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the future of cognitive enhancement


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#1 ~ prometheus ~

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 01:06 PM


hi all,

it's been a while since i last posted, although i still do check out the boards from time to time. for ~8 years i've been following the idea of cognitive enhancement, and i guess in many regards my conception of nootropics and understanding of my own behaviour has matured. i was going to write a long spiel but instead i offer this:



i feel that most people aren't serious about cognitive enhancement, and this whole movement is based on the presumption that the solution can be found in a pill. as of 2010, and probably for the next 10 years, i believe that it can't. i feel that many people are lazy and are unwilling to work hard for their goals, and this is a hallmark of the one-pill-for-every-problem mentality.

fluid intelligence, or reasoning ability, is a good predictor of job performance, academic performance and other culturally endorsed markers of success. IMHO, the ideal nootropic would enhance fluid intelligence rather than "peripheral" components of intelligence such as attention, memory and motivation. historically, the problem is that it's been thought that fluid intelligence can't be improved. however, in the past couple years, several studies have found that doing working memory exercises that get progressively harder DOES improve fluid intelligence in HEALTHY people.

this intervention takes about 20 minutes a day for several weeks. attached is the abstract and a link to the website.

i now posit this:

after learning of this, how many of you are going to dedicate 20 minutes/day on this intervention, one which has been empirically demonstrated in HEALTHY people. compare that to the evidence behind the nootropics you're currently taking. my suspicion is that the majority of people into nootropics are just way too fucking lazy, and should commence a course of selegiline immediately ;o)



~~~~~~~

the software can be purchased here:

http://www.apn.psy.u.../index_eng.html


the full pdf can be downloaded here:

http://www.pnas.org/...9.full.pdf html


Improving fluid intelligence with training on working memory

1. Susanne M. Jaeggi*,†,‡,
2. Martin Buschkuehl*,†,‡,
3. John Jonides*, and
4. Walter J. Perrig†


Abstract

Fluid intelligence (Gf) refers to the ability to reason and to solve new problems independently of previously acquired knowledge. Gf is critical for a wide variety of cognitive tasks, and it is considered one of the most important factors in learning. Moreover, Gf is closely related to professional and educational success, especially in complex and demanding environments. Although performance on tests of Gf can be improved through direct practice on the tests themselves, there is no evidence that training on any other regimen yields increased Gf in adults. Furthermore, there is a long history of research into cognitive training showing that, although performance on trained tasks can increase dramatically, transfer of this learning to other tasks remains poor. Here, we present evidence for transfer from training on a demanding working memory task to measures of Gf. This transfer results even though the trained task is entirely different from the intelligence test itself. Furthermore, we demonstrate that the extent of gain in intelligence critically depends on the amount of training: the more training, the more improvement in Gf. That is, the training effect is dosage-dependent. Thus, in contrast to many previous studies, we conclude that it is possible to improve Gf without practicing the testing tasks themselves, opening a wide range of applications.

#2 chrono

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 02:57 AM

Meh. Dual-n-back is pretty well-known, and that paper has been brought up several times. There are free versions of the game online.

Just because people aren't using the method shown by this (problematic) paper to increase one (problematic) measure of intelligence doesn't mean that they're fucking lazy, not serious, looking for an easy solution, etc. For myself, I've yet to get going with this because I have problems with attention and consistent effort over time, and because I already use 95% of my free time to learn and improve myself.

Current nootropics can achieve any number of ends that playing this game never could. And I'm pretty sure "peripheral" measures like attention, motivation and memory are pretty important as well, especially in achieving "culturally endorsed markers of success." I have more fluid intelligence than most "successful" people I know, but problems with motivation and attention would make it extremely difficult to do basic coursework without some kind of pharmaceutical assistance.

While some of what you're saying is accurate, I don't think it's useful to reduce pharmacological cognitive enhancement to a position that's easy to make fun of, just because it's not "ideal" at this point.

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#3 Guacamolium

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 03:31 AM

Meh. Dual-n-back is pretty well-known, and that paper has been brought up several times. There are free versions of the game online.

Just because people aren't using the method shown by this (problematic) paper to increase one (problematic) measure of intelligence doesn't mean that they're fucking lazy, not serious, looking for an easy solution, etc. For myself, I've yet to get going with this because I have problems with attention and consistent effort over time, and because I already use 95% of my free time to learn and improve myself.

Current nootropics can achieve any number of ends that playing this game never could. And I'm pretty sure "peripheral" measures like attention, motivation and memory are pretty important as well, especially in achieving "culturally endorsed markers of success." I have more fluid intelligence than most "successful" people I know, but problems with motivation and attention would make it extremely difficult to do basic coursework without some kind of pharmaceutical assistance.

