31 replies to this topic

[CryoBurger]

Im only about 5 days in to Resveratrol supplementation and I am blown away by my endurance changes.

I have been taking the standard 150mg of Trans-Res daily.

I actually knew little or nothing about it when i started earlier this week. Intentionally. Didn't want any placebo effect.

Going from 10 minutes walking on the treadmill with early exhaustion .... to 30 minutes on the treadmill with zero exhaustion and bouts of vigorous running, is a pretty good description of the change, in less than a week.

What I don't understad is everyone's propensity to dump the whole kitchen sink in. Why do you all feel the need to take 3g or 7 grams daily? It seems to me that people always think taking "more is better" all the time?

I actually run a health information web site with forums like these, and my users consistently do the same thing. Rather than take the prescribed dose once daily, they take 3x the dose plus 6 other things. In the end, they have no idea whats really helping them, or even possibly hurting them.

Why not just take 150mg a day for the next 20 years, enjoy living 20 years longer than you would have, and not freak out if things dont look amazingly better by next thursday? I guess I don't understand the logic of demanding immediate results, and overdoing it to get there.

My understanding of this supplement is that its a "whole life" process that provides reduced cell death over the long term, with minimal dosage. The end goal isnt that you're 6ft tall 195lbs with 8% body fat and a gorgeous tan by next summer. The end goal is you don't die at 67, you die at 92 .... right?

So 150mg daily, along with a multivitamin, and sit back .....

Disclaimer: I understand there may be studies indicating that more is better, but if I am mysteriously doing 3x the workout in less than 1 week, I think 150mg would be enough...

[2tender]

Im only about 5 days in to Resveratrol supplementation and I am blown away by my endurance changes.

I have been taking the standard 150mg of Trans-Res daily.

I actually knew little or nothing about it when i started earlier this week. Intentionally. Didn't want any placebo effect.

Going from 10 minutes walking on the treadmill with early exhaustion .... to 30 minutes on the treadmill with zero exhaustion and bouts of vigorous running, is a pretty good description of the change, in less than a week.

What I don't understad is everyone's propensity to dump the whole kitchen sink in. Why do you all feel the need to take 3g or 7 grams daily? It seems to me that people always think taking "more is better" all the time?

I actually run a health information web site with forums like these, and my users consistently do the same thing. Rather than take the prescribed dose once daily, they take 3x the dose plus 6 other things. In the end, they have no idea whats really helping them, or even possibly hurting them.

Why not just take 150mg a day for the next 20 years, enjoy living 20 years longer than you would have, and not freak out if things dont look amazingly better by next thursday? I guess I don't understand the logic of demanding immediate results, and overdoing it to get there.

My understanding of this supplement is that its a "whole life" process that provides reduced cell death over the long term, with minimal dosage. The end goal isnt that you're 6ft tall 195lbs with 8% body fat and a gorgeous tan by next summer. The end goal is you don't die at 67, you die at 92 .... right?

So 150mg daily, along with a multivitamin, and sit back .....

Disclaimer: I understand there may be studies indicating that more is better, but if I am mysteriously doing 3x the workout in less than 1 week, I think 150mg would be enough...

Thanks for your post.I think if you are five days in and feeling benefits could a hyper-responder or placebo. Please continue to post your progress. Please dont get the wrong impression about others here, not dosing prudently. The majority do stay under high ranges. There are a couple threads in which a man is mega-dosing to combat a potential health condition. Most people are using between 250 and 500 mgs of the high purity, micronized, pre-emulsified product as absorbtion is better. Im not saying, that your dose/type of product is wrong, its just that some of them have high levels of emodin and are under 95% purity, which can lead to sides.

Edited by 2tender, 15 April 2010 - 05:57 AM.

[mikeinnaples]

So 150mg daily, along with a multivitamin, and sit back .....

Except most multivitamins are pure crap and can actually be long term harmful. Case in point.... take a look at folic acid or iron in most multi's, then look at your breakfast cereal / bread / rice / tons of other FDA mandated fortified food, then do a little research on too much folic acid can do. Not to mention the forms of other items with in most multis are pure crap ...i.e. vitamin E for example. Too much Alpha Tocopherol can actually impinge other E's and increase all cause mortality.

Do a little forum searching on multi's Just sayin'

[maxwatt]

Im only about 5 days in to Resveratrol supplementation and I am blown away by my endurance changes.

I have been taking the standard 150mg of Trans-Res daily.

I actually knew little or nothing about it when i started earlier this week. Intentionally. Didn't want any placebo effect.

Going from 10 minutes walking on the treadmill with early exhaustion .... to 30 minutes on the treadmill with zero exhaustion and bouts of vigorous running, is a pretty good description of the change, in less than a week.

What I don't understad is everyone's propensity to dump the whole kitchen sink in. Why do you all feel the need to take 3g or 7 grams daily? It seems to me that people always think taking "more is better" all the time?

I actually run a health information web site with forums like these, and my users consistently do the same thing. Rather than take the prescribed dose once daily, they take 3x the dose plus 6 other things. In the end, they have no idea whats really helping them, or even possibly hurting them.

Why not just take 150mg a day for the next 20 years, enjoy living 20 years longer than you would have, and not freak out if things dont look amazingly better by next thursday? I guess I don't understand the logic of demanding immediate results, and overdoing it to get there.

My understanding of this supplement is that its a "whole life" process that provides reduced cell death over the long term, with minimal dosage. The end goal isnt that you're 6ft tall 195lbs with 8% body fat and a gorgeous tan by next summer. The end goal is you don't die at 67, you die at 92 .... right?

So 150mg daily, along with a multivitamin, and sit back .....

Disclaimer: I understand there may be studies indicating that more is better, but if I am mysteriously doing 3x the workout in less than 1 week, I think 150mg would be enough...

