the Church of Catholicism thinks about Life Extentionists.
As far as I'm concerned about extending my own lifespan, the Catholic Church can think whatever it wants.

Edited by AdamSummerfield, 13 May 2010 - 04:49 PM.

[shadowhawk]

Yep, every time I wake up in the morning I wonder what the Church of Catholicism thinks about Life Extentionists.
As far as I'm concerned about extending my own lifespan, the Catholic Church can think whatever it wants.

Hi Adam:
From what I know of the Catholic Church, they would not be against life extension. In fact they have the largest hospital system in the world. I would like to see any proof they are against as long a life as possible. (See the abortion issue) Some claims made for immortality may be doubted by people who still want long life. I feel uncomfortable with the pejorative “deathists” being hurled at anyone who doubts immortality of the physical body.

[AdamSummerfield]

Yep, every time I wake up in the morning I wonder what the Church of Catholicism thinks about Life Extentionists.
As far as I'm concerned about extending my own lifespan, the Catholic Church can think whatever it wants.

Hi Adam:
From what I know of the Catholic Church, they would not be against life extension. In fact they have the largest hospital system in the world. I would like to see any proof they are against as long a life as possible. (See the abortion issue) Some claims made for immortality may be doubted by people who still want long life. I feel uncomfortable with the pejorative “deathists” being hurled at anyone who doubts immortality of the physical body.

I thought the claim of the threadstarter is that the Catholic Church disagrees with immortalism on the presumption of a human soul and therefore afterlife. In addition that desire for more life beyond the observed human lifespan is a sin.

[AdamSummerfield]

Why Catholics Should Support the Transhumanist Goal of Extended Life.

[shadowhawk]

Why Catholics Should Support the Transhumanist Goal of Extended Life.

Very interesting. Thanks Adam