4 replies to this topic

[Ennui]

For the past month, I have been taking Bacopa extract (daily dose: 300mg) for its purported memory enhancement.

Last week, I was prescribed 27mg of Concerta, which is a extended-release brand of methylphenidate (MPH).

MPH, being a dopamine (DA) and norepinephrine (NE) reuptake inhibitor, has the effect of increasing their (extracellular) concentrations.

Bacopa, as I learned from a recent thread, has been shown to increase DA, meanwhile decreasing NE: Source

BM is known to lower norepinephrine and increase 5-hydroxytryptamine levels in the hippocampus, hypothalamus, an important supervisory center in the brain, rich in ganglia, nerve fibers, and synaptic connections. It is composed of several sections called nuclei, each of which controls a specific function. and cerebral cortex (Singh and Dhawan, 1997).

Source

So, what possible interactions (pharmacologically) might arise from the combination of a NE reuptake inhibitor and something that decreases NE? Are there any (potential) long-term or short-term implications to consider?

Given that Bacopa counteracts the NE increase caused by MPH, I thought I might take it before bed, once the Concerta is wearing off. This way, I'm hope to minimize any interaction between the two and still be able to benefit from Bacopa's memory enhancement.

Will the noradrenergic interaction between the two be avoided this way, if Bacopa is taken during or shortly after the comedown from MPH?

That, I suppose, depends on whether there is still appreciable NE activity during/after the comedown (i.e., if MPH is to some extent still inhibiting NE reuptake). But I'm not sure about that.

Thanks in advance.

[kassem23]

For the past month, I have been taking Bacopa extract (daily dose: 300mg) for its purported memory enhancement.

Last week, I was prescribed 27mg of Concerta, which is a extended-release brand of methylphenidate (MPH).

MPH, being a dopamine (DA) and norepinephrine (NE) reuptake inhibitor, has the effect of increasing their (extracellular) concentrations.

Bacopa, as I learned from a recent thread, has been shown to increase DA, meanwhile decreasing NE: Source

BM is known to lower norepinephrine and increase 5-hydroxytryptamine levels in the hippocampus, hypothalamus, an important supervisory center in the brain, rich in ganglia, nerve fibers, and synaptic connections. It is composed of several sections called nuclei, each of which controls a specific function. and cerebral cortex (Singh and Dhawan, 1997).

Source

So, what possible interactions (pharmacologically) might arise from the combination of a NE reuptake inhibitor and something that decreases NE? Are there any (potential) long-term or short-term implications to consider?

Given that Bacopa counteracts the NE increase caused by MPH, I thought I might take it before bed, once the Concerta is wearing off. This way, I'm hope to minimize any interaction between the two and still be able to benefit from Bacopa's memory enhancement.

Will the noradrenergic interaction between the two be avoided this way, if Bacopa is taken during or shortly after the comedown from MPH?

That, I suppose, depends on whether there is still appreciable NE activity during/after the comedown (i.e., if MPH is to some extent still inhibiting NE reuptake). But I'm not sure about that.

Thanks in advance.

I don't have a definite answer, but I suppose the antagonistic properties of BM on NE would maybe lessen the concentrations of NE in the synaptic clefts, which might have an influence on the efficacy of MPH. I'm just taking a wild guess here. There isn't really an established mechanism of action for BM so it's hard to say. You could try and see if there is any difference for a while. I'm guessing the chance of the interaction causing you any bad effects are a bit far-fetched. We need more information about BM before we can make an informed decision.

[chrono]

I agree that it's hard to say for sure without knowing the mechanism by which bacopa lowers NE. I'll grab the paper next time I'm at the library, and see if anything about a timeframe is mentioned in the full text.

Taking bacopa in the evening is probably a good idea, to avoid as much as possible the direct clash of NE mechanisms. Though I know from experience that some of the effects of bacopa can linger until the next morning, so it may be best to take it around when the MPH is wearing off, and not right before bed. The memory-enhancing effects of bacopa supposedly occur over a very long timeframe, so taking it at night shouldn't detract.

[Ennui]

Thanks for the replies.

Though I know from experience that some of the effects of bacopa can linger until the next morning, so it may be best to take it around when the MPH is wearing off, and not right before bed.

I've not noticed the same, but I only ever took it in the morning until now. That I'm beginning to take it at night, meanwhile starting on MPH, might be confounding to see for myself. What sort of effects have carried on to the morning for you?

It's been troubling that Concerta lasts for so long, that it's hard to pinpoint when I come down. Well not exactly, but when I do, it seems like I get a boost shortly after (by virtue of Concerta's osmotic delivery system) and return to a more functional state. Since my existing sleep difficulties have been made worse by Concerta, I might opt for a shorter-acting medication.


The question of whether noradrenergic interaction will be avoided by taking bacopa during/after comedown might be simplified if I knew what processes underlie a 'comedown'.

Whether the NE antagonism can be avoided might also depend on whether MPH is still appreciably inhibiting NE reuptake during/after the comedown, though I'm inclined to think not.

[chrono]

I get some pretty severe fatigue and brain fog about 12 hours after I take it, whether it's morning or night. There's a couple of threads on here about the fatigue problem, but only some people seem to get it, maybe with only certain products. But even if it doesn't happen to you, I think it indicates that duration of some of the effects can be pretty long. So taking it earlier in the evening would give it more time to clear before your morning dose.

Beyond the possibility of making your ritalin less effective, I don't think you have to worry too much about the opposing mechanisms on NE. Anyone can feel free to correct me on this, but I don't think there are many ways it could be causing more serious trouble. Just take the bacopa sometime when you're planning on returning to normal functionality, or at least, when you aren't needing the ritalin effects any more. It will take an hour or two to start having any kind of effect on NE, anyway.

Edited by chrono, 12 July 2010 - 12:37 AM.