103 replies to this topic

[Logan]

i tried some of this and it is unusually effective... kind of amazing actually

Schisandra or Cordyceps? Is this a recent trial or past?

Gotta love when something both makes you feel better and has other health promoting properties-Cordyceps-immunity/anticancer, Schisandra-liver health. The more I read about medicinal mushrooms and the studies behind them, the more I want to explore them for their overall wellness enhancing powers.

Edited by morganator, 23 August 2010 - 01:12 AM.

[Logan]

i tried some of this and it is unusually effective... kind of amazing actually

Schisandra or Cordyceps?

Gotta love when something both makes you feel better and has other health promoting properties-Cordyceps-immunity/anticancer, Schisandra-liver health/anticancer(I know I know, there seem to be so many anticancer substances out there nowadays). The more I read about medicinal mushrooms and the studies behind them, the more I want to explore them for their overall wellness enhancing powers.

[Logan]

OOps, double post, my bad:blink:

Edited by morganator, 23 August 2010 - 01:26 AM.

[ajnast4r]

the schizandra adrenal complex by planetary

[outsider]

That's my kind of thread.

Usually you get good results with an herb around 3g powder alone or in lower dose in synergy with others.

I'm taking 10 different herbs for a total of 10g and some extracts. I have similar results. I feel reishi is very good, when I added this one it made a difference, but then again reishi supp are extract equivalent to 5g of crude mushroom, pretty potent.

Also I've heard that goji berries are reputed to make people laugh more... must be good for the mood. Ron Teegarden at www.dragonherbs.com sells one with schizandra included and is one of his best seller.

Edited by outsider, 25 August 2010 - 10:11 AM.

[Animal]

I've ran out of Schizandra, need to get some more fast! Wonder if I'll notice the difference.

[aLurker]

Hmmm, should we be concerned at all that Schisandra may act somewhat as an AChE inhibitor?

http://www.google.co...ehOtgdnafmVy12g

I mean, AChE inhibitors are used to treat dementia and Alzheimer's, so it may not be such a bad thing, at least for hurting brains like mine.

I just remember reading about concerns over AChE inhibition and I can't remember why.

Otherwise, I've seen nothing but positive studies on Schisandra. O.k. now time for bed. Guess I wasn't feeling all that lazy. So here are some of those studies and articles.

http://www.google.co...J9v6EIFsUXCRyzw

http://www.google.co...lmrNVqZmTSaLsDQ

http://www.google.co...4ku3gETeYXYvTyg

http://www.google.co...KC6x874rA6ZSR3g

http://www.google.co...eKbtXEcwPouhKUw

http://www.google.co...m0yZFwN08EAM2hQ

http://www.google.co...DCUZ2mT3IOAkeZA

There's another study I read that concluded Schizandra my help prevent cartilage degeneration(if I read it correctly) but I can't find it now, getting tired.

Nice post. I also liked this post about Schisandra in another thread.

I couldn't find anything about the potential downsides of AChE inhibition, anyone know what they are?

I've ran out of Schizandra, need to get some more fast! Wonder if I'll notice the difference.

How are you holding out, how is the withdrawal?
I hope you get more soon, let us know about the difference when you get back on it.

How is the energy from Schisandra, more of a mental energy or a physical energy that might give you restlessness or jitters?

[outsider]

How are you holding out, how is the withdrawal?
I hope you get more soon, let us know about the difference when you get back on it.

How is the energy from Schisandra, more of a mental energy or a physical energy that might give you restlessness or jitters?

You don't get withdrawal from superior tonic herbs, just progressive down grade to your past baseline. It would be like saying "How is your body coping with withdrawal from stopping working-out?" Just doesn't make sense. Tonic herbs build-up your body and mind. They don't cheat.

[medievil]

I've ran out of Schizandra, need to get some more fast! Wonder if I'll notice the difference.

lol i know the problem, allways ordering too late and then running out . Altough with your fatigue problem its a bit of bigger problem.

[medievil]

I just went to get a multivitamin at the pharmacy and noticed that this one contains 15mg shisandra, on first sight seems like that is quite a bit underdosed tough.

[Animal]

How are you holding out, how is the withdrawal?
I hope you get more soon, let us know about the difference when you get back on it.

How is the energy from Schisandra, more of a mental energy or a physical energy that might give you restlessness or jitters?

It's definitely more of a smooth mental energy, feels very natural.

Well, I'm still out of Schizandra at the moment, and I can say that I've begun taking more Modafinil to compensate, which is far from ideal.

I'm looking forward to getting back on it, I definitely felt better while taking it, and my energy levels were far more balanced.

[strider]

have you noticed any tolerance or is it working just as well when you started it?

