17 replies to this topic

[rdanneskjold]

Hey Everyone,

I posted not long ago about my 'Nootropic Journey", descibing the wonder of finding a drug that finally popped me out of my mental fog and mild depression.

But alas, the Wellbutrin (bupropion) and Stablon (Tianeptine) combo does not seem to have the same effect anymore, about two months later. I had heard about how the effects of Stablon are temporary for some, and I'm very disappointed that I have fallen into that group.

For now, I am going to drop the Wellbutrin and just take the Stablon, to see if that makes any difference. But I'm wondering:

--Is there any other purported drug that Stablon 'synergizes' with? (e.g., Piracetam, Modafinil, etc.)

--Would taking a holiday of a couple weeks be enough to re-sensitize me to Stablon? or am I all done?

Nothing else ever worked for me like that, in such a dramatic fashion. I have tried Lexapro, and was really not impressed. and being that Lexapro is touted as having the least of side effects, I am really not anxious to go the SSRI route.

Any advice and comments are most welcome!

-Dadnneskjold

[health_nutty]

My depression was helped tremendously with 20mg of lithium (from lithium orotate) and 10g of fish oil (3g of omega 3's) a day.

[rdanneskjold]

That's something I've started myself, but only at 5mg. anyone think that upping that dose would help?

Today is my first day with Stablon only. fyi

Danneskjold

[health_nutty]

That's something I've started myself, but only at 5mg. anyone think that upping that dose would help?

Today is my first day with Stablon only. fyi

Danneskjold

I noticed something at 5mg. Try that dose for a week before making any changes. Too much and some people get brain fog. Too little and the effect is less. I had a some brain fog when I first tried a higher dose (20mg) but it went away after a lowered a slowely increased dosage back up.

[chrono]

That's something I've started myself, but only at 5mg. anyone think that upping that dose would help?

If your goal is to help with depression, I think there's a good chance you would get better efficacy at a higher dose. Maybe up to 10-15mg?

But as health_nutty said, I'd wait a while on each 5mg dose. I got brain fog/tiredness pretty heavily for a week or two after starting at 5mg. I would stay on each new dose at least a week, maybe two, and if it affects you strongly you could up it by 1/4-1/2 pill at a time. Also, see this thread for some thoughts about dosing schedule.

[NR2(x)]

I think you are being very conservative with your dosing, tianeptine is indicated for doses up to 150mg per day. Users have reported using up to 2 grams a day without ill effect.
The drug works via decreasing 5-ht-1a activity, there are other drugs that do the same thing. Hydergine methsergide? etc, the decrease in 5-ht-1a is equivalent to a dopamine 1 agonist. I have no experience with this medicine....Maybe order the drug in bulk

[Animal]

I think you are being very conservative with your dosing, tianeptine is indicated for doses up to 150mg per day. Users have reported using up to 2 grams a day without ill effect.
The drug works via decreasing 5-ht-1a activity, there are other drugs that do the same thing. Hydergine methsergide? etc, the decrease in 5-ht-1a is equivalent to a dopamine 1 agonist. I have no experience with this medicine....Maybe order the drug in bulk

2 grams is a massive overdose, and the cost would be absurd, keep this bullshit misinformation to yourself. 3x12.5mg/day is the recommended dosage with 75mg/day being the maximum dosage prescribed by physicians.

[rdanneskjold]

I suppose I should back up and give some more detail. Here is my 'stack'

2.5mg Selegiline (mostly for the life extension/ neuro-protective aspect)
3 x 12.5mg Stablon (Tianeptine)
2 x 5mg Lithium Orotate
2 x .15mg Catapres (clonodine) for blood pressure/ stress/ anxiety
2 x 1500mg fish oil
various sundry supplements like Resveratol, N-acetyl cysteine, and a multi, which I break in half and take on opposite ends of the day. I may drink a cup or two of coffee, but mostly I don't any more.

I have been reading more about Selegilene. I'm thinking about giving the Stablon a holiday, and try kicking up the Selegiline to 5mg.

I have also had pretty good results with Piracetam and may give that a go again. I'm a little worried about interactions, so anyone who sees anything in that list that should not be mixed, please tell.



Thanks for all the thoughtful responses so far!

-Danneskjold

[NR2(x)]

A Case of Tianeptine Abuse
by
Vandel P, Regina W, Bonin B, Sechter D, Bizouard P
Service de Psychiatrie et Psychologie Medicale,
CHU Saint-Jacques,
Besancon.
Turk Psikiyatri Derg. 2006 Spring;17(1):72-75.

ABSTRACT Tianeptine is an antidepressant agent like the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). The anxiolytic efficacy of tianeptine is similar to that of tricyclic and tetracyclic antidepressants. Very few cases have been reported in connection with excessive consumption of tianeptine. Although it is not reconciled with results of many studies on excessive consumption of tianeptine, stimulant action has been specifically emphasized on some case reports of tianeptine abuse. These reports indicate that a tolerance is developed, there is a strong mode of feeling, and there are physical withdrawal symptoms if not taken again. Treatment with tianeptine can pose a risk for addicted patients in terms of high doses as well as tolerability. In this article, we report a 24-year-old patient who abused tianeptine for one year. The biological tolerance was excellent, and hepatic parameters were not affected. The patient experienced and seeks a psychostimulant effect. The patient had a previous history of addiction to cannabis, opiates and cocaine. We concluded that the effect of tianeptine and its addiction risk at the patient who had a history of addiction to multiple substances, and spontaneously increased dose of tianeptine during the last one year up to 3000 mg per day at present. In the literature, reports of addictions to antidepressants are scarce and most of them involve agents with amphetamine-like properties, including amineptine and tranylcypromine. Other reports involving other antidepressant agents, including amitriptyline, fluoxetine and tianeptine remain exceptional.

