14 replies to this topic

[indicio]

I've been having some issues focusing on just about anything; school is impossible, work is barely manageable. I love what I do (both my major and my work), but I simply find it extremely challenging to focus during lectures, as well as summon the willpower to actually do the work outside of class. I jump around from project to project at work as well, can never seem to focus on one thing.

After discovering nootropics a few days ago and following links around, I ended up here, reading Ten months of research... I plan on following bmud's "getting started" recommendations by taking piracetem, CDPCholine, and pyritinol. Is there any other particularly effective supplements that I should look into that would complement the aforementioned, but don't overlap (I would like to start with only a few, then take additional supplements as time goes by, allowing me to easily see what is and isn't effective)?

It may be worth mentioning that I will be supplementing this regiment with a simple multi-vitamin, healthier diet, and moderate exercise. These are all steps I'm taking to try to tackle my personal issues, as I'm currently on the brink of being given the boot from my academic program.

Regarding ADHD, as someone will likely mention it: I have many of the symptoms of ADHD per research I did a few weeks ago. Mood swings, procrastination, extreme forgetfulness, can't sit for too long, shifting from one unfinished activity to another, and of course the attention issues mentioned before. I have not seen a professional about this, and thus have not been diagnosed. I want to try this approach (nootropics + exercise + healthy diet) before I head down that avenue.

If anyone has any recommendations for other supplements that may help (or comments/criticism in general), I'd be much obliged to hear them.

[Rational Madman]

If you're dealing with mood swings, I would stay away from supplements that unblock calcium channels----like anything from the -racetam class---because mood swings may be indicative of altered NMDA and AMPA receptor expression. Your list of symptoms suggest the inattentive subtype of ADHD, which means that dextroamphetamine is your best best, with the possible adjunct use of a SNRI or SSRI if your symptoms are not resolved to your physician's satisfaction. As for the nootropics, I wouldn't go down that rabbit hole, because most of the substances are supported by only limited---and mostly dated---research, and yield empirical results that are in no way comparable to FDA approved drugs.

Since it's late, and I'm waiting for the effects of my sleeping pill to kick in, I don't have the requisite mental energy to compose a thoughtful response, but if you make use of the search engine, you'll find useful answers to most of your problems---since someone with similar circumstances wanders into this forum almost every day. But, in sum, I would consider the following suggestions:

-Try the aforementioned drug suggestions.
-Explore alternative explanations for inattentiveness through either a general practitioner or an internist---your complaints are extremely common, and a competent physician will subject you to the proper tests---nutritional, hormonal, metabolic, etc.
-Eat a healthy and balanced diet---avoid extreme diets, even the paleo diets propagated by members on this board.
-If food intolerances are suspected, carefully try an elimination or challenge diet---being most mindful of gluten, casein, food coloring, nuts, salicylates, and amines.
-As far as supplements for your indication go, fish oil, phosphatidylserine, ginkgo biloba, vinpocetine, DMAE, nicotine, carnosine, CDP choline, galantamine, and acetyl carnitine have the most empirical support---so start there (but not necessarily with all) before you allow unsubstantiated anecdotes to render you destitute (which I've seen happen in a few cases). None of these agents, however, are panaceas, so don't allow yourself to be deluded. If I were you, I would start with a base of a high quality fish oil formula(1-3 grams EPA/DHA), transdermal nicotine, a good multivitamin, and DMAE.
-Begin cognitive behavioral therapy with someone with good references and a decent head between their shoulders----since some of these "doctors" are irretrievably incompetent, and adept at time wasting.
-Try to get a definitive neuropsychiatric diagnosis---especially if you suspect comorbid disorders.
-Learn coping techniques---meditation, breathing exercises, etc.
-Don't embark on the regressive path of self-loathing.
-Be cognizant of environmental factors---reclusion, lack of outdoor exposure, etc.
-Challenge your brain with exercises that activate frontal cortical areas of the brain---puzzles, programs like Brain Age, etc.

Edited by Rol82, 09 June 2010 - 07:50 AM.

[medievil]

I agree with rol that getting pharmaceuticals for your condition is the best approuch, while nootropics can increase cognition they usually are only of limited effectiveness for ADD. I have the same issues and found that memantine helped keep my mood more stable, for my ADD its only of limited effectiveness (altough it has been investigated for this use with some succes), dextroamphetamine is highly effective on the other hand.

I know what kind of negative impact ADD can have on your life, wich is why the second the recommendation to consider more powerfull pharmaceutical solutions.

