10 replies to this topic

[stablemind]

edit: MOD plz move this to supplements

I am in a dilemma. In the past, I had many symptoms of BPII including racing thoughts, mood swings, fatigue and severe disorganization of thoughts which resulted in learning disabilities. My mood never reached mania though and I was always in control of my habits. I've eliminated most issues 9 months into my supplement regiment which consisted initially of methylfolate, P-5-P, methylcobalamin.

After, I included vitamin D for a month then ceased.

I then added sam-e.

Zinc was then added after sam-e was removed after it reached its peak benfits.

Currently I only take Zinc, ashwagandha, and bacopa. The other B vitamins were removed because there were no more benefits.

I no longer feel mood swings, racing thoughts and irritability. I do however have issues remembering things still, and mood could use some work. When socializing, I feel like I dont have much to say and no real incentive talk either. My inattention is also an issue still. The psychiatrist said he won't think about treating my ADD issues until he first addresses my BPII, but I told him what's the point if I dont exhibit any symptoms, except pressured speech, which only occurs when discussing this kind of topic. Once I start treatment, I'll be taking lamictal, but I'm hesitant to try it due to long term side effects. The only positive function of this drug I feel would benefit me is its mood enhancing effects. I have no idea how this will help my learning ability like focalin.

I'm trying to decide if I should just try to get some dex from my mom's friend and try it out. I'm getting fed up of ignorant psychiatrists. He didnt even know what modafinil, nuvigil or memantine was. Should I go this route instead, or should I trial lamictal? I'm starting my summer session and I cant afford the side effects to fuck me.

Edited by stablemind, 24 June 2010 - 05:49 AM.

[The Likud Is Behind It]

Adding an amphetamine will only increase your mood swings. Lamictal has an antidepressant effect and will also help your racing thoughts somewhat. The only serious issue is the rash. You will feel better on it.

[alexd]

I read your post and I see enough similarities to write to you.

I too am bp2. I have spent many years finding out what works for me. Please be aware that although the similarities in what works for us is significant that you might have very different reactions to things. I am 58 years old so I suspect I might have had to live with this for longer than you have been alive so take advantage of what I have learned so that your path might be easier.

Lamictal. As I have previously posted at his site it was a wonder drug for me. It made me as calm as possible and gave me a photographic memory. I have not found anyone else who had the same response. some people find it terrible. I am also allergic to it and much to my dismay absolutely cannot take the drug. Currently there is no other drug like it. I was prescribed it because it was one of the few drugs that work exclusivly on on the depressive side of bp.

Look up URIDINE. I recently started taking 25 mg of it at night along with taking 4 gms of fish oil a day. (Fish oil has been shown to have a calming effect for those with bp. IT works ,. IT is thought that at least part of its action is due to it reducing inflammation. I also take about 3/8 tps of choline chloride with it. The idea here is to try to replicate some decent results obtained using a uridne variation by a company called Repligen.
Since I have started taking it I suffer less mood swings and depression. In googling uridine in the shopping area I found it for about 20 dollars for 60 25mg caps. It is not found at the large online vitamin sellers. Google it to review studies done with it.

I take 4 caps of barcopa full spectrum version Swansons.com a day. It does improve memory.

I take 50 mg of modafinal a day. This really ups my concentration. The only speed type drug for adhd that was effective for me was Concerta. It is vastly overpriced being ritalin. What make s it better is that he company that makes it utilizes a very effective slow release system that prevents the up and down type results that I found with ritalin.

Another thing that is worth trying is l tyrosine. Take it on an EMPTY stomach. If taken with food it is inneffective. It raises dopamine. I really like taking it with l theanine, which is the calming component in tea. I take a couple of caps of this with the tyrosine and coffee and It negates some of the jitteiness that coffee might bring while retaining its other effects.


I take the precription drug Deplin which is l methylfolate. It helps a lot. If you get a prescription for it get the docotr to prescride the 15mg tabs. You break them in half and will save 50% versus the single 7.5 mg pills. This is due to Glaxo shafting consumers while having a uniform per pill price. Which really meant that they would get more for the most prescribed version.

You might also try NAC n acetyl cysteine. This sulphur comound also has been found to work on bp depression. It can be felt it about 30 minutes. All of its side effects are good.

