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Older competing with younger


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5 replies to this topic

#1 Mind

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Posted 11 August 2004 - 10:36 PM


For those who do not know, Ed Moses is regarded as the best 400 meter hurdler who ever lived. He won three Olympic medals and set many world records. He is now 48 and is planning a comeback. He wants to compete again. An interview with him was posted last week on newscientist.com. Unfortunately it is now in the archives and I can't get any of the text and post it here. From what I read, he wasn't taking any hormones/growth factors, but he was fine tuning his diet and training to maximize his ability to comeback. Why I mention this is because, it has been predicted that the old will become young again with the help of advancing technology. While Ed is not using any new biotech to help him out, it is already available. Many sports leagues ban using steroids/hormones/growth factors, but how long can this last? I think sports fan pressure will allow old heroes to return. San Francisco 49er fans would sure like to have Joe Montana back. What Brazilian wouldn't love to see a youthful invigorated Pele' bring the national team back to glory?

Some will say this trend will ruin professional sports. I don't think it will ruin sports...just change them.

#2 rahein

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 01:18 PM

I agree. The supplements that should be banned are the ones that cause harm to the athletes, not the ones that change boost their performance. When it becomes possible for them to modify their genes they will have no choose but to urban non harmful supplements to even the playing field.

I would look forward to seeing more experienced players coming going back to their sports.

#3 Lazarus Long

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 03:16 PM

You all can run but you cannot hide.

I am older and I am the competition. I am used to it. ;))

As an example I enlisted into the military at 34, the upper legal limit. I found I had enormous advantages against my younger cohorts both in terms of mind and body, certainly in respect to the will and stamina.

You all will become used to the competition too.

That is the case or you will fail to compete and die off.

Who are we, dinosaurs?

Did we ever become extinct?

You can just look in the mirror to recognize a fellow hatchling.

So who is afraid of a little competition and what constitutes unfair advantage?

A gun was understood as the great equalizer because it gave every individual the ability to kill indiscriminately. That is until we developed Weapons of Mass Destruction that gave the individual an advantage against the majority. And you folks are only worried about a little physical enhancement. Any particular part you want enhanced, biceps, triceps, penis, or breast?

Oh yes, a few of the more rational ones ask for *mental enhancements*.

Whatever that means? ;))

I want a solar collecting skin enhanced by nanotech with re-breather and heat retention ability for amphibious marine habitat. Do you think Orca will be offended by the unfair advantages of human tech?

Any more offended that is, than by our wanton destruction of the greater percentage of their habitat and populations now?

So you want affirmative action for the Neo Cambrian Expansion?

Are we going to enhance the handicapping of athletes or create categories of user and non user like Major and Minor Leagues?

Enhancement is a part of what human technology means, it is the part that somehow gets overlooked in its obviousness and it is the part that has always been at the forefront of human advance (a word rooted in advantage). It is what is at the core of most ethical analysis of this question since mythic prehistoric times. We don't define the eras of human progress by the amount and quality of the metals smelted for nothing, by the quality of weaving and spear points, or by the engineering complexity of habitat models a society develops. We, as tool makers have been changing the rules of our survival for over a million years, since long before Cro-Magnon and long enough for the behavioral adaptation to incorporate itself into our genes. So do some of us resonate the *machine gene*?

Cyborgs are Us.

But does this approach also legitimize discrimination as well; a form of enforced *equalization of competition*?

The *Competition between Age Groups* will look a little different as each generation sets new records for longevity, it will reflect our social evolution as well as physical. There are some aspects that will require an enormous respect and tolerance IMO for the competition to not turn hostile and destructively manipulative.

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#4 Mind

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 09:22 PM

Go Laz Go!

#5 tous

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 07:13 AM

When your talking about athlets is one thing and military is another...for the military I'd say sure give em whatever they want....there trying to save live and such the need to be in the aboslute best shape of body and mind wethere they be 25 or 50 but athlets are there to see who can be the better competator so they should have to do it on there own without any kind of supplements. But were do you draw the line is the question...

#6 Lazarus Long

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 12:49 PM

Athletics as a concept and its modern Western origin with the Olympics for example, as well as the more universal concept of gaming is derivative of combat and conflict preparedness. In other words they are directly related and inextricably intertwined.

This history is remarkably universal from the Mayan Ball courts to Roman Gladiators, from circuses to gambling and Mongolian Polo. The worst part of the mixed memetics of warfare and athletics is that when it is not about combat training or its surrogacy, it is quasi mystified into a form of religious behavior associated with popular devotion and hero *worship*.

It also has EVERYTHING to do with enhancements as I point out above that is what tools/weapons are predicated on, enhancing ones abilities. Armor, special foods, the oils used in making one slippery for wrestling, spear throwing (the javelin) discus (rock throwing) archery are about applied combat skills.

Track and field, boxing/wrestling, equestrian skill, acrobatics, fencing, cross country and alpine skiing and almost all but the most modern specifically design and commercially contrived sports are really manifestations of surrogate combat and so is the appeal to the spectators to associate with the teams and advocate for either side (force) over the opponent.

Athletics and warfare are in a synergistic relationship involving material science, pharmaceuticals, medical science, even educative training techniques. This relationship has existed since prehistoric time and will likely continue.

The real question is when tech can accelerate the pace of change so rapidly that it is necessary to intervene to establish a *Level Playing Field* for the exact purpose of maintaining *fairness* (that is why it is a *sport*) and it is here that the debate should focus IMHO, not on whether or not any form of enhancements are ethical.

The general and specific safety of the applied enhancement is one aspect that always must be considered IMO and second that all the competitors are equipped in like manner, competing under the same rules for athletics. In war as Cicero said, there are no rules. However even in this respect we have since the most ancient times attempted to build a code of conduct to distinguish the soldier/warrior from the thug and brigand. The evolution of chivalry is at the heart of the origin for the modern laws of war.

I really don't know why this subject has become so difficult except for the obvious desire on many sides to *cheat* by using forms of enhancement that are not visible (or detected by any means) and are not shared. This provides one side of a competition unfair advantage over another and here we have crossed the ethical divide into a corrupt practice IMO.




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