[stablemind]

If you're dealing with mood swings, I would stay away from supplements that unblock calcium channels----like anything from the -racetam class---because mood swings may be indicative of altered NMDA and AMPA receptor expression. Your list of symptoms suggest the inattentive subtype of ADHD, which means that dextroamphetamine is your best best, with the possible adjunct use of a SNRI or SSRI if your symptoms are not resolved to your physician's satisfaction. As for the nootropics, I wouldn't go down that rabbit hole, because most of the substances are supported by only limited---and mostly dated---research, and yield empirical results that are in no way comparable to FDA approved drugs.

Since it's late, and I'm waiting for the effects of my sleeping pill to kick in, I don't have the requisite mental energy to compose a thoughtful response, but if you make use of the search engine, you'll find useful answers to most of your problems---since someone with similar circumstances wanders into this forum almost every day. But, in sum, I would consider the following suggestions:

-Try the aforementioned drug suggestions.
-Explore alternative explanations for inattentiveness through either a general practitioner or an internist---your complaints are extremely common, and a competent physician will subject you to the proper tests---nutritional, hormonal, metabolic, etc.
-Eat a healthy and balanced diet---avoid extreme diets, even the paleo diets propagated by members on this board.
-If food intolerances are suspected, carefully try an elimination or challenge diet---being most mindful of gluten, casein, food coloring, nuts, salicylates, and amines.
-As far as supplements for your indication go, fish oil, phosphatidylserine, ginkgo biloba, vinpocetine, DMAE, nicotine, carnosine, CDP choline, galantamine, and acetyl carnitine have the most empirical support---so start there (but not necessarily with all) before you allow unsubstantiated anecdotes to render you destitute (which I've seen happen in a few cases). None of these agents, however, are panaceas, so don't allow yourself to be deluded. If I were you, I would start with a base of a high quality fish oil formula(1-3 grams EPA/DHA), transdermal nicotine, a good multivitamin, and DMAE.
-Begin cognitive behavioral therapy with someone with good references and a decent head between their shoulders----since some of these "doctors" are irretrievably incompetent, and adept at time wasting.
-Try to get a definitive neuropsychiatric diagnosis---especially if you suspect comorbid disorders.
-Learn coping techniques---meditation, breathing exercises, etc.
-Don't embark on the regressive path of self-loathing.
-Be cognizant of environmental factors---reclusion, lack of outdoor exposure, etc.
-Challenge your brain with exercises that activate frontal cortical areas of the brain---puzzles, programs like Brain Age, etc.

What is your experience with herbs like Bacopa?

[Rational Madman]

If you're dealing with mood swings, I would stay away from supplements that unblock calcium channels----like anything from the -racetam class---because mood swings may be indicative of altered NMDA and AMPA receptor expression. Your list of symptoms suggest the inattentive subtype of ADHD, which means that dextroamphetamine is your best best, with the possible adjunct use of a SNRI or SSRI if your symptoms are not resolved to your physician's satisfaction. As for the nootropics, I wouldn't go down that rabbit hole, because most of the substances are supported by only limited---and mostly dated---research, and yield empirical results that are in no way comparable to FDA approved drugs.

Since it's late, and I'm waiting for the effects of my sleeping pill to kick in, I don't have the requisite mental energy to compose a thoughtful response, but if you make use of the search engine, you'll find useful answers to most of your problems---since someone with similar circumstances wanders into this forum almost every day. But, in sum, I would consider the following suggestions:

-Try the aforementioned drug suggestions.
-Explore alternative explanations for inattentiveness through either a general practitioner or an internist---your complaints are extremely common, and a competent physician will subject you to the proper tests---nutritional, hormonal, metabolic, etc.
-Eat a healthy and balanced diet---avoid extreme diets, even the paleo diets propagated by members on this board.
-If food intolerances are suspected, carefully try an elimination or challenge diet---being most mindful of gluten, casein, food coloring, nuts, salicylates, and amines.
-As far as supplements for your indication go, fish oil, phosphatidylserine, ginkgo biloba, vinpocetine, DMAE, nicotine, carnosine, CDP choline, galantamine, and acetyl carnitine have the most empirical support---so start there (but not necessarily with all) before you allow unsubstantiated anecdotes to render you destitute (which I've seen happen in a few cases). None of these agents, however, are panaceas, so don't allow yourself to be deluded. If I were you, I would start with a base of a high quality fish oil formula(1-3 grams EPA/DHA), transdermal nicotine, a good multivitamin, and DMAE.
-Begin cognitive behavioral therapy with someone with good references and a decent head between their shoulders----since some of these "doctors" are irretrievably incompetent, and adept at time wasting.
-Try to get a definitive neuropsychiatric diagnosis---especially if you suspect comorbid disorders.
-Learn coping techniques---meditation, breathing exercises, etc.
-Don't embark on the regressive path of self-loathing.
-Be cognizant of environmental factors---reclusion, lack of outdoor exposure, etc.
-Challenge your brain with exercises that activate frontal cortical areas of the brain---puzzles, programs like Brain Age, etc.