If only 10 minutes of walking results in exhaustion, this qualifies as an untrained state. Even a few training sessions starting in an untrained state will result in very rapid improvement, and will be very susceptible to the placebo effect. Even in a week, an increase to 30 minutes without any supplementation is quite possible. Your report, though interesting, does not prove anything regarding the effectiveness of a 150 mg dose. I wish it did; it would be more economical.

Cycling enthusiasts posting here noticed improved performance after several weeks, with doses of 500 mg or more, as much as 2 graams or more. though not an improvement by an order of magnitude. A USCF certified cycling coach noticed improvements beyond what experience said would show from training alone in the Category 1 and 2 racers he was coaching. He suspected drug use and questioned them; he found they were legally using resveratrol. He tested the effects on himself at a dose of 500 mg, using testing equipment available to him at a training center. He could measure no effect until the third block of training (at about 12 weeks if I recall) when he noted improved recovery and a continued increase in power output when a plateau or decreased performance should have been noted. Cyclist in need of Mitochondrial Biogenesis, Cyclist in need of Mitochondrial Biogenesis. The point is it took a number of weeks of supplementation to note the kind of performance improvement that would be seen from increased number of mitochondria, a known effect of resveratrol in mice.

There is no correct dose of resveratrol, nor do the moderators oficially recommend a specific dose. It has been noted that some effects contributors have noted from resveratrol are not seen with doses of less than perhaps 400 mg. If there are more subtle effects at doses of 100 grams or so, this has not been proven. Extrapolation from animal studies, and from blood plasma measurements has led some of us to believe that lower doses will not attain attain a sufficient plasma level to show the same effects seen in animal and in in vitro studies, where the concentration of resveratrol is typically many times that seen in human plasma, even with 1 gram doses and higher.

The fact is if you are using resveratrol you are self-experimenting, at any dosage. The only available human toxicology studies are short-term, though animal studies seem to support its apparent safety over a wide range of doses, at least in mice. I use it because it is more effective for my arthritis symptoms than any NSAID or prescription medication my doctor has tried on me, and with fewer side effects. This has perhaps made me seem over-enthusiastic at times. If so I apologize.

Edited by maxwatt, 15 April 2010 - 12:53 PM.

[CryoBurger]

To the last guy: it wasn't placebo. As I stated in my original post, I intentionally did not read about specific effects prior to taking it. I wanted to avoid placebo effect. I have been struggling in the gym with 15 minute exhaustion for weeks on and off. To go from that to 30 minutes with running built in, in just 4 days, I can't attribute to placebo. As much as I'd like to, I can't cure physical exhaustion with positive thinking.

In the last week I have also gone from 6-8 hours of very poor quality sleep, to 10+ hours of solid, restful sleep. This happened almost immediately. Second day. One might feel this is a result of increased workouts, but I've always worked myself to exhaustion in the gym and still not slept well.

Yes - no matter what I take, I am typically a hyper responder. I usually only need 1/2 the dose of something, to get the same effects as other people. It's been true for me with every medication I've ever taken.

I am now about a week into 150mg Resveratrol, and these are the changes I am noticing:

1) Longer sleep
2) Higher metabolism
3) Decreased exhaustion at the gym
4) Less bloating after meals
5) Beginning of weight loss

1-2 hours after taking resveratrol, I begin to get very warm, and start to sweat. Obviously my metabolism is kicking into high gear. However this increase doesn't feel unnatural or like a caffeine or jittery high. I can see why people taking Resveratrol sometimes say that they go crazy from too much energy. If you live a sedentary lifestyle, this supplement is not for you. It almost requires that you do something active. I read recently the following about how resveratol seems to peak at 30-60 minutes after ingesting, then dissipate very quickly. This would explain the effects an hour after taking it:

Metabolism and Bioavailability
Although trans-resveratrol appears to be well-absorbed by humans when taken orally, its bioavailability is relatively low due to its rapid metabolism and elimination (7, 8). Resveratrol metabolites are primarily detected upon oral exposure to trans-resveratrol. When six healthy men and women took an oral dose of 25 mg of trans-resveratrol, only traces of the unchanged resveratrol were detected in plasma (blood). Plasma concentrations of resveratrol and metabolites peaked around 60 minutes later at concentrations around 2 micromoles/liter (491 micrograms/liter) (7). A study in 12 healthy men administered an oral dose of 25 mg of trans-resveratrol per 70 kg of body weight reported that serum concentration of resveratrol and metabolites peaked at 30 minutes after administration. The concentration of total resveratrol (resveratrol and metabolites) ranged from 416 to 471 micrograms/liter, depending on whether resveratrol was administered in wine, vegetable juice, or grape juice (9). Results of another study suggested that the bioavailability of resveratrol from grape juice, which contains mostly glucosides of resveratrol (piceid), may be even lower than that of trans-resveratrol (10). A recent study reported that bioavailability of trans-resveratrol from red wine did not differ when the wine was consumed with a meal (low- or high-fat) versus on an empty stomach (11).

I am about 6ft tall 195lbs with a consistent workout and minor spare tire around the middle. In the last 7 days I have already lost weight, and thinned out. My stomach is flattening, and the food I eat is not making me feel bulky or bloated anymore. I seem to be digesting better.

The downside is that I am still trying to gain size in the gym muscle-wise. There is NO DOUBT I am thinning out and getting more cut, but my muscle "bulk" is decreasing. Really that is probably just water retention going down, and fat layer going down. Im going to have to figure out how to keep the muscle size up, while allowing the small layer of fat to go down. People have commented that i look skinnier. Again - im a guy who can gain and lose 10lbs in a week easily based on external factors, so this is a similar effect to anything that would increase my metabolism. But its definitely doing something.

