18 replies to this topic

[Forever21]

Christians must be rejoicing about this. Dinesh for sure.

http://ac360.blogs.c...-not-me/?hpt=C2

[aLurker]

Thanks for posting the interview. While the odds are against him I sincerely hope he gets better. I've enjoyed his books and debates very much. I have to read his "letters to a young contrarian" when I have more time. His memoirs "Hitch 22" also look intriguing, I hope he lives long enough to write a sequel.

[brokenportal]

This is one of my favorite people. We wrote him for the VIP Outreach. One of his quotes from this:

"Many people upon receiving a cancer diagnosis would ask "why me?" Hitchens's answer, is "why not me?""


Heres a good one.
http://www.youtube.c...IuoCq4w#t=1m30s

[Soma]

Religion poisons everything.

Yes, it does.

Religion, in its current form, needs to die and thankfully I think that it may be in its death throes.

[bacopa]

Such a mind, ugh. It sounds like he didn't take good care of himself from his talking about could have lead a healthier life. But it's obviously no less tragic because he may have smoked etc. It's appalling and I hope he fights on.

Maybe we could use this as a motivator to write or call the FDA, NIH, and Congress, to change the system based on the Begeley article on why promising research never sees the clinical trials, or the other article on how only 5% of cancer research is being done on metastastis which kills 95% of the patients.

Maybe if we got angry enough and started to voice our ideas we would concern enough people in these orgs, so they might want to change how things are being done as well.

That 60 minutes episode showing Extra Cellular Matrix treating, seemingly well, a man with a serious cancer was very inspiring, and the man seems to be doing great. He had the same cancer as Hitchins.

I get annoyed at people who say, "no one will listen," as this is not true, I've had people personally write to me, answering my every question regarding cancer, research, more than once. There are many people working for these orgs, who are damn good people who fear the same things we do. I think it was Eternal Traveler who said it's not the people, but the system that's broken. We just need to show people the flaws in this complex health care system.

Edited by dfowler, 06 August 2010 - 11:17 PM.

[FearAll]

He simultaneously rejects the idea of religion while his ideas are molded specifically in relation to their absence, rather than as a positive for something other than religion. Hitchens is obviously a bright and clever guy. Philosophy is not his strong point sadly.

I hope he defeats this monster

Edited by FearAll, 08 August 2010 - 02:59 AM.

[Soma]

...rather than as a positive for something other than religion.

The "other than religion" something is just that- no religion- which is positive.

"Imagine...nothing to kill or die for and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace..." - John Lennon

[brokenportal]

He simultaneously rejects the idea of religion while his ideas are molded specifically in relation to their absence, rather than as a positive for something other than religion. Hitchens is obviously a bright and clever guy. Philosophy is not his strong point sadly.

I hope he defeats this monster

The rejection and refutation of superstition, false foundations, books that say kill for ridiculous things, and train people to believe its alright to accept that there is an invisible friend in the sky waiting to whisk them away to a magical candy land upon death seems like part of a pretty good philosophy to me.

[aLurker]

He simultaneously rejects the idea of religion while his ideas are molded specifically in relation to their absence, rather than as a positive for something other than religion. Hitchens is obviously a bright and clever guy. Philosophy is not his strong point sadly.

Rational thinking IS something positive. Hitchens is fighting for a renewed Enlightenment.

You didn't have to look further than Wikipedia to find this excerpt from "god is not great":

"above all, we are in need of a renewed Enlightenment, which will base itself on the proposition that the proper study of mankind is man and woman [referencing Alexander Pope]. This Enlightenment will not need to depend, like its predecessors, on the heroic breakthroughs of a few gifted and exceptionally courageous people. It is within the compass of the average person. The study of literature and poetry, both for its own sake and for the eternal ethical questions with which it deals, can now easily depose the scrutiny of sacred texts that have been found to be corrupt and confected. The pursuit of unfettered scientific inquiry, and the availability of new findings to masses of people by electronic means, will revolutionize our concepts of research and development. Very importantly, the divorce between the sexual life and fear, and the sexual life and disease, and the sexual life and tyranny, can now at last be attempted, on the sole condition that we banish all religions from the discourse. And all this and more is, for the first time in our history, within the reach if not the grasp of everyone"

To me and many others that sounds like a very positive and worthwhile philosophy, whether you agree or not.

I hope he defeats this monster

That goes for both cancer and religion.

[FearAll]

He simultaneously rejects the idea of religion while his ideas are molded specifically in relation to their absence, rather than as a positive for something other than religion. Hitchens is obviously a bright and clever guy. Philosophy is not his strong point sadly.

I hope he defeats this monster

The rejection and refutation of superstition, false foundations, books that say kill for ridiculous things, and train people to believe its alright to accept that there is an invisible friend in the sky waiting to whisk them away to a magical candy land upon death seems like part of a pretty good philosophy to me.

while he may be adept at pointing out religious absurdities, he fails spectacularly when it comes to providing a valid secular alternative to the moral guidance provided by religion— he endorses essentially the same ethics as do the religionists-and thats my main issue with him and the new atheists for that matter.

