18 replies to this topic

[babyseal]

I am recovering from Lyme disease and while my body is recovering my brain is nowhere near where it used to be.

I looked into some nootropics and tried alpha GPC.

It works well for me. I experience greatly increased focus and mental energy, and I can think about studying and doing difficult mental tasks again.

I ran across this thread about how alpha GPC does not seem to be good for Alzheimer's patients, who probably have too much of it.

I'm not an Alzheimer's patient and those concerns might not apply to me, but I am still concerned about whether messing with my brain with alpha GPC will be good for me.

I might just use it for a few weeks or months, to get my brain into higher gear (and to get myself studying again), and then taper off?

The Source Naturals brand I am using recommends taking 2 300mg capsules twice a day for a few weeks, then 1 twice a day after that.

I've been using only 1 twice a day (600mg/d) and it feels like plenty.

Are there other nootropics that have been studied more? I would be interested in Piracetam, but I don't know where to find it.

[Thorsten3]

I am recovering from Lyme disease and while my body is recovering my brain is nowhere near where it used to be.

I looked into some nootropics and tried alpha GPC.

It works well for me. I experience greatly increased focus and mental energy, and I can think about studying and doing difficult mental tasks again.

I ran across this thread about how alpha GPC does not seem to be good for Alzheimer's patients, who probably have too much of it.

I'm not an Alzheimer's patient and those concerns might not apply to me, but I am still concerned about whether messing with my brain with alpha GPC will be good for me.

I might just use it for a few weeks or months, to get my brain into higher gear (and to get myself studying again), and then taper off?

The Source Naturals brand I am using recommends taking 2 300mg capsules twice a day for a few weeks, then 1 twice a day after that.

I've been using only 1 twice a day (600mg/d) and it feels like plenty.

Are there other nootropics that have been studied more? I would be interested in Piracetam, but I don't know where to find it.

It is strange how these supplements effect each of us differently. Alpha GPC, looks great on paper and I was sure it would be a great addition to my stack - also potentiating the effect of piracetam but each time I have taken it (in doses no larger than 300mg) it has resulted in about 4/5 hours of really bad depression. I really can't stand the stuff.
There are a few studies on pubmed showing that Alpha GPC has nootropic qualities and is not just an 'add on' for a piracetam regime, but actually a decent nootropic in its own right. If you are worried about the lack of studies that prove its safety it might be worth trying the other forms of choline supplements you can buy (they'd still fill your brain with choline but you wouldn't neccessarily get the extra nootropic qualities that Alpha is renowned for). Oh and piracetam is very much worth a go considering how cheap it is but it doesn't do much for memory. It is great for mental energy, enhanced focus, increased logical thinking and improved creativity though.

You don't know where to find piracetam? Where do you live, on the moon?

[health_nutty]

Piracetam is easily obtained online, but can't be obtained from brick and mortar stores (unlike alpha-gpc).

[chrono]

Some good posts in that thread. A lot of the argument against its usefulness in treating AD is pretty sound. I'll note that the first review post suggests that alpha GPC doesn't increase choline or ACh levels, which it does [1] [2].

This is the idea that worries me. Enhancing the neurotoxic effect of ambyloid-β makes me nervous, though I'm not sure if it's a practical concern for the young and healthy.

Starting in the mid- to late-1990s, studies conducted using a number of techniques, including in vitro solution and membrane experiments, and NMR analyses of in vivo and postmortem brains, led several researchers to conclude that increased GPC concentrations may play a role in the deposition of the Abeta plaques observed in Alzheimer's brains, and the Abeta aggregates seen in CSF from AD patients. For example, in vitro studies on GPC and Abeta in solution and mixed with erythrocyte membranes showed that GPC changes the conformation of Abeta in solution or in membranes, enhancing its aggregation in solution, and enhancing its aggregation and accumulation in the phospholipid head-group region of membranes. Other phospholipid breakdown products do not have similar effects.

I couldn't find anything with an impatient pubmed search, but maybe I'll try some more when I find some time.

So to answer your question, not sure yet if there's an answer in the research. It's probably fine, at least for the short term. Is this the only choline precursor which gives you this cognitive enhancement? CDP choline might be worth trying, as well.

Edited by chrono, 25 September 2010 - 12:41 AM.
grammar police

[babyseal]

Thanks.