Try ordering some magesium citrate. It too has a calming effect. I take 2x tabs a day obtained from Swansons. In excess it will cause loose bowels. If that happens back off a bit. Most of us do not get enough in our diets.

I take 500mg of Black Cohosh a day. It is used in chinese medicine for epilepsy. An interesting side effect is that at least for me it reduces neurological discomfort which is due to herniated disks in my neck which was caused by an auto accident. This and most of the other substances I get from Swansons.com. They have proven to be reputable with competitive prices. Do not get put off by the fact that it is often used by premenopausal women. I found taking smaller does was not effective.

Drink a lot of water. Dehydration causes a lot of subtle malfunctions.

Exercise regularly. The benefits are profound bp or not. This and the water are just common sense type things.

Learn to meditate. This is easier to say than to do. When I do it I fell better and others have noticed the effects. Learning to make your head silent takes a lot of training. I take the zen approach, it works and is not saddled with a lot of religious hokus pocus , so even if you practice some other religion or not you should not find a conflict in it.

I do smoke cannabis (which I bred for my own mental needs.) Make of it what you will. It will not help you study. When I engage in visual arts activities I find it useful. but it hinders writing.

I tried Sam e but I found it made me anxious. Others find it useful. Be careful with amphetamines/Ritalin they are addictive and can be destructive,

Learn to mentally monitor your moods and reactions. Look at what you are doing and saying as a habit lets say every 10 minutes. If you find yourself being argumentaive, angry, offensive to others or overtalkitive. Push yourself to do the opposite. I know I can get carried away when too emotional and gaining that self awareness and discipline will lead to you being in charge rather than having some unwanted state of the brain holding sway.

I hope that this will help you find what works for you. I went decades being misdiagnosed and then it took years to learn what works for me.

edit: MOD plz move this to supplements

I am in a dilemma. In the past, I had many symptoms of BPII including racing thoughts, mood swings, fatigue and severe disorganization of thoughts which resulted in learning disabilities. My mood never reached mania though and I was always in control of my habits. I've eliminated most issues 9 months into my supplement regiment which consisted initially of methylfolate, P-5-P, methylcobalamin.

After, I included vitamin D for a month then ceased.

I then added sam-e.

Zinc was then added after sam-e was removed after it reached its peak benfits.

Currently I only take Zinc, ashwagandha, and bacopa. The other B vitamins were removed because there were no more benefits.

I no longer feel mood swings, racing thoughts and irritability. I do however have issues remembering things still, and mood could use some work. When socializing, I feel like I dont have much to say and no real incentive talk either. My inattention is also an issue still. The psychiatrist said he won't think about treating my ADD issues until he first addresses my BPII, but I told him what's the point if I dont exhibit any symptoms, except pressured speech, which only occurs when discussing this kind of topic. Once I start treatment, I'll be taking lamictal, but I'm hesitant to try it due to long term side effects. The only positive function of this drug I feel would benefit me is its mood enhancing effects. I have no idea how this will help my learning ability like focalin.

I'm trying to decide if I should just try to get some dex from my mom's friend and try it out. I'm getting fed up of ignorant psychiatrists. He didnt even know what modafinil, nuvigil or memantine was. Should I go this route instead, or should I trial lamictal? I'm starting my summer session and I cant afford the side effects to fuck me.

Edited by alexd, 24 June 2010 - 03:34 PM.

[stablemind]

Hey thanks for the info. NAC looks very interesting I will probably try some later since I tested deficient in it anyways. It looks like years of stress induced by the BPII has taken a toll on your brain. Have you tried low dose lithium? I've read of its neurogenesis abilities and its unique ability to reverse abnormalities and that immediately sparked my interest.

Also my main concern about lamictal is its side effects including memory loss and cognition dulling. If my mood has stablized already, could lamictal further help enhance my lifestyle, or do you think it's not worth trialing? I haven't felt swings in mood for many months now.

I read your post and I see enough similarities to write to you.

I too am bp2. I have spent many years finding out what works for me. Please be aware that although the similarities in what works for us is significant that you might have very different reactions to things. I am 58 years old so I suspect I might have had to live with this for longer than you have been alive so take advantage of what I have learned so that your path might be easier.