[FearAll]

...rather than as a positive for something other than religion.

The "other than religion" something is just that- no religion- which is positive.

"Imagine...nothing to kill or die for and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace..." - John Lennon

Absence of bad philosophy is not necessarily good philosophy though, especially if you're talking about “innate conscience”/"innate rationality" in your book (or trying to provide an evolutionary basis for innate moral ideas as Dawkins does). Anyhow thats a different topic for a different time, its suffice to say that Hitchens has a lot of contradictions. Hopefully he makes a speedy recovery

[brokenportal]

while he may be adept at pointing out religious absurdities, he fails spectacularly when it comes to providing a valid secular alternative to the moral guidance provided by religion— he endorses essentially the same ethics as do the religionists-and thats my main issue with him and the new atheists for that matter.

Im not sure that I would consider not knowing a spectacular failure. What is not good at all, it seems, a "spectacular failure" if you will, is not knowing, but pretending you do know, as religion does. We know things about the universe, just because we dont know where the universe came from doesnt mean we dont know anything else. At one time we didnt know where the flu came from, but that didnt mean that trying to figure out where it came from wasnt the answer. Certainly pretending we know the answer, that, "the gods gave us this illness" or some such thing, was not the answer, which was given in those times.

There might be a god, but lets find that out. I sum it up as part of this list of 8:

http://www.imminst.o...-8/page__st__20

If religion doesnt have the answers, and agnostics dont have the answers, which do you choose, the one that pretends to know, or the one that is looking for them? A moral guide built on lies sounds more like an immoral guide doesnt it? Doesnt telling the truth and seeking the truth seem moral?

I hope you dont take this as antagonistic. I write this purely in the context of discussion. I could be wrong about all I write here.

Hitchens has a lot of contradictions.

I havent listened to all of hitchens debates, but which contradictions? Im sure he may have some as an "anti-theist" but I cant think of any contradictions in agnosticism, the two of which seem to be largely one in the same.

[Soma]

he fails spectacularly when it comes to providing a valid secular alternative to the moral guidance provided by religion

The morality within religion is contingent upon the reward/punishment paradigm. With the "faithful", you can never be quite sure whether their actions are a genuine reflection of inner values or if they are motivated by fear of divine punishment or the hope of divine reward, relative to their particular belief system. Thus, it could be reasoned that mainstream religion, as it is practiced, is a profoundly selfish institution.

Religion offers no genuine moral guidance. Religion is like the domineering parent for a humanity that is still in its spiritual infancy. It attempts to coerce good behavior with the promise of rewards and thwart bad behavior with threats. Ironically, it ultimately creates more "bad" behavior than good, as everyone fights over their "God."

Hopefully mankind will outgrow this relatively soon.

[medicineman]

Hitchens criticisms of some characters imo is spot on. I hope he beats this monster, and I hope he stays around to keep some of these celeb psychos in check....

[shadowhawk]

Hitchens writes in a article in Vanity Fair:
"Against me is the blind, emotionless alien, cheered on by some who have long wished me ill. But on the side of my continued life is a group of brilliant and selfless physicians plus an astonishing number of prayer groups. On both of these I hope to write next time if—as my father invariably said—I am spared."
http://www.getreligion.org/?p=40339

He has been one of the most articulate of many Atheists. I found myself in more agreement with his political views than his Atheist perspectives.
20craig


I and many other Christians will be praying for him, not because death brings some victory of argument. Under the circumstances who cares about argument. I genuinely like the man and experience a grief for him and his situation.

Edited by shadowhawk, 10 August 2010 - 10:57 PM.

[aLurker]

Here is another quite recent interview with Hitchens about his battle against cancer.

[bacopa]

Hitchens writes in a article in Vanity Fair:
"Against me is the blind, emotionless alien, cheered on by some who have long wished me ill. But on the side of my continued life is a group of brilliant and selfless physicians plus an astonishing number of prayer groups. On both of these I hope to write next time if—as my father invariably said—I am spared."
http://www.getreligion.org/?p=40339

He has been one of the most articulate of many Atheists. I found myself in more agreement with his political views than his Atheist perspectives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqIjhmtSgs4&feature=pyv&ad=6812944909&kw=william%20lane% 20craig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9NlRKJBKt4&feature=related

I and many other Christians will be praying for him, not because death brings some victory of argument. Under the circumstances who cares about argument. I genuinely like the man and experience a grief for him and his situation.

I definitely would look to my practitioners as he has, in that, I would be hoping for the best from my medical team. He is doing all the hopefull thinking that I would, given such circumstances.

[kismet]

My alternative makes more sense.

...he fails spectacularly when it comes to providing a valid secular alternative to the immoral guidance provided by religion..

There is no morality provided by religion, at least none which is not rooted in human nature (of course, because all religions are man-made...)

Morality necessary develops by natural selection (or "social evolution"), as it is necessary for species survival. Biology 101 and no need for sky fairies.

Edited by kismet, 14 September 2010 - 06:39 PM.

[N.T.M.]

I've only read one of his books, but I really enjoyed it (I'll read more later). I hope he recovers here.