What is your experience with herbs like Bacopa?

My experience with Bacopa has been pretty unspectacular, which mirrors most user experiences. However, I do think that it has some potential, but I think that the realization of this potential that might require its administration at doses far higher than those suggested by manufacturers----and closer to doses used in studies that I've encountered. So, for now, I wouldn't endorse the herb.

[stablemind]

My experience with Bacopa has been pretty unspectacular, which mirrors most user experiences. However, I do think that it has some potential, but I think that the realization of this potential that might require its administration at doses far higher than those suggested by manufacturers----and closer to doses used in studies that I've encountered. So, for now, I wouldn't endorse the herb.

Would you suggest experimentation with piracetam after mood swings have been corrected with vitamins/minerals like zinc, sam-e, b12, p-5-p and methylfolate? I used to get bipolar II like mood swings with a whole shitload of scattered thoughts, but now that it's gone, I feel like its safe to start experimenting. I don't have any mood issues, but at the same time I'm afraid I may trigger something.. but I could start with a low dose.

Edited by chrono, 26 August 2010 - 11:59 PM.
trimmed quote

[Rational Madman]

My experience with Bacopa has been pretty unspectacular, which mirrors most user experiences. However, I do think that it has some potential, but I think that the realization of this potential that might require its administration at doses far higher than those suggested by manufacturers----and closer to doses used in studies that I've encountered. So, for now, I wouldn't endorse the herb.

Would you suggest experimentation with piracetam after mood swings have been corrected with vitamins/minerals like zinc, sam-e, b12, p-5-p and methylfolate? I used to get bipolar II like mood swings with a whole shitload of scattered thoughts, but now that it's gone, I feel like its safe to start experimenting. I don't have any mood issues, but at the same time I'm afraid I may trigger something.. but I could start with a low dose.

Look, if you want to try piracetam, then go ahead and try it, because it's unlikely to dramatically worsen your mood, and it will not have a profound impact on your cognition. So, keep your expectations within reasonable levels.

Edited by chrono, 26 August 2010 - 03:41 PM.
trimmed quote

[sunshinefrost]

i've done my researches, a lot... i've experimented with noots, a lot... i've read books, A LOT.... and believe me, if i can give you a great short cut---> MEDITATION !!! Meditation litterally means: paying attention. Our generation has forgottent how to work to get things done, we want everything done instantly and want direct results. it took me a while to realise this but we have lost the art of observation... calm observation.

of course meditation is the long term solution after 10 000 hours you should be a master at keeping your focus and expand your consciousness.

...for the time being i'd say: piracetam

[24 Is Ours]

I've been having some issues focusing on just about anything; school is impossible, work is barely manageable. I love what I do (both my major and my work), but I simply find it extremely challenging to focus during lectures, as well as summon the willpower to actually do the work outside of class. I jump around from project to project at work as well, can never seem to focus on one thing.

After discovering nootropics a few days ago and following links around, I ended up here, reading Ten months of research... I plan on following bmud's "getting started" recommendations by taking piracetem, CDPCholine, and pyritinol. Is there any other particularly effective supplements that I should look into that would complement the aforementioned, but don't overlap (I would like to start with only a few, then take additional supplements as time goes by, allowing me to easily see what is and isn't effective)?

It may be worth mentioning that I will be supplementing this regiment with a simple multi-vitamin, healthier diet, and moderate exercise. These are all steps I'm taking to try to tackle my personal issues, as I'm currently on the brink of being given the boot from my academic program.

Regarding ADHD, as someone will likely mention it: I have many of the symptoms of ADHD per research I did a few weeks ago. Mood swings, procrastination, extreme forgetfulness, can't sit for too long, shifting from one unfinished activity to another, and of course the attention issues mentioned before. I have not seen a professional about this, and thus have not been diagnosed. I want to try this approach (nootropics + exercise + healthy diet) before I head down that avenue.

If anyone has any recommendations for other supplements that may help (or comments/criticism in general), I'd be much obliged to hear them.

I recommend a Magnesium and Zinc supplement. A lot of people are low in these nutrients and they play important roles in brain metabolism. Zinc and magnesium are building blocks for serotonin. They have helped me tremendously with my attention difficulties.

Edited by 24 Is Ours, 13 June 2010 - 08:29 PM.

[Ben]

My very first stats. class, the lecturer would get us all to meditate for a minute at the start (it's a long time to close your eyes in a room full of strangers when you're anxious and in new surroundings). We were instructed to close our eyes, sit comfortably with our legs uncrossed and hands on our knees, and focus on one sound outside for the entire time. For me this was always the traffic.

