3 replies to this topic

[mindresearch]

Hello, all, nice to meet everyone, i just came across this board , and im like it , because im getting into Nootropics more and more. Usually i research pharmaceuticals , herbs, vitamins, but this is an area which is more "drug Like" yet can still be legally ordered. Plus, Due to the fact, I have access and have tried 20+ supplements and then doctor perscribed drugs, i feel im looking for a substance, that works , yet has Neuroprotective properties. Im more looking into Dopamine/Seratonin enhancing nootropics, yet i would not mind improving my memory.

I am diagnoses with ADD. Type 2, which is basically lack of motivation, boredom, zest for life feeling, scattered concentration. Iv been on Adderall 30mg for 2 months, dose is between 2-3 daily. First, this drug has helped me 100 percent from day 1. I get so much more work done, slight mood improvement, yet content, not anxious, i feel that it improves memory while taking it, and i just feel motiavated, daily tasks are not "boring" , but i ran into this problem like many others which is tolerance isssue. BOth eliminatiion of the drug, and the potency. I barely if all feel it after 2 weeks, even after 1 week breaks, but the ADD efffects still are working.
So i decided to take "natural Dopamine Precursors", and im still currently taking them. I will list them"
1. Mucuna Prurriens (l-dopa) Dopa Poppers by pinnicle nutrition
2. L-Tyrosine 500mg, with B-complex
3. L-Theanine 200mg
4. Antioxidants (n-acetyl-cystiene + a Herbal combonation)
5. B- Complex 100mg


If feel this is enough for a month or 2 trial,, but after 2 weeks, i still dont see any improvement. So im turing to Nootropics. Some of them, Like Memantine antagonise nmda receptors, which basically help lower amphetamine tolerance. ALso, N T D hydrygine hel produce nerve growth cells, and help eliminate free radicals from perons using amphetamines.
ALso, i take Omega fish (DHA) which helps protect the methyln sheeth of nerve cells.

Im looking for maybe Bromocriptine , plus also a Nerve cell Upregulator, and when it comes to dopamine , i know its very confusing. I know amphetamine release Dopamine from the Nucleus accumbens. WHich does give you a feeling of acoomplishment and reward.

Again im looking to take:( not all at once, im trying to just pick 1 or 2, and maybe alt. them with adderal.

1)Bromocriptine
2)Deprynl
3)Memantine
4. Aniracetam
5. Pergoline

Now this is just a brief. I know there are manyothers, but its get complicated. If anyone would help me , please post on some ways to benifit what im experiencing.

thank you
MindResearch

Bromocriptine

[dopamine]

I have been attempting to achieve what you have described for quite some time now. I am primarily interested in both combatting the withdrawal symtoms from amphetamines (thus increasing the success of periodic abstenstion) and reducing tolerance to a continous dosage regimen.

(There was a very good discussion on this issue at the Avant Labs Forum: http://forum.avantla...=ST&f=41&t=9851

Without going into too much detail, amphetamine tolerance develops primarily as a result of excess calcium influx through the NMDA (N-Methyl-D-Asparate) receptors, which causes downregulation and de-sensitization of these exicitory neurotransmitter channels. The decreased functionality of the NMDA receptors causes both tolerance to the drug's neuropharmacological effects, and decreases NMDA receptor density, thereby negatively altering learning and overall cognitive function.

Naturally, the approach one would take to this problem should be primarily targetted in the realm of decreasing excess calcium influx into the neurons, thereby preventing excitotoxcitity and subseqent recetor degradation. There are some drugs/supplements termed NMDA receptor antagonists, which means that it protects NMDA receptors from overstimulation. Some of these include:

- Huperzine A (also an acetylcholine esterase inhibitor)
- Magnesium (also intestinally increases absorption of amphetamines)
- Dextromethorphan (aka DXM, found in many flu/cold preparations)

There are also other substances which can protect neurons from excess neuronal calcium flow, one of the most potent of which is Vinpocetine.

