75 replies to this topic

[bobdrake12]

http://www.gurufocus...ws.php?id=90658

Marc Faber: governments are taking over and will bankrupt us all

The world is doomed because the governments are taking over and will bankrupt us, says Marc Faber, editor & publisher at The Gloom, Boom & Doom Report. He also tells co-guest host Michael Yoshikami, founder, president and chief investment strategist at YCMNet Advisor, CNBC's Bernard Lo and Karen Tso. that the Goldman fraud case was mainly political.

Despite being characteristically negative towards the US government’s meddling of economy, Faber made some interesting remark on the market. Market could go much higher because of the unprecedented amount of stimulus. But Market’s climbing only serve the purpose to give us something to play with before the government bankrupt us all – quite a conspiracy theory.

One firm Faber likes is the troubled Goldman Sachs. He thinks the firm is actually a relatively good firm with a strong compliance department. The firm’s being singled out by SEC serves political purposes of boosting the administration’s popularity among the the middle class.

.Click here to watch the CNBC video

Your thoughts?

[Lallante]

Horribly written article ("the market could go much higher"? Even a middle-schooler should be able to phrase that more accurately), horribly stupid interviewee.

[bobdrake12]

Horribly written article ("the market could go much higher"? Even a middle-schooler should be able to phrase that more accurately), horribly stupid interviewee.

A little bit on Marc Faber's background:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Marc_Faber

Faber was born in Zürich and schooled in Geneva, Switzerland where he raced for the Swiss National Ski Team. He studied Economics at the University of Zurich and, at the age of 24, obtained a Ph.D. degree in Economics magna cum laude.[1] Faber is best known for the Gloom Boom & Doom Report newsletter and its related web site featuring "Dance of Death" paintings created by Kaspar Meglinger.[2]

During the 1970s Faber worked for White Weld & Company Limited in New York City, Zürich, and Hong Kong. He moved to Hong Kong in 1973. He was a managing director at Drexel Burnham Lambert Ltd Hong Kong[3] from the beginning of 1978 until the firm's collapse in 1990. In 1990, he set up his own business, Marc Faber Limited. Faber now resides in Chiangmai, Thailand, though he keeps a small office in Hong Kong.[4]

Faber has a reputation for being a contrarian investor and has been called "Doctor Doom" for a number of years. He was the subject of a book written by Nury Vittachi in 1998 entitled Doctor Doom - Riding the Millennial Storm - Marc Faber's Path to Profit in the Financial Crisis.[5][6] Faber has become a frequent speaker in various forums and makes numerous appearances on television around the world including various CNBC and Bloomberg outlets, as well as on internet venues like Jim Puplava's internet radio show.[7] He has also been a participant of the Barron's Roundtable.[8]

Click here to watch the video: Peter Schiff, Marc Faber, Gerald Celente... were all right!

[bobdrake12]

Could Marc Faber be correct that the "governments are taking over and will bankrupt us all"?

http://www.washingto...2700785_pf.html

Europe debt crisis spreads to Portugal (excerpts)

By NICHOLAS PAPHITIS and PAN PYLAS
The Associated Press
Tuesday, April 27, 2010; 8:18 PM



ATHENS -- Greece was pushed to the brink of a financial abyss and started dragging another eurozone country - Portugal - down with it Tuesday, fueling fears of a continent-wide debt meltdown.

Stocks around the world tanked when ratings agency Standard & Poor's downgraded Greek bonds to junk status and downgraded Portugese bonds two notches, showing investors that Greece's financial contagion is spreading.

Major European exchanges fell more than 2.5 percent, and on Wall Street, the Dow Jones industrial average finished down more than 200 points. The euro slid more than 1 percent to nearly an eight-month low.

"We have the makings of a market crisis here," said Neil Mackinnon, global macro strategist at VTB Capital.

Greece is struggling with massive debt, and with prospects for economic growth weak it could end up in default. Its 15 eurozone partners and the International Monetary Fund have tried to calm the markets with a euro45 billion rescue package, but it hasn't worked.

Standard & Poor's warned that holders of Greek debt could take large losses in any restructuring, but a greater worry is that Greece's debt crisis is mushrooming to other debt-laden members of the eurozone.

One bailout can be dealt with but two will be stretching it, and there are fears that other weak economies could be pulled down in the Greek spiral - including Europe's fifth-largest, Spain. Can Germany, Europe's effective paymaster, continue to bail out the weaker members of the eurozone?

The crisis threatens to undermine the euro and make it harder and more expensive for all eurozone governments to borrow money.