My muscles feel tighter, and more noticeable after during, and after workouts. Its a similar feeling to working out when you're skinny versus working out when you're overweight. When you're overweight you dont feel them as much, but when thin, they seem more apparent, and you can feel the swelling and soreness more. Things feel "Tight" ... both in my stomach, and arms and shoulders.

I did wake up with quite a headache today however, of no explanation.

Edited by CryoBurger, 16 April 2010 - 08:54 PM.

[maxwatt]

To the last guy: it wasn't placebo. As I stated in my original post, I intentionally did not read about specific effects prior to taking it. I wanted to avoid placebo effect. I have been struggling in the gym with 15 minute exhaustion for weeks on and off. To go from that to 30 minutes with running built in, in just 4 days, I can't attribute to placebo. As much as I'd like to, I can't cure physical exhaustion with positive thinking.

.....

This is still indistinguishable from a placebo effect. Just because you didn't know exactly what to expect, does not mean you weren't expecting something. Even a few exercise sessions in an untrained person can result in immense improvements. With a sample size of one may be interesting anecdotally, you need a larger sample size and a double blind protocol to avoid possible confounding by the placebo effect.

Resveratrol's poor bioavailability is why some people take larger doses, to swamp the enzymes that flush it from the system. People to vary greatly in the efficiency of these enzymes.

I am, however, very glad that you are experiencing positive effects from your regimen.

Perhaps your headache is a reaction to high pollen levels? If you live in the Northeast. pollen levels are extremely high due to sudden and early warmth. Most people are at least somewhat uncomfortable from this.

Edited by maxwatt, 16 April 2010 - 10:36 PM.

[CryoBurger]

This is still indistinguishable from a placebo effect.

Matt, you clearly want everything to be a placebo effect, so why dont you just decide it is that, and stop posting in this thread? You're not contributing anything to this thread except undying, blind skepticism. You've already made your point once. In fact you were wrong in your assumptions the first time, claiming it was a result of sudden increase in training when in fact id been doing this for months already. Gotta take another stab?

Even a few exercise sessions in an untrained person can result in immense improvements

Did you bother reading my response above? I've been working out for nearly 10 years. Consistently. 3 times a week. You already struck out with this argument in your first post. Why repeat it? You feel that I am so lacking in intelligence, that im incapable of determining when something is a result of increased effort?

There is nothing more irritaing than a naysayer who himself has no information to back up his naysaying. You seem to be a big fan of facts and numbers and proof. Why do you make assessments of my results when you dont have the necessary background information to comment in the first place? You contradict yourself.

Is it also placebo effect that at 3.7 speed and 5.0 incline, my heart rate mysteriously began to drop this week? That I no longer struggle and my heart no longer pounds? That I was reporting a 146 rate and at the end of this week am down to 133? That I now do those settings with absolutely zero effort?

Naturally you will say that is placebo effect, because you're just "that guy" on the internet who likes to scream "placebo effect!" a lot. That's your thing. That's fine. You've got a placebo effect going about placebo effects, oddly enough. Ironic.

Here's a newsflash from captain obvious (me in this case):

This is a discussion forum.

*EVERYTHING* here is subjective user experience, unverified by a physician, and not in a controlled environment.

So its no shocker that you could call everything "placebo effect". Because nothing is being measured. Or compared. Or verified.

So please ... you've made your point.

Edited by CryoBurger, 17 April 2010 - 01:47 AM.

[maxwatt]

This is still indistinguishable from a placebo effect.

Matt, you clearly want everything to be a placebo effect, so why dont you just decide it is that, and stop posting in this thread? You're not contributing anything to this thread except undying, blind skepticism. You've already made your point once. In fact you were wrong in your assumptions the first time, claiming it was a result of sudden increase in training when in fact id been doing this for months already. Gotta take another stab?

Even a few exercise sessions in an untrained person can result in immense improvements

Did you bother reading my response above? I've been working out for nearly 10 years. Consistently. 3 times a week. You already struck out with this argument in your first post. Why repeat it? You feel that I am so lacking in intelligence, that im incapable of determining when something is a result of increased effort?

There is nothing more irritaing than a naysayer who himself has no information to back up his naysaying. You seem to be a big fan of facts and numbers and proof. Why do you make assessments of my results when you dont have the necessary background information to comment in the first place? You contradict yourself.

Is it also placebo effect that at 3.7 speed and 5.0 incline, my heart rate mysteriously began to drop this week? That I no longer struggle and my heart no longer pounds? That I was reporting a 146 rate and at the end of this week am down to 133? That I now do those settings with absolutely zero effort?

Naturally you will say that is placebo effect, because you're just "that guy" on the internet who likes to scream "placebo effect!" a lot. That's your thing. That's fine. You've got a placebo effect going about placebo effects, oddly enough. Ironic.

Here's a newsflash from captain obvious (me in this case):

This is a discussion forum.

*EVERYTHING* here is subjective user experience, unverified by a physician, and not in a controlled environment.

So its no shocker that you could call everything "placebo effect". Because nothing is being measured. Or compared. Or verified.

So please ... you've made your point.

If I've made my point, you seem not to have heard it. I cannot understand how if you have been working out for 10 years, you were only able to walk on a treadmill for 10 minutes before exhaustion forced you to stop. And if you knew you were taking resveratrol, whether or not you knew the specific effects others had reported, then you cannot rule out a placebo effect. I do not believe mitochondrial biogenesis can explain it, it would take more than a week. Possibly other effects of resveratrol, such as nf-Kappa-B inhibition reducing inflammation so that you do not feel exhausted, might explain such an effect. Unless you had some limiting factor that resveratrol removed, such an improvement in so short a time is unexpected.