Another substance worth considering in this context is Selegiline - an irreversible monoamine oxidase type-B inhibitor, meaning it prevents the deamination of phenethylamine (the "endogenous amphetamine") and dopamine. Selegiline has also been shown to have various neuroprotective properties, protecting "neurons against a variety of neurotoxins, such as 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6 tetrahydropyridine (MPTP), 6-hydroxydopamine, N-(2-chloroethyl)-N-ethyl-2-bromobenzylamine (DSP-4), methyl-[beta]-acetoxyethyl-2-chloroethylamine (AF64A), and 5,6-dihydroxyserotonin, which damage dopaminergic, adrenergic, cholinergic, and sertoninergic neurons, respectively (J Neurosci Res2002 Feb 1;67(3):285-289). This drug may be useful in two respects: preventing (or reversing) catecholamine depletion in pre-synaptic terminals, and providing antioxidant protection against amphetamine-induced neurotoxicity.

Hope this helps. If you are looking for more information, try searching the Avant Labs Forum, there is some really good information in many of the threads related to this topic. If you have any specific questions about what I have said, feel free to post a reply or if you prefer e-mail me at synapticjunction@hotmail.com.

Take care.

[nootropi]

Hi Dopamine,

It is good to see you over here at this forum. What I like about this forum (as opposed to avantlabs) is that the members here come from a more diverse backround. Specifically, we have, in this forum anything from lawyers to students, to full time life extensionists. When you ask a question, (that is, if it has not been asked already several times), if you wait a few days you really get some intelligent, thoughtful responses. Some of my friends in this forum are ejdavis1, Zen Catholic, cosmos (you already know him), just to name a few. While I would never go so far as to call one forum qualitatively "better" than another, this forum has less people on testosterone precursors and more on nootropics, if that makes any difference...

Onto your question: my brother and sister both were prescribed amphetamines to combat ADD. My brother stopped taking dexedrine altogether and feels much better now. My sister has increased her dose to over 70 millligrams a day. To combat the negative side effects, she takes clonodine before bedtime. Have you ever tried clonodine?

Hopefully you feel better, I am off to my daily meditation in a minute. I do this meditation for one hour per day and it is really wonderful. I spent all day today assembling tables: one new "PC Desk," and one "Writing desk." I also spent all day yesterday assembling desks. I got a new apartment and some new furniture, and when it was delivered in boxes in a thousand pieces I was angry; what I did was turn that anger into contrstuctiveness and hand assembled the desk. The office store that sold me these items wanted to charge me over $120 to put these tables together...I almost did it...but then realized that because I am not in school for the next week, I might as well challenge myself to something that is challenging...not necessarily intellectually, but practically. I am learning that having a balance of practical as well as intellectual challenges keeps my mind off things it should not be dwelling on...just some food for thought.

[temoigneur]

Dopamine, board..

In researching NMDA antagonists for preventing Adderall tollerance I came across info. you had posted on the subject.. Sorry to intrude:~ I was wondering if you might be able to point me in the direction of any solid scientific studies that validate the use of NMDA antagonists for preventing amphetamine tolerance.. My doctor is opening to prescribing things that aren't mainstream, but I can't find any scientific studies on the use of NMDA antagonists like memantine to prevent amphetamine tolerance.. Lots of info on preventing tolerance/treating addiction from and to alchohol and opiods.

I wanted to ask you, scientific studies being limited, from your research, have you found information to suggest that use of a 'cleaner' NMDA antag. to prevent amphet. tolerance is safe and effective? Any information you could point me towards would be so much appreciated.. I have 'innattentive, sluggish, ADD, and am trying to hanging on to a biology course.. but tolerance to dexedrine builds so quickly, and I can't take ritalin.. It's played havok on my life, I'm twenty seven, struggling to hang on to first year biology..

Does research indicate that DXM is safe for preventing amphetamine tolerance, if so what dose would you consider safe and adequate. Oviously this is cheap and doesn't require a perscription, but I'm also taking prozac and Buproprion.. the buproprion helps my mood, but doesn't help me concentrate. I know that DXM and Buproprion are contraindicated. I guess ideally I'd love to have solid studies re: memantine and amphet. tolerance to bring to my doctor. Thank you so much for any information..

Ben