[kassem23]

What are your symptoms? MDD of the melancholic type? If so, a high dose fish-oil supplement (EPA, IIRC) would reduce plasma cortisol and decrease HPA-axis activity and be a help in alleviating depressive symptoms.

[Animal]

A Case of Tianeptine Abuse
by
Vandel P, Regina W, Bonin B, Sechter D, Bizouard P
Service de Psychiatrie et Psychologie Medicale,
CHU Saint-Jacques,
Besancon.
Turk Psikiyatri Derg. 2006 Spring;17(1):72-75.

ABSTRACT Tianeptine is an antidepressant agent like the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). The anxiolytic efficacy of tianeptine is similar to that of tricyclic and tetracyclic antidepressants. Very few cases have been reported in connection with excessive consumption of tianeptine. Although it is not reconciled with results of many studies on excessive consumption of tianeptine, stimulant action has been specifically emphasized on some case reports of tianeptine abuse. These reports indicate that a tolerance is developed, there is a strong mode of feeling, and there are physical withdrawal symptoms if not taken again. Treatment with tianeptine can pose a risk for addicted patients in terms of high doses as well as tolerability. In this article, we report a 24-year-old patient who abused tianeptine for one year. The biological tolerance was excellent, and hepatic parameters were not affected. The patient experienced and seeks a psychostimulant effect. The patient had a previous history of addiction to cannabis, opiates and cocaine. We concluded that the effect of tianeptine and its addiction risk at the patient who had a history of addiction to multiple substances, and spontaneously increased dose of tianeptine during the last one year up to 3000 mg per day at present. In the literature, reports of addictions to antidepressants are scarce and most of them involve agents with amphetamine-like properties, including amineptine and tranylcypromine. Other reports involving other antidepressant agents, including amitriptyline, fluoxetine and tianeptine remain exceptional.

Thanks for proving my point, doses in the range of 2g/day are considered abuse, resulting in addiction, dependence and withdrawal when discontinued, something healthy Tianeptine dosing dosing does not result in. I would consider that 'ill effect'.

[NR2(x)]

Yes ok, i definitly wouldnt recommend, also it maybe toxic at that dose to where tolerance not developed to these levels. But if it really works 100mg a day should not be a problem.

[Animal]

Yes ok, i definitly wouldnt recommend, also it maybe toxic at that dose to where tolerance not developed to these levels. But if it really works 100mg a day should not be a problem.

Maybe, but the cost would be huge!

[rdanneskjold]

What are your symptoms? MDD of the melancholic type? If so, a high dose fish-oil supplement (EPA, IIRC) would reduce plasma cortisol and decrease HPA-axis activity and be a help in alleviating depressive symptoms.

Hmmmm... I mainly take fish oil for cardiovascular health, but I guess it's time to read up on the psychological aspects of it. What would you consider a high enough dose to do some noticeable good?

(for my history, read my original post http://www.imminst.o...otropic-journey) Basically mild depression, lack of energy, and everything else that you'd expect that comes with middle age.

Oh, and I'm not here to plug any pharmacy, but I have seen the best deals for what I take from Pharmacy Express and Pharmacy Escrow. My Stablon is about $.70 a pill, and about the same for Wellbutrin. FWIW

-Danneskjold

[NR2(x)]

Can always order in bulk powder and get lab to perform quality control. I got a quote of 400USD for 50grams

Edited by NR2(x), 10 August 2010 - 07:15 AM.

[rdanneskjold]

What are your symptoms? MDD of the melancholic type? If so, a high dose fish-oil supplement (EPA, IIRC) would reduce plasma cortisol and decrease HPA-axis activity and be a help in alleviating depressive symptoms.

I have minor depression, low energy, low motivation. Stablon was the only thing I ever took that immediately shook me loose of all that.

Sounds like I need to read up on the benefits of fish oil that extend beyond cardiovascular....I'll give it a shot--

As of today, I am stopping the Stablon as well as the Wellbutrin. I am hoping that after a period of a couple of weeks I will be re-sensitized.

I really wish someone had some info on whether this will be effective. Anyone?


--Danneskjold

[rdanneskjold]

Can always order in bulk powder and get lab to perform quality control. I got a quote of 400USD for 50grams

I get Stablon for about $.70 per pill from Pharmacy Escrow. Out of curiosity, where do you get the bulk product?

-Danneskjold

[NR2(x)]

Chemcial supply firms in China and India, its a real pain to perform due diligence. I get a Chinese friend to find them in a phone directory and talk to them. Theres quite a few leads accross the net. I really want to find a supplier of quality affordable peptides.