12 replies to this topic

[nootropi]

Moved topic here

Edited by nootropi, 30 January 2005 - 07:50 PM.

[jolly]

Question - Is using a mortar and pestle really required vs. putting it all in a bottle and shaking it around alot?

[pinballwizard]

Suggestions for capping

Here are some more suggestions fr capping to add to Nootropi's suggestions

1. Make sure to get a Tamper too (if it does not come with the manual pill making contraption). It is totally necessary.
2. Have a good measuring scale. I got mine at a "tobacco pipe" shop. The smallest increment is 10mgs. 100mgs is too big imho. We should be as precise as possible.
3. Get mix colored pills. The main piece of my pill is white and the caps are blue. That way I can tell them apart.
4. Find a good place to sit down and be leaning over... coffee table perhaps. You are going to be there a while. That will prevent spilling.
5. Do batches of 50 or the most they do...to hard to avoid the empty holes obviously...which is common sense.
5. The densities of certain mixtures vary a great deal. the -cetams are extremely light wait. You should only put in 400 mgs of a cetam in an 00 size pill. Most everything is pretty dense. Stick to the 400mg or less per 00 pill rule until you learn the densities. That way you pop 2 pills to make the 800mg dose which a lot of people take. However, you will find more room to spare with other products.
6. RALA actually grows and clumps as you mix it. Mixing it almost makes it worse. Perhaps mix it piecemeal. Weigh, dump and mix fractions with other fractions to get better mixing. So, mix a 1/4 with a 1/4 of the others until you get it all in there. It is weird how you try to mix it with other stuff and it is pretty hard to get into a pill. I actually put some on my tongue and it left some sort of immediate acidic burn... weird, eh?
7. Use a small spoon to fill the pills. Quite often you miss the pills on the circumference. Make an extra effort to hit those. The middle pills fill up quicker.
8. Nootropi (Adam) said evenlypush the tamper on the capem quick (in another earlier bulletin post). I might disagree. Push unevenly all over the tamper to really push and find the true levels. Just make sure you pressure point every spot.
9. Take 2/3 of the mixture and spoon it in the holes--its more accurate than just dumping it in. Then use the squigee card. Then tamper. Then use 2/3 of existing mixture and spoon... repeating the process. It is accurate and fast.
10. weigh for evenness.


I bet pill capping is darn easy now after this first time. I just don't want you to waste your aniracetam as I did since my pills are uneven and of the wrong weight. In spite of my perfectionism with this, the first batch was not up to par.

Feel free to add suggestions

pinballwizard

[thefirstimmortal]

Now the marketing of products and the promotion of specific technical plans is a very different animal. First off the concern over Chiu’s marketing of his products here at Imminist, without either compensation to us or permission granted is NOT protected speech IMO as it represents a *piracy (theft) of service.*

Does the "promotion of specific technical plans" include such things as, oh let's say (How to encapsulate bulk powders Lesson (free) for all) that can be found in Nootropics & Brain Enhancers. Would it be fair to say that "marketing of products" includes phrases like "Empty capsules can be purchased at smi2le.biz or here". I for one am not ready to say that nootropi is quilty of theft of services.

[nootropi]

Now the marketing of products and the promotion of specific technical plans is a very different animal. First off the concern over Chiu’s marketing of his products here at Imminist, without either compensation to us or permission granted is NOT protected speech IMO as it represents a *piracy (theft) of service.*

Does the "promotion of specific technical plans" include such things as, oh let's say (How to encapsulate bulk powders Lesson (free) for all) that can be found in Nootropics & Brain Enhancers. Would it be fair to say that "marketing of products" includes phrases like "Empty capsules can be purchased at smi2le.biz or here". I for one am not ready to say that nootropi is quilty of theft of services.

thefirstimmortal: the reason why I have links to those items was to simplify the lives of the members of this forum. The only reason why the particular vendors are listed and linked to is because they have the best prices available on these items.

If anybody can refer me to cheaper prices on those items, let me know and I will be happy to update the page.

[thefirstimmortal]

thefirstimmortal: the reason why I have links to those items was to simplify the lives of the members of this forum. The only reason why the particular vendors are listed and linked to is because they have the best prices available on these items.

Your missing my point, read "Don Spanton on banned products", second row. The statement

promotion of specific technical plans is a very different animal. First off the concern over... marketing of... products here at Imminist, without either compensation to us or permission granted is NOT protected speech IMO as it represents a *piracy (theft) of service.*

is not mine. I'm using your promotion of a specific technical plan to show why we shouldn't disable links.