Lamictal. As I have previously posted at his site it was a wonder drug for me. It made me as calm as possible and gave me a photographic memory. I have not found anyone else who had the same response. some people find it terrible. I am also allergic to it and much to my dismay absolutely cannot take the drug. Currently there is no other drug like it. I was prescribed it because it was one of the few drugs that work exclusivly on on the depressive side of bp.

Look up URIDINE. I recently started taking 25 mg of it at night along with taking 4 gms of fish oil a day. (Fish oil has been shown to have a calming effect for those with bp. IT works ,. IT is thought that at least part of its action is due to it reducing inflammation. I also take about 3/8 tps of choline chloride with it. The idea here is to try to replicate some decent results obtained using a uridne variation by a company called Repligen.
Since I have started taking it I suffer less mood swings and depression. In googling uridine in the shopping area I found it for about 20 dollars for 60 25mg caps. It is not found at the large online vitamin sellers. Google it to review studies done with it.

I take 4 caps of barcopa full spectrum version Swansons.com a day. It does improve memory.

I take 50 mg of modafinal a day. This really ups my concentration. The only speed type drug for adhd that was effective for me was Concerta. It is vastly overpriced being ritalin. What make s it better is that he company that makes it utilizes a very effective slow release system that prevents the up and down type results that I found with ritalin.

Another thing that is worth trying is l tyrosine. Take it on an EMPTY stomach. If taken with food it is inneffective. It raises dopamine. I really like taking it with l theanine, which is the calming component in tea. I take a couple of caps of this with the tyrosine and coffee and It negates some of the jitteiness that coffee might bring while retaining its other effects.


I take the precription drug Deplin which is l methylfolate. It helps a lot. If you get a prescription for it get the docotr to prescride the 15mg tabs. You break them in half and will save 50% versus the single 7.5 mg pills. This is due to Glaxo shafting consumers while having a uniform per pill price. Which really meant that they would get more for the most prescribed version.

You might also try NAC n acetyl cysteine. This sulphur comound also has been found to work on bp depression. It can be felt it about 30 minutes. All of its side effects are good.

Try ordering some magesium citrate. It too has a calming effect. I take 2x tabs a day obtained from Swansons. In excess it will cause loose bowels. If that happens back off a bit. Most of us do not get enough in our diets.

I take 500mg of Black Cohosh a day. It is used in chinese medicine for epilepsy. An interesting side effect is that at least for me it reduces neurological discomfort which is due to herniated disks in my neck which was caused by an auto accident. This and most of the other substances I get from Swansons.com. They have proven to be reputable with competitive prices. Do not get put off by the fact that it is often used by premenopausal women. I found taking smaller does was not effective.

Drink a lot of water. Dehydration causes a lot of subtle malfunctions.

Exercise regularly. The benefits are profound bp or not. This and the water are just common sense type things.

Learn to meditate. This is easier to say than to do. When I do it I fell better and others have noticed the effects. Learning to make your head silent takes a lot of training. I take the zen approach, it works and is not saddled with a lot of religious hokus pocus , so even if you practice some other religion or not you should not find a conflict in it.

I do smoke cannabis (which I bred for my own mental needs.) Make of it what you will. It will not help you study. When I engage in visual arts activities I find it useful. but it hinders writing.

I tried Sam e but I found it made me anxious. Others find it useful. Be careful with amphetamines/Ritalin they are addictive and can be destructive,

Learn to mentally monitor your moods and reactions. Look at what you are doing and saying as a habit lets say every 10 minutes. If you find yourself being argumentaive, angry, offensive to others or overtalkitive. Push yourself to do the opposite. I know I can get carried away when too emotional and gaining that self awareness and discipline will lead to you being in charge rather than having some unwanted state of the brain holding sway.

I hope that this will help you find what works for you. I went decades being misdiagnosed and then it took years to learn what works for me.

edit: MOD plz move this to supplements

I am in a dilemma. In the past, I had many symptoms of BPII including racing thoughts, mood swings, fatigue and severe disorganization of thoughts which resulted in learning disabilities. My mood never reached mania though and I was always in control of my habits. I've eliminated most issues 9 months into my supplement regiment which consisted initially of methylfolate, P-5-P, methylcobalamin.