[ajnast4r]

the stimulating effects wore off for me after a few days of consecutive use

[outsider]

the stimulating effects wore off for me after a few days of consecutive use

In my experience it's almost always like that but after a couple of weeks your base line improves.

[Animal]

Finally got another bottle of the Adrenal Complex, not going to order so late again. Now I can start taking it along with the Cordyceps. Hopefully the wonderful synergy I briefly experienced when taking them together for a few days before I ran out will return.

Definitely been feeling too reliant on Modafinil and full sugar pepsi to give me energy lately.

[Logan]

Finally got another bottle of the Adrenal Complex, not going to order so late again. Now I can start taking it along with the Cordyceps. Hopefully the wonderful synergy I briefly experienced when taking them together for a few days before I ran out will return.

Definitely been feeling too reliant on Modafinil and full sugar pepsi to give me energy lately.

Full sugar pepsi...so bad. Lol, I'm craving one now. I would probably love the first few swigs and then have to throw the rest of it away.

Do you still notice some benefit from Cordyceps alone? What brand Cordyceps are you using again? I notice that I can breath easier and deeper, as if my lungs expand more and are looser, when I take Cordyceps. Do you notice the same?

I'm out of Schisandra and Cordyceps and I am definitely dragging. My hope is that these two supplements help me get back into the gym 5 days a weeks so I can return to feeling at least 70 percent of how I felt 2 or 3 years ago. I'm afraid I'm also going to need some pharmacological help in order to reach this goal.

[medievil]

Finally got another bottle of the Adrenal Complex, not going to order so late again. Now I can start taking it along with the Cordyceps. Hopefully the wonderful synergy I briefly experienced when taking them together for a few days before I ran out will return.

Definitely been feeling too reliant on Modafinil and full sugar pepsi to give me energy lately.

Good news, good luck mate.

[kenj]

O/T:

>>> full sugar pepsi to give me energy lately. <<<

Worst source of energy ever. In this regard, have you tried the new Monster Absolutely Zero (if you even drink that stuff.. if you try to get off caffeine forget what I say, then); - but besides the obvious caffeine content, and possibly questionable artificial sweeteners, it does contain zero calories/sugar, which should limit a crash greatly. I sip their 'lo-carbs' for ample kicks (and taste, mmmmm!), but I always look for (or should I say 'stare after' LOL) low calorie drinks.



Disclaimer: tho' I'm big on the 'placebo effect'.. Just holding a 32 oz bigazz Monster Heavy Metal can, gives me stamina to do the dishes backwards just for the fun ofit.

[kenj]

More O/T:

You know you rely too much on the Heavy Metal when you THROW OUT your fresh apples, soy (or whatever) milks, organic eggs, and even your freshly bought organic veggies to MAKE ROOM for the otherwise rare 32 oz Heavy Metal aluminium can, in your refrigerator.



EDIT: No, I don't really drink the Heavy Metal version..

Edited by kenj, 03 September 2010 - 08:44 PM.

[Rational Madman]

How are you holding out, how is the withdrawal?
I hope you get more soon, let us know about the difference when you get back on it.

How is the energy from Schisandra, more of a mental energy or a physical energy that might give you restlessness or jitters?

It's definitely more of a smooth mental energy, feels very natural.

Well, I'm still out of Schizandra at the moment, and I can say that I've begun taking more Modafinil to compensate, which is far from ideal.

I'm looking forward to getting back on it, I definitely felt better while taking it, and my energy levels were far more balanced.

I have a feeling that the adaptogenic properties of Schizandra are probably tied to the symptom relief, since the supplementation of adrenal tissue is on shaky scientific ground. If you want to continue to pursue this approach, I would suggest Ortho Adapt---which is a superior formulation. As an alternative, have you considered cortisol therapy, Ribose, NADH, high dose glycine (cofactor in glutathione synthesis), or agents that target 5ht1a? Further, do you think Tianeptine's suppression ACTH contributed to your symptoms? And, don't you think Rhodiola has more impressive evidence as an adaptogenic?

Edited by Rol82, 11 September 2010 - 07:45 AM.

[outsider]

How are you holding out, how is the withdrawal?
I hope you get more soon, let us know about the difference when you get back on it.

How is the energy from Schisandra, more of a mental energy or a physical energy that might give you restlessness or jitters?

It's definitely more of a smooth mental energy, feels very natural.

Well, I'm still out of Schizandra at the moment, and I can say that I've begun taking more Modafinil to compensate, which is far from ideal.

I'm looking forward to getting back on it, I definitely felt better while taking it, and my energy levels were far more balanced.

I have a feeling that the adaptogenic properties of Schizandra are probably tied to the symptom relief, since the supplementation of adrenal tissue is on shaky scientific ground. If you want to continue to pursue this approach, I would suggest Ortho Adapt---which is a superior formulation. As an alternative, have you considered cortisol therapy, Ribose, NADH, high dose glycine (cofactor in glutathione synthesis), or agents that target 5ht1a? Further, do you think Tianeptine's suppression ACTH contributed to your symptoms? And, don't you think Rhodiola has more impressive evidence as an adaptogenic?