Going from 10 minutes walking on the treadmill with early exhaustion .... to 30 minutes on the treadmill with zero exhaustion and bouts of vigorous running, is a pretty good description of the change, in less than a week.

The rate of increase in your fitness that you describe is certainly remarkable. If I didn't know resveratrol was a wonder supplement, I'd certainly say it strains credibility. Do let us know of your further progress. I don't doubt that you are feeling better, and that much of it is due to resveratrol; as long as you are keeping careful records, it would belie any tendency to exaggerate.

[2tender]

This is still indistinguishable from a placebo effect.

Matt, you clearly want everything to be a placebo effect, so why dont you just decide it is that, and stop posting in this thread? You're not contributing anything to this thread except undying, blind skepticism. You've already made your point once. In fact you were wrong in your assumptions the first time, claiming it was a result of sudden increase in training when in fact id been doing this for months already. Gotta take another stab?

Even a few exercise sessions in an untrained person can result in immense improvements

Did you bother reading my response above? I've been working out for nearly 10 years. Consistently. 3 times a week. You already struck out with this argument in your first post. Why repeat it? You feel that I am so lacking in intelligence, that im incapable of determining when something is a result of increased effort?

There is nothing more irritaing than a naysayer who himself has no information to back up his naysaying. You seem to be a big fan of facts and numbers and proof. Why do you make assessments of my results when you dont have the necessary background information to comment in the first place? You contradict yourself.

Is it also placebo effect that at 3.7 speed and 5.0 incline, my heart rate mysteriously began to drop this week? That I no longer struggle and my heart no longer pounds? That I was reporting a 146 rate and at the end of this week am down to 133? That I now do those settings with absolutely zero effort?

Naturally you will say that is placebo effect, because you're just "that guy" on the internet who likes to scream "placebo effect!" a lot. That's your thing. That's fine. You've got a placebo effect going about placebo effects, oddly enough. Ironic.

Here's a newsflash from captain obvious (me in this case):

This is a discussion forum.

*EVERYTHING* here is subjective user experience, unverified by a physician, and not in a controlled environment.

So its no shocker that you could call everything "placebo effect". Because nothing is being measured. Or compared. Or verified.

So please ... you've made your point.

If I've made my point, you seem not to have heard it. I cannot understand how if you have been working out for 10 years, you were only able to walk on a treadmill for 10 minutes before exhaustion forced you to stop. And if you knew you were taking resveratrol, whether or not you knew the specific effects others had reported, then you cannot rule out a placebo effect. I do not believe mitochondrial biogenesis can explain it, it would take more than a week. Possibly other effects of resveratrol, such as nf-Kappa-B inhibition reducing inflammation so that you do not feel exhausted, might explain such an effect. Unless you had some limiting factor that resveratrol removed, such an improvement in so short a time is unexpected.

Going from 10 minutes walking on the treadmill with early exhaustion .... to 30 minutes on the treadmill with zero exhaustion and bouts of vigorous running, is a pretty good description of the change, in less than a week.

The rate of increase in your fitness that you describe is certainly remarkable. If I didn't know resveratrol was a wonder supplement, I'd certainly say it strains credibility. Do let us know of your further progress. I don't doubt that you are feeling better, and that much of it is due to resveratrol; as long as you are keeping careful records, it would belie any tendency to exaggerate.

Agreed, I want to mention that if the extremely low dose has done this much in such a short period of time, with or without the use of androgens, I wouldnt take it daily or increase it. A physiological paradox could be induced, wherein your muscles will not respond to hypertrophic training and thats no fun. I think you may be experiencing this already and it sounds like its directly from the Resveratrol. To lessen this effect I would stop all cardio and just lift weights with short rest periods between sets. I would throw in low dose micronized creapure to offset the loss of muscle volume and force feed calories, as Resveratrol has an affect on appetite in some people. There arent many men that excercise to have smaller muscles, so Resveratrols slimming side effects, if you are pre-dispoed to them should be noted and counteracted by the appropriate changes in diet, regimen, etc.

[CryoBurger]

Update -

Apparently I was only taking 75mg of the stuff. One serving is 2 capsules. So today I took two capsules. The sweating an hour post ingestion has died down significantly. Then again I've also lost weight, so maybe that's why. The scale says I am a lower weight by nearly 5lbs - but the readout on the digital display is probably the power of my mind to affect things (placebo). I didnt really have 5lbs to lose. It may have induced some water retention loss. At the gym I literally have been drenching a towel this past week. When im standing there dripping head to toe in sweat, i think about the amazing placebo effect I am having on myself, and just wish I could make my penis bigger with it instead. Not sure why my brain wants me to sweat so much and feel so hot, and lose weight. But apparently its all in my mind!

In any case, all of this has died down the last day or two. I really exercised myself to exhaustion lately - because now I can - and I am feeling somewhat worn down. So im going to rest a bit. This isnt a daily type thing. Its long term. So ill post back here with any ongoing changes. Assuming every time I come here I dont get told im imagining it.

-C-

[2tender]

Update -

Apparently I was only taking 75mg of the stuff. One serving is 2 capsules. So today I took two capsules. The sweating an hour post ingestion has died down significantly. Then again I've also lost weight, so maybe that's why. The scale says I am a lower weight by nearly 5lbs - but the readout on the digital display is probably the power of my mind to affect things (placebo). I didnt really have 5lbs to lose. It may have induced some water retention loss. At the gym I literally have been drenching a towel this past week. When im standing there dripping head to toe in sweat, i think about the amazing placebo effect I am having on myself, and just wish I could make my penis bigger with it instead. Not sure why my brain wants me to sweat so much and feel so hot, and lose weight. But apparently its all in my mind!