Coming from a very mathematically poor background (I failed almost every math exam throughout high school in the lowest math's class), and a mind that had taken a huge amount of drug abuse, I had a constant fog and grogginess and the class was potentially very hard for me. I received the Aust. uni equivalent of an A+.

i've done my researches, a lot... i've experimented with noots, a lot... i've read books, A LOT.... and believe me, if i can give you a great short cut---> MEDITATION !!!

[Rational Madman]

Look, if you want to try piracetam, then go ahead and try it, because it's unlikely to dramatically worsen your mood, and it will not have a profound impact on your cognition. So, keep your expectations within reasonable levels.

I would like to partially retract my advice regarding the use of Bacopa, because I recently came across evidence that suggests its efficacy for improving the rate of information processing---which is a category of cognition that some subsets of ADHD sufferers have exhibited serious deficits. So if neuropsychiatric testing confirms such a deficit, I imagine that the degree of response should be significantly greater---relative to normal controls. However, it has a short half-life, which would require the administration of doses considerably higher than doses recommended from manufacturers. For optimal response, I would suggest roughly 2 mg/kg every 3 hours. Due to its sedatory effects, though, I think the adjunct use of some form of nervous system stimulant is mandatory.

How exactly it improves visual processing is not entirely clear, but I'm guessing it has something to do with its positive influence on the hypothalamic-adrenal-pituitary axis.

Also, I think patient response is influenced by the purity and strength of the extract, which means that serious individuals will probably have to use the pricier products---like the one produced by Advanced Orthomolecular Research. Luckily, at $20 per bottle, its not prohibitively expensive.

Edited by chrono, 26 August 2010 - 03:42 PM.
trimmed quote

[Rational Madman]

I would like to partially retract my advice regarding the use of Bacopa, because I recently came across evidence that suggests its efficacy for improving the rate of information processing---which is a category of cognition that some subsets of ADHD sufferers have exhibited serious deficits. So if neuropsychiatric testing confirms such a deficit, I imagine that the degree of response should be significantly greater---relative to normal controls. However, it has a short half-life, which would require the administration of doses considerably higher than doses recommended from manufacturers. For optimal response, I would suggest roughly 2 mg/kg every 3 hours. Due to its sedatory effects, though, I think the adjunct use of some form of nervous system stimulant is mandatory.

How exactly it improves visual processing is not entirely clear, but I'm guessing it has something to do with its positive influence on the hypothalamic-adrenal-pituitary axis.

Also, I think patient response is influenced by the purity and strength of the extract, which means that serious individuals will probably have to use the pricier products---like the one produced by Advanced Orthomolecular Research. Luckily, at $20 per bottle, its not prohibitively expensive.

I apologize, I was mistakenly thinking of the price for the AOR produced Ashwagandha. Instead of a market price of $20, it seems that prevailing rate is closer to $30. This might make too much of a difference for some curious travelers, but it still might be worth a trial for some.

Edited by chrono, 26 August 2010 - 03:43 PM.
trimmed quote

[chrono]

There are a few studies showing ALCAR to be effective, especially for inattentive ADD. What I'm currently using (for inattentive ADD) is a combination of ALCAR and piracetam twice a day. They seem to have an excellent synergy; taking them both together, I notice a definite lessening of "fog," while separately I only notice enhancements in certain cognitive functions over time.

On this spectrum of symptoms, they really help with sustained attention. Makes it much easier to concentrate on reading (or any single task, really) instead of finding my mind wandering every few minutes. I also find improvement in certain areas not related to attentional deficits...verbal eloquence, most notably. It doesn't help with the motivation/anxiety complex of symptoms, but the increased focus allows me to do a lot of mentally ambitious tasks that I'm fully capable of, but ADD makes nearly impossible.

[meunster]

There are a few studies showing ALCAR to be effective, especially for inattentive ADD. What I'm currently using (for inattentive ADD) is a combination of ALCAR and piracetam twice a day. They seem to have an excellent synergy; taking them both together, I notice a definite lessening of "fog," while separately I only notice enhancements in certain cognitive functions over time.

On this spectrum of symptoms, they really help with sustained attention. Makes it much easier to concentrate on reading (or any single task, really) instead of finding my mind wandering every few minutes. I also find improvement in certain areas not related to attentional deficits...verbal eloquence, most notably. It doesn't help with the motivation/anxiety complex of symptoms, but the increased focus allows me to do a lot of mentally ambitious tasks that I'm fully capable of, but ADD makes nearly impossible.

That has been my experience with ALCAR also.

[Logan]

Intense Exercise followed by meditative stretching