[Lazarus Long]

I thank you for bringing this to their attention Bill and I would add the concern over compensation is complex, not simple and I would encourage nootropi to enter the discussion you suggest as well.

There are supplement suppliers that are now sponsoring a banner ad here but that is different than exchanging knowledge. My concern (as only one voice) was not that Chui was sharing his technology, but that he was abusing the access here to spam though his signature. This is not a debate that is ended but one that is beginning and I am seeking input from all the members on how to establish fair limits for access to marketing.

This thread is not selling any specific product nor advocating and selling an *illegal substance*. It is a *generic exchange* of information and the person reading the data is welcome to obtain similar technology from their local independent source I suspect so Nootropi is not promoting his own interest per se.

Would it be fair to say that "marketing of products" includes phrases like "Empty capsules can be purchased at smi2le.biz or here".

Yes this does come dangerously close to a violation but it might be mitigated if the listing included ALL or at least a significant number of competing suppliers in this instance. In that manner are neither promoting any specific product nor preventing a consume from making an informed choice.

However this only represents my thoughts and opinion on the matter, not a decision of the Institute and the matter deserves a respectful adjudication IMO.

[thefirstimmortal]

Yes this does come dangerously close to a violation...

Violation of what??? They are harmless links, and ought to be left alone. It's strange, Alex Chui's links are fundamentaly no different, yet his links are destroyed.

[thefirstimmortal]

My concern (as only one voice) was not that Chui was sharing his technology, but that he was abusing the access here to spam though his signature.

Could you define spam??? The accusation has been made by many, currently none has supported that claim.

This thread is not selling any specific product...

Umm, empty capsules Laz, we are selling empty capsules here. [wis] See; Empty capsules can be purchased at smi2le.biz or here.

Well, maybe here it would be subject to censorship, or disabling it's link, but if it were in the freedom of speech forum, why would this kind of speech be subject to review. I see nothing wrong with links to places that sell something.



Smile Laz

[Lazarus Long]

[quote]
Umm, empty capsules Laz, we are selling empty capsules here. See; Empty capsules can be purchased at smi2le.biz or here. [/quote]

Because it abuses competition and unfairly exploits our service. This is a complex area of marketing but Imminst is not *public property* it is *private*. In this case I do not think it is an example of a proscribed product that might be prohibited due to concerns over its use, accessibility, and transferred liability to the organization but as this organization now sells advertising it is unfair to provide free advertising to some and then charge others.

Additionally my suggestion is that the way around this is to list a number of competing suppliers of such empty capsules and then it's merely an informative service being provided and not self promotion.

Rather than debate this here I agree that it deserves a formal assessment and resolution of the matter as the entire set of concerns demand a closer scrutiny and clarification, as well as our own organized decision of how to proceed.

These are relatively new issues and in part the result of our actions internally and rather than go off *half cocked* and make inconsistent responses I advocate a formal and open discussion of how to proceed and a vote first of the leadership subject to approval by the membership.

[quote]
Well, maybe here it would be subject to censorship, or disabling it's link, but if it were in the freedom of speech forum, why would this kind of speech be subject to review. I see nothing wrong with links to places that sell something.[/quote]

The Free Speech Forum is not an unlimited free market, it is a protected area for the exchange of ideas, not the exchange of currency and products and the liability for such trade transfers tot he parent organization under the law but there are no benefits, so it is certainly not in the interests of the parent organization IMO foster the practice of unrestricted marketing.

However, please remember that I have also advocated the creation of forum areas that would function as a *classified section* within the forum that might *sell* space at a nominal fee for the *advertisement* of individual personal products. This is analogous to a Newspaper and the arguments over the sale of such products still are subject to all kinds of restrictions under the rules of Free Speech. They are also discretionary to limits that are established by the management of such organizations and then enforced fairly without discrimination.

Please remember these are my ideas and suggestion, not rules as they are currently outlined under our bylaws. I am incorrectly putting them out for public discussion here in this thread where they do not belong and I think it is better to return to our regularly scheduled meeting to have this discussion.


[quote]
Could you define spam??? The accusation has been made by many, currently none has supported that claim. [/quote]

Well we are not talking about a form of barely recognizable meat product that we agree;))

Here is a modern dictionary definition:
http://dictionary.re...rch?r=67&q=SPAM

spam ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spm)
n.
Unsolicited e-mail, often of a commercial nature, sent indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups; junk e-mail.

tr.v. spammed, spam·ming, spams
To send unsolicited e-mail to.
To send (a message) indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[From Spam(probably inspired by a comedy routine on the British television series Monty Python's Flying Circus, in which the word is repeated incessantly).]