In any case, all of this has died down the last day or two. I really exercised myself to exhaustion lately - because now I can - and I am feeling somewhat worn down. So im going to rest a bit. This isnt a daily type thing. Its long term. So ill post back here with any ongoing changes. Assuming every time I come here I dont get told im imagining it.

-C-

Thanks for posting. Some of the effects you mentioned are similar to what others have posted amd experienced. Placebo ? Well, there is much to say about that, however, if it is working for you and you dont feel as if you are getting any unhealthy sides or overtraining, perhaps the effect will diminish or level off. I think that as long as you arent losing any strength in your lifts it should be okay.

[CryoBurger]

I upped my dose from 75mg to 150mg as mentioned above.

Monday morning I woke up with severe pain in my wrist. Its an injury I had when i was a kid that only seems to hurt once every 6 months. Almost always when I have inflammation going on in my body. Almost never have problems with it. But even as I am typing this now, its hurting like crazy. Every 10 seconds or so.

This could be coincidental as far as timing, but its definitely not something im creating in my head.

I upped my dose on Friday but I also stopped on Sat & Sun. I thought Res reduces inflammation. Maybe a reflex increase in inflammation from not taking it for 2 days?

Do people report having a resurgence of pain or a return of old injuries while on Resveratrol?

=====================
Edit: by the way - Max - im confused about something. I just took a look at the 3 page thread titled "Resveratrol = muscle and arthritis". There must be about 20 guys in there who are reporting "Oustanding gains" in endurance in "incredibly short" periods of time - one even commenting that he was mysteriously able to introduce "Sprinting" into his cardio. Almost verbatim to my first post. Why did you feel my gains were "all in my head" when i see you actively participating in that other thread, which is drowning in guys reporting the exact same results?

Edited by CryoBurger, 19 April 2010 - 06:55 PM.

[2tender]

IMO, I dont think you've been taking it long enough to attribute any sides except gastrointestinal or stomach problems, to it.Resveratrol isnt as anti-inflammatory as aspirin is. Not being critical here, just objective. If you search this site for "Resveratrol, joint pain" there may be some threads. Maxwatt is the most educated poster here, also, Niner, look for their postings.

[CryoBurger]

IMO, I dont think you've been taking it long enough to attribute any sides except gastrointestinal or stomach problems, to it.Resveratrol isnt as anti-inflammatory as aspirin is. Not being critical here, just objective. If you search this site for "Resveratrol, joint pain" there may be some threads. Maxwatt is the most educated poster here, also, Niner, look for their postings.

Not sure what's causing it but its been hurting all day. Im about to go to bed and hope that I dont end up unable to sleep from it.

[brundall]

IMO, I dont think you've been taking it long enough to attribute any sides except gastrointestinal or stomach problems, to it.Resveratrol isnt as anti-inflammatory as aspirin is. Not being critical here, just objective. If you search this site for "Resveratrol, joint pain" there may be some threads. Maxwatt is the most educated poster here, also, Niner, look for their postings.

Not sure what's causing it but its been hurting all day. Im about to go to bed and hope that I dont end up unable to sleep from it.

Do you know what your vitamin D levels are and are you taking any D supplements? Seems to me that few people who are experiencing joint/tendon pain with resveratrol seemed to improve with increased vitamin D intake.

I take 100mg per day of trans resveratrol at the moment and am OK on it but as soon as I increase the dose to 250mg I get alsmost instant tendonitis pain behind my knees. Weird huh?

[Anthony_Loera]

LEF's Res is doing that to you? 3 hours after you take it? As I understand it, it has Quercetin in it.

Some folks think it's the Quercetin that is the problem.

Seems like that is a bit odd. The 3 hours I mean...
I never had issues, and do take much more resveratrol than you brundall.

Cheers

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 20 April 2010 - 05:25 PM.

[brundall]

LEF's Res is doing that to you? 3 hours after you take it? As I understand it, it has Quercetin in it.

Some folks think it's the Quercetin that is the problem.

Seems like that is a bit odd. The 3 hours I mean...
I never had issues, and do take much more resveratrol than you brundall.

Cheers

Yes - it was the LEF product with the Quercetin in it. I wonder if it is the Quercetin itself causing the pain or whether it makes the Resveratrol more potent in the body. I will try a different product soon without it and report back.

[CryoBurger]

Hi all - well I take a multi vitamin that contains 400IU of Vitamin D3 ... but that's all.

This is the Resveratrol I am taking. Got it at Whole Foods.

The back says: Japanese Knotweed Root (polygonum Cuspidatum) + 350mg
Delivering 150mg trans-Resveratrol

Attached Files

•  rez.jpg   180.09KB   16 downloads

Edited by CryoBurger, 21 April 2010 - 01:37 AM.

[niner]

Hi all - well I take a multi vitamin that contains 400IU of Vitamin D3 ... but that's all.

This is the Resveratrol I am taking. Got it at Whole Foods.

The back says: Japanese Knotweed Root (polygonum Cuspidatum) + 350mg
Delivering 150mg trans-Resveratrol

This might explain some of your response- weight loss, more energy... these are typical of the non-resveratrol polyphenols that are found in polygonum cuspidatum. "The other 50%", as it were. If you switch to a higher purity resveratrol, you may see a more typical resveratrol response. (Which might not be what you're looking for...) You should probably get a higher dose vitamin D3, around 2000IU. Make sure it's an oil-based (softgel) formulation, since the dry versions are not well absorbed. Even if you don't have tendon problems from resveratrol, D3 is still hugely important.

[2tender]

IMO, I dont think you've been taking it long enough to attribute any sides except gastrointestinal or stomach problems, to it.Resveratrol isnt as anti-inflammatory as aspirin is. Not being critical here, just objective. If you search this site for "Resveratrol, joint pain" there may be some threads. Maxwatt is the most educated poster here, also, Niner, look for their postings.