After, I included vitamin D for a month then ceased.

I then added sam-e.

Zinc was then added after sam-e was removed after it reached its peak benfits.

Currently I only take Zinc, ashwagandha, and bacopa. The other B vitamins were removed because there were no more benefits.

I no longer feel mood swings, racing thoughts and irritability. I do however have issues remembering things still, and mood could use some work. When socializing, I feel like I dont have much to say and no real incentive talk either. My inattention is also an issue still. The psychiatrist said he won't think about treating my ADD issues until he first addresses my BPII, but I told him what's the point if I dont exhibit any symptoms, except pressured speech, which only occurs when discussing this kind of topic. Once I start treatment, I'll be taking lamictal, but I'm hesitant to try it due to long term side effects. The only positive function of this drug I feel would benefit me is its mood enhancing effects. I have no idea how this will help my learning ability like focalin.

I'm trying to decide if I should just try to get some dex from my mom's friend and try it out. I'm getting fed up of ignorant psychiatrists. He didnt even know what modafinil, nuvigil or memantine was. Should I go this route instead, or should I trial lamictal? I'm starting my summer session and I cant afford the side effects to fuck me.

Edited by stablemind, 25 June 2010 - 01:11 AM.

[sameer_hasham]

Hey.

Similar BP2 and Add Inattentive. Just started low dose lamictal 25mg. It is working very well to counter BP cognitive disorganisation and to improve sleep by calming thoughts at night.

This is reducing inattentiveness too.

I take 5mg Aripiprazole to stop mania and stabalise
100mg Modafnil twice daily for ADD-I
Lamictal 25mg for racing thougths / mental mashupness - calms the electrical storm from BP depression

Hope this helps

[Curiouser]

I do some research in this area, and I am not a fan of lamictal's mechanism of action. Look up a neurological phenomenon called LTP and its effects on learning and memory. Then look up what lamictal does to LTP. It isn't pretty. I was surprised to read that lamictal was so helpful to alexd's memory-- I guess there must be some major variation in physiologic response in some people. For most people, though, it will radically decrease the ability to learn and remember.

Have you thought of using lithium, instead? That drug also has some positive effects on depression (though it is not called an antidepressant like lamictal is). It is much "gentler" on LTP, in that it should slow the frequency of LTP down somewhat, but won't totally inhibit it like lamictal does. And for someone who can be too speedy due to BPII, slowing LTP down a little could be a very helpful thing!

I agreed with many of the other things that alexd wrote. In particular, I'm a big fan of NAC, uridine, methylfolate, and tyrosine (but back off of tyrosine if you start to get too speedy). I also really, really like ashwaghanda (ACh upregulation PLUS upregulated glutathione protection).

I don't know much about bacopa, so don't have an opinion there.


Fish oil may be good if you order EPA capsules *only* and take no more than 3g/d. You can get pure EPA at mind1stusa.com and from sourcenaturals.com (there's a little DHA in the latter, but shouldn't be enough to do much harm). In most studies, taking more than 3 grams actually decreases the effects of EPA. Even worse, this may be due to EPA-induced neuronal apoptosis! (apoptosis = cell suicide).

Be careful of black cohosh and modafinil. Black cohosh increases the estrogen in your brain, which leads to increased norepinephrine. Modafinil also basically acts like NE. This might be helpful when you are depressed, but is bad news if you are speedy. I'm not saying don't do it- I'm just saying be careful, and be prepared to stop taking it if you start to feel funny.

Also tell your shrink the truth about what you're taking so that s/he can be an objective set of eyes in telling you that you need to stop. If your shrink isn't open minded to this stuff, find a different shrink. There are plenty of journal articles out there about these things, and a good shrink will already know at least some of it. The best shrink, though, is the one willing to read about it because you ask him/her to do so. :-)

Edited by Curiouser, 26 September 2010 - 10:24 PM.

[Logan]

I do some research in this area, and I am not a fan of lamictal's mechanism of action. Look up a neurological phenomenon called LTP and its effects on learning and memory. Then look up what lamictal does to LTP. It isn't pretty. I was surprised to read that lamictal was so helpful to alexd's memory-- I guess there must be some major variation in physiologic response in some people. For most people, though, it will radically decrease the ability to learn and remember.