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Spam

A trademark used for a canned meat product consisting primarily of chopped pork pressed into a loaf.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


SPAM

n 1: a canned meat made largely from pork [syn: Spam] 2: unwanted e-mail (usually of a commercial nature sent out in bulk) [syn: junk e-mail] v : send unwanted or junk e-mail

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University


SPAM

1. (From Hormel's Spiced Ham, via the Monty Python "Spam" song) To post irrelevant or inappropriate messages to one or more Usenet newsgroups, mailing lists, or other messaging system in deliberate or accidental violation of netiquette.

It is possible to spam a newsgroup with one well- (or ill-) planned message, e.g. asking "What do you think of abortion?" on soc.women. This can be done by cross-posting, e.g. any message which is crossposted to alt.rush-limbaugh and alt.politics.homosexuality will almost inevitably spam both groups. (Compare troll and flame bait).

Posting a message to a significant proportion of all newsgroups is a sure way to spam Usenet and become an object of almost universal hatred. Canter and Siegel spammed the net with their Green card post.

If you see an article which you think is a deliberate spam, DO NOT post a follow-up - doing so will only contribute to the general annoyance. Send a polite message to the poster by private e-mail and CC it to "postmaster" at the same address. Bear in mind that the posting's origin might have been forged
or the apparent sender's account might have been used by someone else without his permission.

The word was coined as the winning entry in a 1937 competition to choose a name for Hormel Foods Corporation's "spiced meat" (now officially known as "SPAM luncheon meat"). Correspondant
Bob White claims the modern use of the term predates Monty Python by at least ten years. He cites an editor for the Dallas Times Herald describing Public Relations as "throwing a can of spam into an electric fan just to see if any of it would stick to the unwary passersby."

Usenet newsgroup: news:news.admin.net-abuse.

See also netiquette.

2. (A narrowing of sense 1, above) To indiscriminately send large amounts of unsolicited e-mail meant to promote a product or service. Spam in this sense is sort of like the electronic equivalent of junk mail sent to "Occupant".

In the 1990s, with the rise in commercial awareness of the net, there are actually scumbags who offer spamming as a "service" to companies wishing to advertise on the net. They do this by mailing to collections of e-mail addresses, Usenet news, or mailing lists. Such practises have caused outrage and aggressive reaction by many net users against the individuals concerned.

3. (Apparently a generalisation of sense 2, above) To abuse any network service or tool by for promotional purposes.

"AltaVista is an index, not a promotional tool. Attempts to fill it with promotional material lower the value of the index for everyone. [...] We will disallow URL submissions from those who spam the index. In extreme cases, we will exclude all their pages from the index." -- Altavista.

4. To crash a program by overrunning a fixed-size buffer with excessively large input data.

See also buffer overflow, overrun screw, smash the stack.

5. (A narrowing of sense 1, above) To flood any
chat forum or Internet game with purposefully annoying
text or macros. Compare Scrolling.

(2003-09-21)

Source: The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing, © 1993-2004 Denis Howe


SPAM

vt.,vi.,n. [from "Monty Python's Flying Circus"] 1. To crash a program by overrunning a fixed-size buffer with excessively large input data. See also buffer overflow, overrun screw, smash the stack.
2. To cause a newsgroup to be flooded with irrelevant or inappropriate messages. You can spam a newsgroup with as little as one well- (or ill-) planned message (e.g. asking "What do you think of abortion?" on soc.women). This is often done with cross-posting (e.g. any message which is crossposted to alt.rush-limbaugh and alt.politics.homosexuality will almost inevitably spam both groups). This overlaps with troll behavior; the latter more specific term has become more common.
3. To send many identical or nearly-identical messages separately to a large number
of Usenet newsgroups. This is more specifically called `ECP',
Excessive Cross-Posting. This is one sure way to infuriate nearly
everyone on the Net. See also velveeta and jello.
4. To bombard a newsgroup with multiple copies of a message. This is more specifically called `EMP', Excessive Multi-Posting.
5. Tomass-mail unrequested identical or nearly-identical email messages, particularly those containing advertising. Especially used when the mail addresses have been culled from network traffic or databases
without the consent of the recipients. Synonyms include UCE, UBE.
6. Any large, annoying, quantity of output. For instance, someone on IRC who walks away from their screen and comes back to find 200 lines of text might say "Oh no, spam".