Not sure what's causing it but its been hurting all day. Im about to go to bed and hope that I dont end up unable to sleep from it.

Ok, I didnt think of it before although, I do mention it in other posts. The aches, etc. that I experienced were directly attributable to the high emodin content, and other additives of a Resveratrol supplement that I no longer take. I know this is anecdotal and a guess, but the Resveratrol supplement you take is a 50% extract, with a high emodin content. Emodin can cause various effects such as you describe. Switching to a pure extracted product may eliminate those aches. A bulk micronized product is available, I use it at half a scoop 4 to 5 times a week and have had no side effects.

[2tender]

Hi all - well I take a multi vitamin that contains 400IU of Vitamin D3 ... but that's all.

This is the Resveratrol I am taking. Got it at Whole Foods.

The back says: Japanese Knotweed Root (polygonum Cuspidatum) + 350mg
Delivering 150mg trans-Resveratrol

This might explain some of your response- weight loss, more energy... these are typical of the non-resveratrol polyphenols that are found in polygonum cuspidatum. "The other 50%", as it were. If you switch to a higher purity resveratrol, you may see a more typical resveratrol response. (Which might not be what you're looking for...) You should probably get a higher dose vitamin D3, around 2000IU. Make sure it's an oil-based (softgel) formulation, since the dry versions are not well absorbed. Even if you don't have tendon problems from resveratrol, D3 is still hugely important.

Agreed, I have found that using the best supplements available are better value in the long term.

[CryoBurger]

Thanks guys. I noticed all the Resveratrol supplements at whole foods (there were about 5 brands) all had something different on the back as their "source". So I had no idea which to grab.

Where can I obtain the kind you guys are referring to? it has to be online?

[Anthony_Loera]

Send a letter or email to Wholefoods, and let them know to carry the brands that folks talk about here.

Here are some emails:
allison.enke@wholefoods.com, roberta.gentile@wholefoods.com, jeff.haas@wholefoods.com

Cheers
A

[sagecucumber]

Even a few exercise sessions in an untrained person can result in immense improvements

Did you bother reading my response above? I've been working out for nearly 10 years. Consistently. 3 times a week. You already struck out with this argument in your first post. Why repeat it? You feel that I am so lacking in intelligence, that im incapable of determining when something is a result of increased effort?

I can't begin to imagine what kind of game you're playing, but you can't possibly expect people to believe you would be exhausted after ten minutes of walking if you've been exercising 3 times a week for ten years. Unless you're 95 years old. are you?

[joe57777]

So 150mg daily, along with a multivitamin, and sit back .....

Except most multivitamins are pure crap and can actually be long term harmful. Case in point.... take a look at folic acid or iron in most multi's, then look at your breakfast cereal / bread / rice / tons of other FDA mandated fortified food, then do a little research on too much folic acid can do. Not to mention the forms of other items with in most multis are pure crap ...i.e. vitamin E for example. Too much Alpha Tocopherol can actually impinge other E's and increase all cause mortality.

Do a little forum searching on multi's Just sayin'

This is the way I see it. Resveratrol is good if it increases endurance, lowers blood sugar, is anti-cancer, helps your heart, improve libido, is a good chelator, etc... If it can do some or all of those things, then it has to improve the quality of life and may just help us to live longer. I get the purity part and the micronization. However, where the confusion comes in is where many people talk about different doses and different absorption levels. Then some say to take resveratrol every other day, skip a month, etc. While I understand that the dosage is not standardized yet, people have been taking resveratrol in their own dosage and strengths for a while now. Therefore, they should have reports on what effects they are seeing in regards to endurance, blood sugar, cholesterol, libido, etc. I would think there would be enough self human testing out there, especially on this forum site alone, where people could come up with a standardized minimum Resveratrol dosage that should work for most everybody to help with the above mentioned issues. However, instead of taking resveratrol alone, many people mix in Quercetin, Cuminum, grape seed, D3, B-12, B6, Flax, melatonin, etc. Therefore, adding these variables just confuses people. Because how then would we know if it is the resveratrol or any of the other supplements that is actually helping our health in those mentioned areas? What, does resveratrol not achieve these goals on it's own? People tune into this resveratrol forum only to most likely get the strong impression that in order for resveratrol to help you, again, with many important areas of your health, that you have to come up with some combination of several other substances along with resveratrol taken at different times, strengths, and quantities. I would like to know where these people come up with their different regimens. What website, phone number to call, and or medical journal do I have to interact with in order to find the information that shows why I need to be on one of these certain daily regimens of substances along with resveratrol in order for resveratrol to assist with the above mentioned areas of my health?

I hope people see my point here?

[Anthony_Loera]

joe57777,

no one ever said to take resveratrol, and drop all other vitamins and supplements.

As for studies, simply look these up in google scholar. Folks here tend to look at studies and provide opinions regarding possible combinations such as Resveratrol + Curcumin.

It is certainly possible, that folks here who have access to these Journals also tend to understand the science behind such molecules a bit more than the average bear.

So if your question is... which website do I go to to get the latest on resveratrol? Well, you are actually posting in it my friend. I suggest you look at the search function here on this forum, or if you prefer use google by limiting your results to only those found on this site:

You can do this by typing in your search citeria, and ending it with "site:imminst.org" such as in the example below:

curcumin resveratrol site:imminst.org


You can also read the super resveratrol thread here that is been going on for close to 3 years:
http://www.imminst.o...day-t14124.html

Have fun searching!

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 23 April 2010 - 03:06 PM.

[joe57777]

,

joe57777,

no one ever said to take resveratrol, and drop all other vitamins and supplements.

