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Neuroendocrinologist beleives Propecia interacts with Genetics, alters


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#1 golf17331

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 05:02 PM


After suffering from extreme sexual side effects from taking the drug finasteride (propecia) my doctor has theorized that the drug interacts with CAG repeats at the androgen receptor level - causing androgen insensitivity - which is normally a genetic defect from birth - how is it possible that a pharmaceutical with, supposedly, no affinity with for the androgen receptor has the ability to do this?

Here is his post from web MD

http://boards.medscape.com/forums?128@@.29ff6000!comment=1

Several young men seen for hypogonadism (low libido, erectile dysfunction, low energy, etc) after using finasteride have been found to have low-normal levels of bio-available testosterone and LH. This leads to the question of whether partial androgen resistance is at play. It has been shown that androgen insensitivity can occur even without mutations in the genes coding for the androgen receptor1. How then to connect finasteride use to the development of partial androgen resistance, especially outlasting the use of the drug?

In recent years many scientists have looked at the androgen receptor gene with an eye towards a variable length of its structure in one particular region called exon-1. In this region the number of CAG repeats, which code for glutamine (an amino acid-building block for the protein that becomes part of the receptor), vary between approximately 10-25 in different individuals and this variability has been linked to variable effectiveness or potency of androgens (testosterone(T) and dihydrotestosterone (DHT)) in these individuals. In other words, the number of these CAG repeats in the gene for the androgen receptor will effect the functionality of androgens in a man in various tissues in his body and even in his psychological traits2. This variability can cause hypogonadism in men with normal levels of testosterone, which is what androgen resistance is.

Many recent studies have looked at the CAG-repeat length of the androgen receptor in the setting of various clinical settings and found a causal relationship: in mediating the expression of testosterone deficiency on depressive symptoms, on personality traits (neuroticism, extraversion), amygdala reactivity to threat-related facial expression, body composition (muscle and fat) and circulating levels of sex hormones in young and aging men, on memory function in women, and even to solitary sexual desire in male-to-female transexuals. One study in 20053 linked the effectiveness of finasteride on men with baldness with the number of these CAG triplet repeats; the smaller the repeat number, the higher the improvement with finasteride.

I am wondering whether the propensity of finasteride to cause lasting partial androgen resistance in a subset of men relates to the number of CAG repeats in exon 1 of their androgen receptor genes, perhaps those with the greatest number of repeats are at highest risk. I cannot even guess how finasteride would do this after the drug is discontinued, but it is certainly a testable hypothesis. Take 2 groups of men, one group without any post-finasteride hyposexuality and one group with, and measure the androgen receptor gene CAG repeat length in both groups and compare. If it is the case, then men could be assessed, by a blood test prior to using finasteride, as to the risk of developing prolonged hypogonadism from the drug.

1. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1996 Dec;45(6):733-9.

2. Int J Androl. 2003 Apr;26(2):76-83.

3. J Investig Dermatol Symp Proc. 2005 Dec;10(3):293-4.


Looking for any information/opinions any intelligent minds may have.

#2 StrangeAeons

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 01:31 AM

I was under the impression that finasteride was an anti-androgenic in the first place; testosterone and DHT induce baldness, and the MOA is by inhibiting the synthesis of DHT. Hence the indication for BPH. That it would exacerbate male hypogonadism seems like a given. I don't know enough about the genetic component to comment on it-- other than that it seems like there's a valid concern, but I hear hoofsteps and there's a horse staring me in the face.

Click HERE to rent this GENETICS advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 niner

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:13 AM

The doctor's hypothesis is interesting, and as he points out, testable. The mechanism, if the hypothesis is borne out, would have to be epigenetic, I'd think. Does anyone know if this polyglutamine polymorphism can be seen using typical gene chips? Anyone know what the distribution of lengths is in the population? Finally, what is the frequency of hyposexual side effects from finasteride? Is it similar to the frequency of the long repeats?

#4 Athanasios

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 03:05 AM

Does anyone know if this polyglutamine polymorphism can be seen using typical gene chips?

The number of repeats can be seen using spotted microarrays or using molecular weight via gel electrophoresis.

Edited by Athanasios, 28 June 2010 - 03:11 AM.


#5 niner

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 03:28 AM

Does anyone know if this polyglutamine polymorphism can be seen using typical gene chips?

The number of repeats can be seen using spotted microarrays or using molecular weight via gel electrophoresis.

Would spotted microarrays include something like 23andMe's technology? I know they can do SNPs, but I don't know about repeats. (I think not, but I'm not sure.)

#6 Athanasios

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 04:04 AM

Would spotted microarrays include something like 23andMe's technology? I know they can do SNPs, but I don't know about repeats. (I think not, but I'm not sure.)

SNP arrays are a subset of microarrays, but they wouldn't work for this as they specifically match a sequence by comparing to a small set of possible SNPs. It is a cheaper and less time consuming way to match small changes.

Edited by Athanasios, 28 June 2010 - 04:09 AM.


#7 golf17331

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:22 PM

Is there any particular place to get the repeat testing done - perhaps via spotted micro array, that anyone knows of?

and yes, that is how finasteride does work by blocking dht synthesis, but for the majority (like 99 percent of men) any side effects subside when stopping medication: mine have not six months later after taking the medications for only 40 days - so i am attempting to actually figure out if this is a genetic abnormality that has lead to my lasting symptoms. I have also read that finasteride greatly reduces certain neurosteroids, so perhaps that has something to do with it - but i guess it could be a number of different possibilities.

To strangeaeons: there was no previous hypogonadism with me, personally, to exasterbate. Was perfectly healthy before the medication, and normally the medication does not generally cause hypogonadal symptoms.

#8 cariaso

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 12:41 AM

Does anyone know if this polyglutamine polymorphism can be seen using typical gene chips?

The number of repeats can be seen using spotted microarrays or using molecular weight via gel electrophoresis.

Would spotted microarrays include something like 23andMe's technology? I know they can do SNPs, but I don't know about repeats. (I think not, but I'm not sure.)


23andMe probably doesn't test for the actual repeat, but sometimes there are SNPs in Linkage Disequillibrium (LD) with a structural variant, and these can act as markers.

http://www.snpedia.c...ndex.php/rs6152
is in the AR gene and tested for by 23andMe
It has considerable literature but the population frequency information from HapMap is spotty.

http://www.snpedia.c...x.php/rs5031002
is also in AR and checked by 23andMe. It has a rare A genotype and associations with LDL cholesterol.

While it is possible to have an LD effect a considerable distance away, I've limited to the immediate AR gene. There dbSNP knows of 744 other SNPs
http://www.ncbi.nlm....sFromResult=367


23andMe checks these 30


rs2497911
rs2497928
rs2497931
rs2497933
rs2473849
rs2497935
rs6625187
rs5919390
rs962458
rs12007229
rs6152
rs12396249
rs1204038
rs5919393
rs1926926
rs1926927
rs2361634
rs2361636
rs6624304
rs1337080
rs12014709
rs5031002
rs1931545
rs5918768
rs1337082
rs12010636
rs5965443
rs5919432
rs4456006
rs4827556

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#9 golf17331

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 02:27 PM

Thanks for the detailed response, cariaso.

However, since posting this topic, two other people who are suffering from finasteride side effects have had there CAG repeats tested and they have been found to be normal at 18 and 22. This leads me to believe that the side effects are a cause of hypermethylation of the androgen receptor (causing gene silencing), and now an entirely different type of testing must be done to verify hypermethylation.




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