While some of what you're saying is accurate, I don't think it's useful to reduce pharmacological cognitive enhancement to a position that's easy to make fun of, just because it's not "ideal" at this point.


Dual N Back is a very great game. Might be very 2007ish but it does offer what it does. Luminosity is great as well, but without the claims.

#4 ~ prometheus ~

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 04:42 AM

Just because people aren't using the method shown by this (problematic) paper to increase one (problematic) measure of intelligence doesn't mean that they're fucking lazy


i'm a psychologist who has spent a while researching the field of working memory, can you outline why this study and the methods employed are problematic?

and are the shortcomings of this study greater than say, assuming that a nootropic will work on a healthy person because it's been demonstrated in animals, or people with dementia? my primary field was behavioural neuroscience, so i'm acutely aware of the problems of animal models.

all i see is people more than willing to throw time and money away on nootropics with minimal or dubious efficacy, but unwilling to put in the time for something such as dual N back, whose efficacy is both significant and important.

#5 stablemind

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 04:49 AM

Just because people aren't using the method shown by this (problematic) paper to increase one (problematic) measure of intelligence doesn't mean that they're fucking lazy


i'm a psychologist who has spent a while researching the field of working memory, can you outline why this study and the methods employed are problematic?

and are the shortcomings of this study greater than say, assuming that a nootropic will work on a healthy person because it's been demonstrated in animals, or people with dementia? my primary field was behavioural neuroscience, so i'm acutely aware of the problems of animal models.

all i see is people more than willing to throw time and money away on nootropics with minimal or dubious efficacy, but unwilling to put in the time for something such as dual N back, whose efficacy is both significant and important.


How much would it enhance fluid intelligence? Is there a study?

#6 chrono

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 10:04 AM

i'm a psychologist who has spent a while researching the field of working memory, can you outline why this study and the methods employed are problematic?

There was a paper/letter which raised some concerns about their testing protocol, and (I believe) the ability of the test to actually measure fluid intelligence. I can't find it right now, but I'll get it sometime this week when I go to the library.

I wasn't trying to invalidate this study; I agree that it's very important. But it should be recognized that it is just one paper, with a somewhat limited scope.

and are the shortcomings of this study greater than say, assuming that a nootropic will work on a healthy person because it's been demonstrated in animals, or people with dementia? my primary field was behavioural neuroscience, so i'm acutely aware of the problems of animal models.

Extrapolating from studies of animals or cognitive deficit is indeed problematic, but can sometimes be highly indicative. Studies are also done on healthy volunteers; just not very often, because medicine currently has a "not broke/don't fix it" bias, and it's not where the money is (yet).

all i see is people more than willing to throw time and money away on nootropics with minimal or dubious efficacy, but unwilling to put in the time for something such as dual N back, whose efficacy is both significant and important.

Are nootropics useless if they don't directly increase fluid intelligence? Why are those "peripheral" indicators so secondary in importance? They may not be an ideal all-in-one solution, but these substances are quite capable of improving quality of life, and the ability to better the use of the mind in any number of ways.

This is a highly experimental subject; a lack of studies does not mean a lack of subjective value. I'm not sure what your personal experience is, but many (including myself) derive benefit from nootropics which is neither minimal nor dubious. I don't think I'm wasting my money, and I don't consider research and experimentation into neuropharmacology to be a waste of time.

And I can see why you think a lot of people are looking for an easy solution. But to be blunt, so what? If my mother finds that ALCAR gives her a boost in energy and focus, how is that a bad thing? Should she be condemned because she doesn't want to spend 20 minutes a day on dual-n-back? Is this gain somehow ill-gotten, if she didn't need to work for it?

Memory training is a very interesting subject, and well worth encouraging people to pursue, but I think you're continuing to set up a false condition of mutual exclusion. This one paper demonstrating the possibility of far transfer does not somehow invalidate pharmaceutical impact upon cognition. As I mentioned before, nootropics can act upon targets which the dual-n-back game has almost no possibility of affecting. The goal of both of these seems most likely to be achieved when used together.

Also, you might get more discussion if value judgements about nootropics didn't seem so central to your argument. If you have studied this area, I'd encourage you to write some more about the implications of increasing fluid intelligence, and the importance of the connection to working memory and controlled attention.


racingmind: Unless I'm misunderstanding your question, the study is mentioned in post #1

Edited by chrono, 02 May 2010 - 10:27 AM.


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#7 outsider

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 10:10 AM

I personally trust more the past than the future for cognitive improvement. Things like Lion's mane, bacopa , lemon balm, green tea etc. have been known for thousands of years and definitely improve one's mind. Affordable. Virtually no side effects. Nothing to lose.

Edited by outsider, 02 May 2010 - 10:18 AM.





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