Cortisol therapy ? wow I have big doubts about long term. Also doesn't mean Rhodiola is more popular that it is more effective. Schizandra has as much potential if you ask me.

You cannot equate effectiveness only with accumulated scientific evidences. There are so much of new discoveries on the horizon trust me.

[kreese]

This formula works mostly on the kidneys, lungs, and spleen according to Chinese medical theory. It's not a matter of adding Schizandra to a test tube and getting a certain reaction. BTW, when Chinese medicine uses names like 'kidney', they really refer to a set of interrelated physiological functions that may or may not originate from a particular organ. It may even refer to nervous system function.

The kidneys have a lot to do with balancing out your adrenals and sex hormones. No surprise there. They are considered the root of yin/yang in your body (yin/yang as in homeostasis in your body is usually regulated by opposing pairs of hormones/neurotransmitters). Weak kidneys will lead to deep exaustion, anxiety, and an inability to deal with stress.

The lungs have to do with getting energy from O2, so in this case there is a correlation with our normal concept of the lungs. The lungs and the kidney are related in that if the kidneys are weak, they can't 'grasp' the qi from the lungs. The sensation is that you can only produce a shallow inhalation. You feel short of breath. I'm not sure what that phenomenon really is, but it's real and you can feel it when you are fatigued.

The spleen is where the real focus should be in terms of CFS. The herbs that are commonly indicated for the spleen will tonify qi and drain dampness. Dampness could be edema, but could also have to do with a weakened ability to properly break down and absorb nutrients from food. If you are congenitally weak or have abused your body through a rockin' lifestyle, it's more important that you eat good quality food, since it's how you get your 'post-natal qi', the nurture side of the nature/nurture coin. Keith Richard can get away with eating cigarettes and whiskey, but Joe the runt needs to eat brown rice and organic grass fed beef, so to speak.

The spleen is also related to blood sugar regulation and thyroid function. Erratic eating habits and junk food obviously throw off the steady production of energy. The person with a weak spleen will tend to have a pot belly, edema, lassitude, trouble learning and memorizing, and fatigue, basically a slow metabolism and a bunch of food that isn't digesting fully. If you tone up the spleen with herbs like codonopsis, white atractylodes, poria, and honey fried licorice, you'll see a real difference in energy and even body composition, provided that you are getting a minimum of exercise. Your digestion will improve and your metabolic fire will be stoked.

This may all sound like voodoo, but if you take the herbs you'll feel it. No amount of intellectualizing will help you to understand herbal formulas, because you can't really isolate and simplify things down to A+B+C=D. For what it's worth.

[Animal]

Sadly I had to stop taking the Schizandra due to it aggravating my (currently well managed) acne prone skin. As long as I stick to my skincare regime I very rarely get spots, but the Schizandra caused the development of well beyond the normal amount of acne for me. I get this with ginseng too unfortunately, so I can't take that either, even though it helps me. A day after eliminating Schizandra from my stack the acne symptoms subsided, I tried taking it again and the same side-effects resulted and abated directly in proportion with my Schizandra usage.

I can't bear having any acne really since I used to suffer with an extreme form of the disease when younger, so I refuse to suffer with it now.

[tlm884]

I just picked up a bottle of the same complex from planetary herbals. I hope I am able to have the save effects as you. However, I will only be taking 2 tablets a day not 4.

[ajnast4r]

Sadly I had to stop taking the Schizandra due to it aggravating my (currently well managed) acne prone skin. As long as I stick to my skincare regime I very rarely get spots, but the Schizandra caused the development of well beyond the normal amount of acne for me. I get this with ginseng too unfortunately, so I can't take that either, even though it helps me. A day after eliminating Schizandra from my stack the acne symptoms subsided, I tried taking it again and the same side-effects resulted and abated directly in proportion with my Schizandra usage.

I can't bear having any acne really since I used to suffer with an extreme form of the disease when younger, so I refuse to suffer with it now.

i had to stop taking it for the same reason... although i cant say for sure if it was the schizandra bc theres so many other herbs in the adrenal complex. ide be interested in hearing your skincare regimen if you wanna pm it to me.

[tlm884]

I just picked up a bottle of the same complex from planetary herbals. I hope I am able to have the save effects as you. However, I will only be taking 2 tablets a day not 4.

So I took two capsules earlier today. And normally when I have caffeine I have a paradoxical effect. I get groggy and fatigued and want to crash out. However, tonight I had a half caffeine latte and I am wired. This is not typical for me. The adrenal fatigue I was suffering ruled out stimulant use for me all together. I am quite happy thus far. I hope I don't develop an acne problem. However, my unorthodox acne regimen keeps it in check pretty well.