The later definitions have become much more prevalent as the Internet has opened up to non-techies, and to most people senses 3 4 and 5 are now primary. All three behaviors are considered abuse of the net, and are almost universally grounds for termination of the originator's email account or network connection. In these senses the term `spam' has gone mainstream, though without its original sense or folkloric freight - there is apparently a widespread myth among lusers that "spamming" is what happens when you dump cans of
Spam into a revolving fan.

Source: Jargon File 4.2.0
[/quote]

Spam Laws in various countries
http://www.spamlaws.com/

In closing, this post should get cross linked (spammed) to our more focused discussion of the same and it should also be understood IMHO that these concepts of propriety and property are evolving ahead of formal definition and even law; so we are helping to define these limits as we go and should be granted a little slack IMO as we are not simply aritrating but trying to find a fair resolution to legitimate concerns.

As I am about to cross post elsewhere (one implied form of spam) I am suggest the fundamental issue is not about the limits of a Free Speech zone but that of a *Fee Speech* zone. )

Edit note: just trying to fixing your quote tags, unsuccessfully I might add, DS

Edited by DonSpanton, 08 November 2004 - 09:10 PM.

[thefirstimmortal]

Because it abuses competition and unfairly exploits our service.  This is a complex area of marketing but Imminst is not *public property* it is *private*.  In this case I do not think it is an example of a proscribed product that might be prohibited due to concerns over its use, accessibility, and transferred liability to the organization but as this organization now sells advertising it is unfair to provide free advertising to some and then charge others.

Isn't the truth that we are going through this whole exercise because Alex Chui's product offends some.

[Lazarus Long]

Isn't the truth that we are going through this whole exercise because Alex Chui's product offends some.

Perhaps true but irrelevant. It was not my concern specifically and I am pushing to move the debate to what can be done, why, and how.

The underlying concern is our credibility, product promotion and endorsement. My point is that as an organization we have a right to establish what products and services are conducted through us whether for free or free. We are not a publicly supported Town Square, we are a focused study group that occupies a small corner of the square with a little space we sell to those that want to reach our members. We might as well include some aspects that we seek to support for free but all this deserves a more thoughtful reflection IMO and then an exchange of thought with an eye toward resolution.

How we got into this mess is simply far less important to me than how we get out.

[ozone]

@Pinballwizard

I disagree with "The densities of certain mixtures vary a great deal. the -cetams are extremely light wait. You should only put in 400 mgs of a cetam in an 00 size pill. Most everything is pretty dense. Stick to the 400mg or less per 00 pill rule until you learn the densities. That way you pop 2 pills to make the 800mg dose which a lot of people take. However, you will find more room to spare with other products."

Irregardless of how dense something is, why try to only put 400mg in a 00 cap? Each cap can hold around 800mg of xx-cetams.

Here is what I've found to be the best method on capping.

1. Determine your daily dosage of everything.

For an example, lets say we want to mix Pricetam and Alpha-GPC.
Daily Dose: Pricetam=2.4g
Daily Dose: A-GPC=600mg

2. Determine if anything needs to be taken seperate or on an empty stomach (thus, it's unwise to mix tyrosine with pricetam since the former should be taken on an empty stomach, while not true with the latter)

3. Multiply your daily dose for each supplement by 100 (just a random number)

Pricetam 2.4g x 100 = 240g
A-GPC 600mg x 100 = 60g

4. Now mix all your powder (that can be taken together) together (ie., mix up that pricetam and a-gpc powder together in a big bowl)

5. Now, dump it all into caps and cap it all.

6. Then, divide the number of caps by the amount of powder mixed up.

Total 00' caps we made = 375 capsules
Total grams (240 + 60) = 300g

So, 300g / 375 caps = 800mg per capsule

Now, it's virtually impossible given our means using the cap-o-matic and stuff to fill each capusle with EXACTLY so much of something and something else simply because the densities are different. Thus, the best solution is what we did in step #4 to mix up all the powder. Hopefully, we will achieve a semi-even distribution.

So, how may pills of our 800mg caps do we take? Easy. Solve the following equation: 2400mg x (?) + 600mg x (?) = 800mg
The two quantities are what we set for our daily dose, and we are assuming we achieved a perfect distribution in the mixture. So the (?) when solved is .26667
Now, simply multiply that number by each of our quantities and you will determine the quantity of each per capsule.

2400mg x .266667 = 640mg of Pricetam per capsule
600mg x .266667 = 160mg of A-GPC per capsule

Therefore, you will need to take 4 capsules to get in your daily dose. [thumb]