Edited by bobdrake12, 28 April 2010 - 01:10 AM.

[bobdrake12]

Click here to watch: U.S. Debt Threat - Fear Mongering or Real? (Peter Schiff vs James Galbraith on CNBC 04_26_10 )

[advancedatheist]

Austrian economists like Faber have a long history of making doomsday predictions which never come to pass. Ironically I bet Faber dismisses "ultimate armageddon" as a result of global warming because that prediction comes from a rival, and politically leftist, doomsday cult. He wants the Apocalypse to support his beliefs, dammit!, not those other guys' crazy notions.

[bobdrake12]

Austrian economists like Faber have a long history of making doomsday predictions which never come to pass. Ironically I bet Faber dismisses "ultimate armageddon" as a result of global warming because that prediction comes from a rival, and politically leftist, doomsday cult. He wants the Apocalypse to support his beliefs, dammit!, not those other guys' crazy notions.

We shall see, advancedatheist.

It looks like Greece and Portugal are facing some real debt problems. It is too soon to see whether their condition is an isolated instance or not.

In the meantime, the charts below add some spice to the subject :

[Lallante]

hey guys lets make loads of identical threads and post the same libertarian conspiracy crap in each one.

watch out! the government is coming!

[bobdrake12]

hey guys lets make loads of identical threads and post the same libertarian conspiracy crap in each one.

watch out! the government is coming!

Lallante, thanks for your post.

The Associated Press article, "Europe debt crisis spreads to Portugal" posted above was headline news yesterday. You might have missed it. It starts off by saying:

"Greece was pushed to the brink of a financial abyss and started dragging another eurozone country - Portugal - down with it Tuesday, fueling fears of a continent-wide debt meltdown."

And in case you are not aware of it, last October Businessweek reported that Iceland "goes bankrupt".

Here the article below:

http://www.businessw...nd_goes_ba.html

Iceland goes bankrupt
Posted by: Michael Mandel on October 10

That’s an amazing sentence: Iceland goes bankrupt. But that’s exactly what happened yesterday (see BW piece here. See NY Times piece here). That’s a clear sign that the global financial crisis is entering a new and vastly more dangerous phase, where we are paying the price of the lack of a global financial regulator and global central bank.

What ‘bankrupt’ means is just that: The country cannot pay back its external debts, and the Icelandic currency, the krona, has become essentially valueless in the rest of the world. That means the country can no longer pay for imports.

The Icelandic problems have nothing to do directly with American real estate. As Kerry Capell of BW writes:

With the privatization of the banking sector, completed in 2000, Iceland’s banks used substantial wholesale funding to finance their entry into the local mortgage market and acquire foreign financial firms, mainly in Britain and Scandinavia…In just five years, the banks went from being almost entirely domestic lenders to becoming major international financial intermediaries. In 2000, says Richard Portes, a professor of economics at London Business School, two-thirds of their financing came from domestic sources and one-third from abroad. More recently—until the crisis hit—that ratio was reversed. But as wholesale funding markets seized up, Iceland’s banks started to collapse under a mountain of foreign debt.

What’s worse, with Iceland sitting outside the major currency trading blocs, there may be no one with the incentive or ability to save it. The country is looking for loans from the IMF and from Russia. But the United Kingdom is actually threatening to sue Iceland to get back money.

Where does the crisis go next? Most exposed are countries with large amounts of external debt relative to the size of their economy. A quick calculation suggests that by this measure, the U.S. is relatively well off, with external debt about equal to GDP. Japan’s external debt is about 40-50% of GDP, as is Canada’s (these numbers may change as I refine my calculations). Italy is at about 100%, and Germany and France are in the 140-150% range.

From this perspective, the U.S.—with its external debt mostly in dollars—looks like a bastion of stability. The euro zone has some weaknesses—Belgium and the Netherlands have uncomfortably high debt levels, and Ireland is extremely high. But there is a political framework in place which should allow political leaders to take effective action if they want.

The biggest dangers are for the UK and Switzerland. These countries, although much bigger than Iceland, are major financial intermediaries with big external debts. What’s more, they are outside the major currency blocs, with debt denominated in foreign currencies. That means if their currency starts to devalue, their debts will become more and more onerous.

And now we are in very tricky waters, which are looking uncomfortably like the Great Depression. The major players are the U.S., the Eurozone, Japan, and China. The question is: Will they act collectively, or will they engage beggar-thy neighbor policies?

More later on this.

Developing? We shall see.

Edited by bobdrake12, 28 April 2010 - 11:32 AM.