As for studies, simply look these up in google scholar. Folks here tend to look at studies and provide opinions regarding possible combinations such as Resveratrol + Curcumin.

It is certainly possible, that folks here who have access to these Journals also tend to understand the science behind such molecules a bit more than the average bear.

So if your question is... which website do I go to to get the latest on resveratrol? Well, you are actually posting in it my friend. I suggest you look at the search function here on this forum, or if you prefer use google by limiting your results to only those found on this site:

You can do this by typing in your search citeria, and ending it with "site:imminst.org" such as in the example below:

curcumin resveratrol site:imminst.org


You can also read the super resveratrol thread here that is been going on for close to 3 years:
http://www.imminst.o...day-t14124.html

Have fun searching!

Cheers
A

Anthony,

Thanks for the links. However, I am sorry that you mis-understood the point that I was trying to make in my post. I never implied that any forum ever suggested that anyone take resveratrol and stop taking their other vitamins or supplements. My point is simply that when the 60 Minutes broadcast was aired on TV about Resveratrol, Dr. Sinclair's experiments with mice consisted of using resveratrol by itself no quercetin, no curcumin, no other vitamins or minerals or other substances. These experiments were trying to prove that resveratrol could mimic calorie restriction and therefore prolong life in mice, fish, yeast, and some other non-human subjects. Since then, a report on calorie restriction came out that determined that calorie restriction would only maybe add only up to 3 years more to a human life. Probably not what many expected. Somewhere near the time that report came out, another report came out that determined that resveratrol does not mimic calorie restriction and does not prolong life in that sense anyway. However, resveratrol is said to help humans possibly prolong human life by controlling or eliminating some important age related diseases like diabetes, weight, hormone levels, heart disease, some cancers, and more. In addition, resveratrol has been said to increase energy and endurance levels in humans as well as helping with male libido issues. Now to my main question: If humans are experimenting with resveratrol to see if it indeed helps them with some or all of these helpful benefits that resveratrol is said to provide but are taking in many more substances along with resveratrol, how do these people know if it is actually the resveratrol that is helping them in these important health areas and not some or one of the other substances that there are taking? Because if resveratrol is helping with all of these health issues, why waste your money on other substances? In other words, I would be testing resveratrol by itself first to see what health issues what health issues it helps with. Also, I would see if it increases my endurance and energy levels. If after this self experimentation with resveratrol by itself, I determined that I needed to add other substances to my daily regimen to see if I could get further health benefits from any of those, I would then simply add substances one by one to my daily regimen to see if they which ones offered any extra health benefits to justify adding them permanently to my daily regimen before spending any extra money on substances that I do not need.

That was my point Anthony. Does anyone else agree with me or have the same concern?

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Joe,

your post sounds a bit confusing. Let me see if I can summarize it.
I have edited a few sentences to make them clear to my understanding:

First an assertion:
You stated that anyone taking resveratrol should not stop taking their other vitamins or supplements.

You then state:
Resveratrol is said to help humans possibly prolong human life by controlling or eliminating some important age related diseases like diabetes, weight, hormone levels, heart disease, some cancers, and more. In addition, resveratrol has been said to increase energy and endurance levels in humans as well as helping with male libido issues.

Then your questions appear to be:
1- How do people know if you should take reveratrol on it's own?
2- Is it better to combine it with other things?
3- How do folks that are taking resveratrol, know if it is the resveratrol or other things causing the benefits?
4- How do these people know if it is actually the resveratrol that is helping them in these important health areas and not some or one of the other substances that there are taking?

You then propose:
To test resveratrol combinations in stages, first by itself to see any benefits. Then by adding a separate supplement, and see if the combination shows other benefits than what resveratrol may produce.

My thoughts:
Overall, I like the idea, however it would be quite time consuming when randomly selecting the 'other things' to combine resveratrol with. I believe most here look toward studies to find possible suitable combinations that seem interesting and found in studies to be tested in vitro or en vivo. Without some direction from studies, it is simply impractical for anyone to consider.

Again if you want to go forward with testing your combinations, please start by searching the forums here so that you don't re-invent the wheel when considering new combinations (use google or the forum search method at the top of the page). Again you are posting to the forum that has delved into resveratrol questions and studies for the last 3 years, possibly longer. I expect no other forum to have such a complete compilation of information and discussion anywhere else:


I remind you to also read the super resveratrol thread here that is been going on for close to 3 years:
http://www.imminst.o...day-t14124.html

Also, remember how to use google to search this forum. It is a powerful way to search for information in these forums (see example here):

Google query to search for 'curcumin' and 'resveratrol' on this forum looks like this:
curcumin resveratrol site:imminst.org

This will then produce these results in google:
http://www.google.co...=...q=&gs_rfai=

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 25 April 2010 - 03:09 PM.

[joe57777]

Hi Joe,

your post sounds a bit confusing. Let me see if I can summarize it.
I have edited a few sentences to make them clear to my understanding:

First an assertion:
You stated that anyone taking resveratrol should not stop taking their other vitamins or supplements.

You then state:
Resveratrol is said to help humans possibly prolong human life by controlling or eliminating some important age related diseases like diabetes, weight, hormone levels, heart disease, some cancers, and more. In addition, resveratrol has been said to increase energy and endurance levels in humans as well as helping with male libido issues.

Then your questions appear to be:
1- How do people know if you should take reveratrol on it's own?
2- Is it better to combine it with other things?
3- How do folks that are taking resveratrol, know if it is the resveratrol or other things causing the benefits?
4- How do these people know if it is actually the resveratrol that is helping them in these important health areas and not some or one of the other substances that there are taking?

You then propose:
To test resveratrol combinations in stages, first by itself to see any benefits. Then by adding a separate supplement, and see if the combination shows other benefits than what resveratrol may produce.