Hmm, I haven't been right since taking Lamictal for 8 months. I wonder if the effects can be long term?

[Curiouser]

It's possible that lamictal has slowed down your LTP mechanism so much that you're having a hard time getting it going again. Acetylcholine, dopamine and norepinephrine all support LTP. If you're on a mood stabilizer like lithium or valproic acid, then you could try Wellbutrin CAREFULLY (it increases both dopamine and norepinephrine, but you could fly into a mania if it goes too far). Acetylcholine would probably be safe for you regardless, since one of the side effects is often an increase in sleepiness :-) You can try it by using ALCAR and/or Ashwaghanda, both of which are OTC.

Hmm, I haven't been right since taking Lamictal for 8 months. I wonder if the effects can be long term?

[Logan]

It's possible that lamictal has slowed down your LTP mechanism so much that you're having a hard time getting it going again. Acetylcholine, dopamine and norepinephrine all support LTP. If you're on a mood stabilizer like lithium or valproic acid, then you could try Wellbutrin CAREFULLY (it increases both dopamine and norepinephrine, but you could fly into a mania if it goes too far). Acetylcholine would probably be safe for you regardless, since one of the side effects is often an increase in sleepiness :-) You can try it by using ALCAR and/or Ashwaghanda, both of which are OTC.

Hmm, I haven't been right since taking Lamictal for 8 months. I wonder if the effects can be long term?

I'm using Aswhagandha at the moment, usually at night but sometimes during the day. I used to take ALCAR but stopped for no good reason, I may start taking it again. It's been about 16 months since I took Lamictal, maybe I'm still recovering, who knows. I just hope if there was an damage done it is mostly reversible.

I tried Wellbutrin and it agitated me, giving me anxiety and making my body shake and tremor. Currently, I'm taking 10 mg Prozac and 600 mg Lithium. I've been considering getting back on Zoloft and adding some Nortriptyline. I don't know what I'm going to do yet, I'm waiting till I see my new pdoc. Thanks for the input on Lamictal and LTP, very interesting. I just did a little search on Lamictal and LTP, there's definitely some evidence of Lamictal's impact.

[Curiouser]

Yikes, that does NOT sound like enough lithium-- especially if you're also on Prozac!!! Have you had a lithium level, lately? I'm sure your new pdoc will sort this out, but you still need to be aware that this is probably insufficient, and could put you at risk of mania with the Prozac combo. When you tried Wellbutrin, were you also on such a low lithium dose? If so, I think I know what part of the problem was. But regardless, some drugs just aren't ok for some people. Wellbutrin may just be wrong for you, no matter how much lithium you add.

Nortriptiline is more likely to help you get rid of your LTP blues than Zoloft is, since Nortrip increases norepinephrine activity.

And don't be surprised if your new pdoc hasn't heard of LTP-- most haven't. You can take the measure of this person early on if you mention your concerns. A good doctor will look it up; a crappy one will blow you off.

Good luck!

I'm using Aswhagandha at the moment, usually at night but sometimes during the day. I used to take ALCAR but stopped for no good reason, I may start taking it again. It's been about 16 months since I took Lamictal, maybe I'm still recovering, who knows. I just hope if there was an damage done it is mostly reversible.

I tried Wellbutrin and it agitated me, giving me anxiety and making my body shake and tremor. Currently, I'm taking 10 mg Prozac and 600 mg Lithium. I've been considering getting back on Zoloft and adding some Nortriptyline. I don't know what I'm going to do yet, I'm waiting till I see my new pdoc. Thanks for the input on Lamictal and LTP, very interesting. I just did a little search on Lamictal and LTP, there's definitely some evidence of Lamictal's impact.

[sameer_hasham]

What about Memantine as an alternative to Lamictal or Lithium?
Can some1 explain what Uridine does?

Thnaks to all for the contributions. I didnt know about the long term effects of Lamictal. I am thinking of switching to Memantine as I hear it is an effective anticonvulsant with less side effects. Do you think it effects LTP less??

Cheers

SH