[Lallante]

and its all the governments fault... not the lack of regulation on banks

Right.....right??

[advancedatheist]

Austrian economists like Faber have a long history of making doomsday predictions which never come to pass. Ironically I bet Faber dismisses "ultimate armageddon" as a result of global warming because that prediction comes from a rival, and politically leftist, doomsday cult. He wants the Apocalypse to support his beliefs, dammit!, not those other guys' crazy notions.

We shall see, advancedatheist.

I've lived long enough to have already seen the results of Austrian-style doomsaying. Compare Faber's hysterical comments with what people like him said in 1981:

http://www.time.com/...l#ixzz0g0vUDxpe

Yet look at all the articles in libertarian publications which criticize doomsday forecasts based on different assumptions. Ronald Bailey published one on the Reason magazine website earlier this month. In the comments I chastised Bailey for not holding Austrian economists to the same standards:

http://reason.com/ar...-century-peasan

[bobdrake12]

http://finance.yahoo...d...l?x=0&.v=27

Spain downgraded as Europe debt crisis widens ((excerpt)

Germany says aid for Greece could be approved by May 7 as debt crisis spreads to Spain

Juergen Baetz and Pan Pylas, Associated Press Writers, On Wednesday April 28, 2010, 5:48 pm EDT

BERLIN (AP) -- Europe's debt crisis spread its contagion to another country Wednesday when a major agency downgraded Spain's credit rating, even as Germany grudgingly moved closer to bailing out Greece from imminent collapse.

Greece and Portugal -- up to now the focus of alarm -- are relative economic minnows. But Spain's economy, at four times the size of Greece, is considered by many too big to rescue.

At stake is the threat of higher borrowing costs that could crimp government spending for years and undermine the once-mighty euro.

Edited by bobdrake12, 29 April 2010 - 01:59 AM.

[Rich D]

and its all the governments fault... not the lack of regulation on banks

Right.....right??

Right.

[bobdrake12]

Leading Economist Peter Schiff: US in Worse Shape Than in 2008; We Are In As Bad or Worse Shape Than Greece (Video)

http://gatewaypundit...n-greece-video/

Peter Schiff, president of Euro Pacific Capital, announced today that the US economy is in worse shape than it was in 2008. Schiff said, “You can’t have an economy based on spending borrowed money. You can’t consume your way to wealth.”

[bobdrake12]

and its all the governments fault... not the lack of regulation on banks

Right.....right??

Lallante,

http://en.wikipedia....ss–Steagall_Act

The Banking Act of 1933 was a law that established the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) in the United States and introduced banking reforms, some of which were designed to control speculation[1]. It is most commonly known as the Glass–Steagall Act, after its legislative sponsors, Carter Glass and Henry B. Steagall.

Some provisions of the Act, such as Regulation Q, which allowed the Federal Reserve to regulate interest rates in savings accounts, were repealed by the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980. Provisions that prohibit a bank holding company from owning other financial companies were repealed on November 12, 1999, by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act.

The government should *not* have repealed the Glass–Steagall Act.

[Alex Libman]

and its all the governments fault... not the lack of regulation on banks Right.....right??

Once again, the root of the argument is this - if your Mommy Government is so great, then why does it have to force itself on everyone through the barrel of a gun? Make it possible for people to opt out from government's "services" on their own property (or at least in the middle of the ocean forchristsakes!) and you wouldn't hear any more whining from us.

If your banking regulation is so awesome, then why would people voluntarily trust their money to banks that are less regulated? Why do you need to build virtual walls to keep people and capital from escaping? Why must "sovereign nations" (some smaller than Dubya's Crawford ranch) be blacklisted and threatened with blockade for taxing and regulating just a little less than your government does?

[Mind]

Sure it sounds like more doomsday speak, but is there a limit to how much money Obama's administration can print and spend, right? We are already talking in trillions. What is next in the monetary lexicon? Quadrillion. In 2010 the phrase" there is no free lunch" still applies. Someone will have to pay for all the excesses of the Obama administration. Future generations? Future taxpayers? The only way I can see not having to pay the piper is through some sort-of technological singularity, or at a minimum, an energy "singularity". Does anyone else have any idea how trillions in debt will be paid off?

[JLL]

You don't understand -- common sense does not apply to fiat currencies. But that's okay, I'm sure Lallante will tell us how a quadrillion of debt is really a net benefit for everybody. And inflation is good because it means we earn more!

[bobdrake12]

In 2010 the phrase" there is no free lunch" still applies.

Well said, Mind!