My thoughts:
Overall, I like the idea, however it would be quite time consuming when randomly selecting the 'other things' to combine resveratrol with. I believe most here look toward studies to find possible suitable combinations that seem interesting and found in studies to be tested in vitro or en vivo. Without some direction from studies, it is simply impractical for anyone to consider.

Again if you want to go forward with testing your combinations, please start by searching the forums here so that you don't re-invent the wheel when considering new combinations (use google or the forum search method at the top of the page). Again you are posting to the forum that has delved into resveratrol questions and studies for the last 3 years, possibly longer. I expect no other forum to have such a complete compilation of information and discussion anywhere else:


I remind you to also read the super resveratrol thread here that is been going on for close to 3 years:
http://www.imminst.o...day-t14124.html

Also, remember how to use google to search this forum. It is a powerful way to search for information in these forums (see example here):

Google query to search for 'curcumin' and 'resveratrol' on this forum looks like this:
curcumin resveratrol site:imminst.org

This will then produce these results in google:
http://www.google.co...=...q=&gs_rfai=

Thanks Anthony for giving me those other links to read. However, you are still missing my point. I am not saying that anybody has to give up their daily vitamin regimen while they are taking resveratrol. That is not my point anyway. My point is simply that whatever thread or topic about resveratrol that you read in this forum website, there are people that are taking different brands of resveratrol along with other supplements that make up their own personal daily regimens which is fine. In fact, there are probably not many daily regimens that are exactly the same. Therefore, that is where the confusion comes in. If I am tuning into these resveratrol threads and trying to decide which brand of resveratrol and what dosage is best for me to use in a daily regimen along with which other supplements to use with the resveratrol while at the same time trying not to "over do it with extra supplements that I may not need because I may be at least one or two supplements that provide the same benefits to me" which in that case I would be "overspending" on products that I do not need, this forum does not narrow it down for me nearly enough! Example, Anthony, forget you are a salesman for a moment and you are looking for a daily supplementation regimen that includes resveratrol and you have read everything in this imminst.org forum about resveratrol there is to read as well as all the information on supporting supplements that supposedly compliment resveratrol, tell me Anthony which brand of resveratrol and what supplements would you choose to take along with it in a daily regimen and how you came to that conclusion? Maybe you can do this easily, but for the average person (or for most people) that are just trying to learn about resveratrol, this forum can be a "nightmare". There is just two much "conflicting" information. Way too many choices. Who do you believe has the best daily regimen. Please do not tell me that everyone is different, because that is not true (for the most part) in this sense. One example would be, if someone has a headache and you tell he or she to take Ibuprofen. It then should not matter which brand of Ibuprofen that they take. Any brand is still Ibuprofen and it should take care of his or her headache. Like resveratrol is resveratrol and any brand of resveratrol that is the same potency and dosage should also give the same effects. Therefore, you do not need to tell someone to take a supplement along with resveratrol that will provide the same benefit as resveratrol. That would be only a "waste of money". Now, relating this same "train of thought" to the Ibupofen. You would not tell someone that has a headache to not only take Ibupofen but to also take aspirin or tylenol. That would be "overkill" for the headache and again a waste of money. It would make more sense to tell the person to take instead of maybe two Ibuprofen tablets to take three or four if his or her headache is bad enough. I am sure that you see my point here Anthony. Therefore, I will ask you, with your all your imminst.org forum experience and knowledge of resveratrol as well as all of the supplements that go with resveratrol, what daily regimen would you have me take? I am soon to be 53 year-old male in good physical shape no diabetes, no high blood pressure, no heart problems, fairly physically active through my seasonal work, but I am slightly overweight at the moment at 5' 6" about 180 lbs. I would like to drop 15 to 20 lbs.

I hope you understand this time.

Thanks!

[Anthony_Loera]

Joe,

You have different things going on with your post:

1- There is 50% resveratrol , 98%-99% Resveratrol, 98%-99% Micronized Resveratrol, some emulsified some not, many with COA's and Many without COA's. Eventually I predict many brands produce COA's to show their high quality, that is the reason I do not talk about a particular brand. Here is my sales pitch, find a brand of Resveratrol that fits your needs and price range with a United States Laboratory COA, that can be verified (COA's typically show the name, address and phone number of the lab at the top).

2- I will take my sales man hat off, and let you know that If you start naming brands while asking for dosage help... I will simply assume you are selling something and will be instantly turned off by your posts. The fact is that there are decent resveratrol products out there from companies that provide verifiable COA's (from 2010), it is up to you to exercise your understanding of the industry and it's faults, so that you can be confident in your decision to choose a company and it's products. Why take my brand recommendation over others when you can do this exercise without help?

3- If you simply cannot wait, want someone to yell out a brand to buy, or do not want to do a bit of digging, maybe this forum is not for you. (I am putting my sales hat back on now...) The fact is that the best customers I have, are those that spent time doing this exercise.

4- What benefits do you seek from resveratrol? I believe that many benefits resveratrol provides are dose dependent, so you need to be clear about what you want before asking the "what do you recommend" question. If you are only looking to inhibit platelet aggregation, then consider red wine or cups of whole grapes as inhibition of platelet aggregation appears to be one of the few items that resveratrol does, that doesn't seem to be dose dependent. Other benefits, appear to require much more resveratrol than what is found in red wine. So what do you why are you considering resveratrol? What benefit are you aiming for?

Is the benefit that you are looking for simply to lose 15 - 20 lbs?
Maybe this study may help you consider your trial dose to see if it affects you in the same manner as a rodent:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....0?dopt=Abstract

Will it work? It appeared to work for the rodents. I suppose you would need to have others chime in to see if it is feasible it may work in humans.

A