[caruga]

I bought Nature's way 580mg schizandra capsules yesterday, took 8 throughout the whole day, felt nothing, although it may be hard for me to discern effects when I'm taking so many supplements. Probably should have gone with the combo recommended in the OP.

[Lufega]

I'm not surprise people are responding well to schizandra. AChE inhibitors are used to treat fatigue and muscle weakness in patients with myasthenia Gravis and CFS. There are two kinds, one that crosses the BBB and another that works in the peripheral system. An example of this is physostigmine and pyridostigmine, respectively. This study was posted earlier showing that AChE- I work to combat fatigue in CFS. This implies that there is an autonomic disorder involved in CFS. So there you go. But, pyridostigmine is expensive and I felt like I developed tolerance over time. I'm really curious to try schziandra now so thanks for this post !

Efficacy of a half dose of oral pyridostigmine in the treatment of chronic fatigue syndrome: three case reports.
Kawamura Y, Kihara M, Nishimoto K, Taki M.

Department of Neurology, Kawamura Hospital, Gifu, Japan


Abstract
Chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is characterized by persistent mental and physical fatigue for at least 6 months. Its pathophysiology is unknown and there is no proven effective treatment. We describe three cases who fulfill the criteria of CFS, in whom a defect of neuromuscular transmission and dysautonomia are present and who respond to acetylcholine-esterase inhibition. Case 1: 18-year-old female with a 3-year history of CFS. Response of compound-muscle-action potential, recorded using surface recording electrode, over left abductor pollicis brevis muscle, to repetitive nerve stimulation (RNS) at a rate of 10 Hz showed a 42% incremental response. Composite autonomic scoring system (CASS) showed mild cholinergic impairment (cardiovagal score: 1; sudomotor score: 2). Serological tests for Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) revealed positive antiviral capsid antigens (anti-VCA) immunoglobulins G (IgG). Oral pyridostigmine therapy (30 mg) resulted in marked improvement in symptoms. Case 2: 28-year-old female with 10-year history of CFS. RNS, using identical protocol, showed a 60% incremental response over the same muscle. CASS showed mild cholinergic impairment (cardiovagal score: 1; sudomotor score: 2) and this patient was also positive for EBV. This patient responded dramatically to 10-mg pyridostigmine. Case 3: 29-year-old female with a history of CFS for longer than 15 years. Repetitive stimulation, using identical paradigm to left abductor pollicis brevis muscle, showed a 42% incremental response. CASS showed mildly cholinergic impairment (cardiovagal score: 2; sudomotor score: 1). EBV antibody titers were positive. Patient responded to 30-mg pyridostigmine with an improvement in her fatigue. These three cases generate the hypothesis that the fatigue in some patients with clinical CFS might be due to a combination of mild neuromuscular transmission defect combined with cholinergic dysautonomia. Support for this thesis derives from the improvement with cholinesterase inhibition.

PMID: 14567934 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

[Lufega]

Just got my order in and took two pills. I did notice that it reduced anxiety noticeably but I feel a little edgy and energized. Will try just one pill, twice a day.

[bobman]

I agree with kilgore. Such controlling jealousy is a clear sign of insecurities. She probably just wants to keep you around as her security blanket since it makes her feel good about herself. Even if I'm totally wrong about that you should definitely start seeing others even if you're still talking to her.

To keep this somewhat on topic: does tolerance to the Schisandra product or Eluthero seem to build up?

Well that week long break from txting or talking didn't last, she started txting me again today and rang me earlier on, saying that she missed communicating with me and couldn't stand a week without contact. I'll just make clear that she lives in London and I live in Coventry, which are 1-2hrs away by train, so it's not like we can see each other very easily. So we had a pleasant conversation and she said she'd bought me a gift, a real prehistoric insect trapped in amber that cost her over £60, that is a gift that I would love by the way. I'm not sure what's going on because yesterday I said I was going to send her some flowers and chocolate and she wouldn't let me because she claimed it was too romantic, but her gift is more neutral so it's okay. Bah, I'm confused, so what I'm going to do is play this game where we pretend to just be 'friends' for a few weeks and see where it leads. If I don't feel that we're going to get back together after this amount of time I'll just let our friendship evaporate because it'll help me move on properly.

I've realised though that my continued attraction to her isn't solely emotional, her appearance is a major factor, I think she looks incredible, though I know she wouldn't be to everyone's taste. Also the sex was by far the best I've ever had. I only mention this because I'm wondering if we're just not compatible personality wise, but I'm trying to get back with her for superficial reasons.

I don't think tolerance develops, I've continued to take my current dose every day and it still seems as effective as ever.

Oh you chump