[bobdrake12]

RepPaulRyan — April 29, 2010 — On the Record with Greta Van Susteren - Fox News Channel. The people who sent me here from Wisconsin sent me here to get spending under control not to raise their taxes.

[bobdrake12]

From The Sunday Times May 2, 2010

Greece erupts as men from IMF prepare to wield axe (excerpts)

http://www.timesonli...icle7113941.ece

MAY DAY protests in Greece turned violent yesterday as youths in gas masks and hoods set fire to vehicles, smashed shop fronts and threw molotov cocktails and rocks at police in an explosion of fury over austerity measures they claim will hurt only the poor.

Tourists were cut off from their hotels as thousands of communists, civil servants and private-sector workers converged on a main square in Athens to vent their rage at the European Union and the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

The violence came as negotiations were concluding between the socialist government of George Papandreou, the IMF and the EU over a multi-billion-euro rescue package for Greece.

Anger has grown against the EU for insisting on tough austerity measures in return for a bailout worth an estimated €45 billion (£39 billion) this year alone, and up to €120 billion (£104 billion) over three years.

Some young Greeks prefer to blame their elders for the mountain of debt that has resulted in Greece, like a wayward child, being placed under the tutelage of the men from the IMF.

The question of who was to blame and who should pay for the greatest crisis to afflict the single currency was a subject of heated debate, particularly after a leading credit rating agency put the cradle of civilisation in the same category as Azerbaijan by reducing its government bonds to “junk” status.

Economists regard the bloated civil service with its jobs for life and generous pensions as a cancer consuming the country’s resources. The older generation, the experts grimly concur, turned the state into a giant cash machine to be plundered at will.

Edited by bobdrake12, 02 May 2010 - 06:14 PM.

[bobdrake12]

[ultranaut]

and its all the governments fault... not the lack of regulation on banks Right.....right??

Once again, the root of the argument is this - if your Mommy Government is so great, then why does it have to force itself on everyone through the barrel of a gun? Make it possible for people to opt out from government's "services" on their own property (or at least in the middle of the ocean forchristsakes!) and you wouldn't hear any more whining from us.

Because in the real world political power grows from the barrel of a gun. Were it possible for you to opt out of government services on your own property you would lose your property. The enforcement of property rights is a government service.

[Mind]

and its all the governments fault... not the lack of regulation on banks Right.....right??

Once again, the root of the argument is this - if your Mommy Government is so great, then why does it have to force itself on everyone through the barrel of a gun? Make it possible for people to opt out from government's "services" on their own property (or at least in the middle of the ocean forchristsakes!) and you wouldn't hear any more whining from us.

Because in the real world political power grows from the barrel of a gun. Were it possible for you to opt out of government services on your own property you would lose your property. The enforcement of property rights is a government service.

True, you would have to create your own nation, independent social organization, something different. Maybe TSI can help in that regard.

[Alex Libman]

Because in the real world political power grows from the barrel of a gun.

Yes, but some of it comes from power exercised in self-defense, and is thus perfectly rational and legitimate (i.e. Natural Law). The rest comes from a criminal enterprise known as government, and needs to be resisted.

Were it possible for you to opt out of government services on your own property you would lose your property. The enforcement of property rights is a government service.

Ha! About 95% of Property Rights violations in today's world come from government, and as surveillance technology improves it will soon be 100%!

Property Rights existed long before governments were established (ex. animals marking their territory), they existed where the vile hand of government was yet to reach (ex. early Quaker colonies, American West, etc), and Property Rights will continue to exist long after governments are abolished (ex. "open source" documentation of Property claims, private arbitration, and the Right to Self-Defense)!

True, you would have to create your own nation, independent social organization, something different. Maybe TSI can help in that regard.

Do you know what 99% of serious investors say when they hear about Seasteading? "B-b-but they'll just call in the Navy and 'Waco' us out of the water!" Or they'll just blockade us, like they blockaded any state that refused to join the United States when that empire was first founded... That's why seasteading (and, in the long run, spacesteading) aren't viable options just yet... :(

[ultranaut]

Because in the real world political power grows from the barrel of a gun.

Yes, but some of it comes from power exercised in self-defense, and is thus perfectly rational and legitimate (i.e. Natural Law). The rest comes from a criminal enterprise known as government, and needs to be resisted.

That's just justification. (Not that I don't agree with it)

Were it possible for you to opt out of government services on your own property you would lose your property. The enforcement of property rights is a government service.

Ha! About 95% of Property Rights violations in today's world come from government, and as surveillance technology improves it will soon be 100%!

Property Rights existed long before governments were established (ex. animals marking their territory), they existed where the vile hand of government was yet to reach (ex. early Quaker colonies, American West, etc), and Property Rights will continue to exist long after governments are abolished (ex. "open source" documentation of Property claims, private arbitration, and the Right to Self-Defense)!

Animals marking their territory must defend it in order to maintain their claim. Their property rights are not enforced except to the extent that they themselves can enforce them. In the absence of government, property belongs to whoever can take it.
I read the proposal you linked to, it's interesting but kind of silly. To create a government-free society the poster proposes a government. Except it is apparently a government which can only mandate that people must participate in arbitration to resolve disputes over property. Suppose I refuse to go to arbitration? Suppose I refuse to accept the outcome of an arbitration? As long as I can defend the property I claim it will continue to be mine.

True, you would have to create your own nation, independent social organization, something different. Maybe TSI can help in that regard.

Do you know what 99% of serious investors say when they hear about Seasteading? "B-b-but they'll just call in the Navy and 'Waco' us out of the water!" Or they'll just blockade us, like they blockaded any state that refused to join the United States when that empire was first founded... That's why seasteading (and, in the long run, spacesteading) aren't viable options just yet... :(

Exactly. No form of anarchism will work unless everyone is an anarchist.

[Mind]

Because in the real world political power grows from the barrel of a gun.

Yes, but some of it comes from power exercised in self-defense, and is thus perfectly rational and legitimate (i.e. Natural Law). The rest comes from a criminal enterprise known as government, and needs to be resisted.

That's just justification. (Not that I don't agree with it)

Were it possible for you to opt out of government services on your own property you would lose your property. The enforcement of property rights is a government service.

Ha! About 95% of Property Rights violations in today's world come from government, and as surveillance technology improves it will soon be 100%!

Property Rights existed long before governments were established (ex. animals marking their territory), they existed where the vile hand of government was yet to reach (ex. early Quaker colonies, American West, etc), and Property Rights will continue to exist long after governments are abolished (ex. "open source" documentation of Property claims, private arbitration, and the Right to Self-Defense)!

Animals marking their territory must defend it in order to maintain their claim. Their property rights are not enforced except to the extent that they themselves can enforce them. In the absence of government, property belongs to whoever can take it.
I read the proposal you linked to, it's interesting but kind of silly. To create a government-free society the poster proposes a government. Except it is apparently a government which can only mandate that people must participate in arbitration to resolve disputes over property. Suppose I refuse to go to arbitration? Suppose I refuse to accept the outcome of an arbitration? As long as I can defend the property I claim it will continue to be mine.

True, you would have to create your own nation, independent social organization, something different. Maybe TSI can help in that regard.

Do you know what 99% of serious investors say when they hear about Seasteading? "B-b-but they'll just call in the Navy and 'Waco' us out of the water!" Or they'll just blockade us, like they blockaded any state that refused to join the United States when that empire was first founded... That's why seasteading (and, in the long run, spacesteading) aren't viable options just yet... :(

Exactly. No form of anarchism will work unless everyone is an anarchist.

No, the anarchist just needs the best technology/defense/weapons.

[Alex Libman]

I am not an anarchist...

You know, I'm tired of repeating myself, and I've wasted enough of my time talking about politics on this forum. People who are too stupid to have picked up a good book on free market capitalism and educate themselves will not be convinced by forum arguments either. What you need to understand is - we don't require your approval in order to succeed. The ignorant masses deserve exactly what they're going to get.

[bobdrake12]

What you need to understand is - we don't require your approval in order to succeed. The ignorant masses deserve exactly what they're going to get.

And they'll love their servitude, Alex!

"A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude" (Huxley 1976, xvii)."

"And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be within the next generation or so a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing … a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda, brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods." (Huxley)

Edited by bobdrake12, 05 May 2010 - 04:04 AM.

[ultranaut]

I am not an anarchist...

You know, I'm tired of repeating myself, and I've wasted enough of my time talking about politics on this forum. People who are too stupid to have picked up a good book on free market capitalism and educate themselves will not be convinced by forum arguments either. What you need to understand is - we don't require your approval in order to succeed. The ignorant masses deserve exactly what they're going to get.

You said you wanted to opt out of government services and something else like "after government is abolished". Now perhaps as a member of the ignorant masses I am too stupid to understand the nuance of your specific ideology, but to me it sure sounds like you advocate some form of anarchism.

What exactly is it that people too stupid to understand your ideology will be getting when you succeed? How do you plan on giving it to them?