I have tried CDP choline in the past, and it made me very happy - non-depressed, but then when I would try to fall asleep, I'd get sleepy but I would remain conscious while falling asleep, like I was observing myself fall asleep. It was too weird and made it hard to sleep. Pregnenolone did this to me, too.

[pycnogenol]

Thanks.

I have tried CDP choline in the past, and it made me very happy - non-depressed, but then when I would try to fall asleep, I'd get sleepy but I would remain conscious while falling asleep, like I was observing myself fall asleep. It was too weird and made it hard to sleep. Pregnenolone did this to me, too.

Hi babyseal,

I had the same problem with pregnenolone as you did plus it made me rather cranky.

What time of day did you take the CDP-choline? I just take plain old choline
around noon because taking it later than 1:00 or 2:00 PM causes insomnia.

Edited by pycnogenol, 13 August 2010 - 10:39 PM.

[chrono]

but then when I would try to fall asleep, I'd get sleepy but I would remain conscious while falling asleep, like I was observing myself fall asleep. It was too weird and made it hard to sleep.

I get this same effect from alpha GPC. I never get insomnia with piracetam, unless I take GPC with it later than halfway through my day. Pretty much just as you describe; quite sleepy, but unable to suspend my conscious focus. Can be worse than taking caffeine at night.

[nito]

Has anybody tried Alpha GPC powder from smartpowders? Is it meant to taste sweet like sugar or have i been duped?

[chrono]

Has anybody tried Alpha GPC powder from smartpowders? Is it meant to taste sweet like sugar or have i been duped?

I bought some a while back, and still have most of it. IIRC it's 50% maltose by weight; this is because pure alpha GPC sucks water out of the air and makes a goopy mess.

[nito]

Has anybody tried Alpha GPC powder from smartpowders? Is it meant to taste sweet like sugar or have i been duped?

I bought some a while back, and still have most of it. IIRC it's 50% maltose by weight; this is because pure alpha GPC sucks water out of the air and makes a goopy mess.

Oh oki. I also bought sulbutiamine which doese't taste as foul as everyone claims but it does make your urine stink like after you have taken b vitamin so it's got to be the real deal. On top of that i got some aniracetam which looks like baking powder, unlike piracetam which looks more crystallized, and aniracetam doesn't really have any particular taste, again hopefully everything i buy from smart powders is genuine.

[Mike M]

I'm actually having dinner with the USA manufacture of AGPC tomorrow.

[nito]

I'm actually having dinner with the USA manufacture of AGPC tomorrow.

Hey mike, can you put either aniracetam, alpha gpc or sulbutiamine under your tongue and still get the same benefit or is your powder not suitable for that? Also how many mg is a level headed scoop of the one you provide when you buy piracetam in the past?

[chrono]

I'm actually having dinner with the USA manufacture of AGPC tomorrow.

It's an endogenous chemical; we're all manufacturers

Hey mike, can you put either aniracetam, alpha gpc or sulbutiamine under your tongue and still get the same benefit or is your powder not suitable for that? Also how many mg is a level headed scoop of the one you provide when you buy piracetam in the past?

The scoop is 1.7mL, and 1/4tsp is 1.2mL. If it gives you a measurement on the tub, you can figure it out from that.

Not sure if you'd want to put the alpha GPC under your tongue if it's 50% maltose. Not sure why you'd want to do it at all, really, unless the bioavailability would be significantly better (maybe with aniracetam).

[Duster]

Sorry if this thread is considered dead, but here's my 2 cents...

I got what I thought was "choline depression" as mentioned here and elsewhere on the forum when I was taking DMAE as a choline source. This actually went away when I switched to Alpha GPC. I also experienced legitimate insomnia when I took DMAE too late in the day, but I read elsewhere about its stimulating effects, so this made sense, I just tried not to take it too late. I can sleep on GPC, but I sympathize with the "inability to suspend conciousness," though I would extend it to an inability to stop myself from thinking in general. However, I always attributed this to the piracetam and my poor long-term focusing ability. If I (contradictory as it sounds) try hard to relax, meaning clear my head and keep it that way, I have no trouble falling asleep, the problem is just clearing my head in the first place. I believe this will become easier when I learn to focus better and am looking into meditation for this reason.

As for the Alpha GPC, I would vouch for its effectiveness, at least as a choline source. I mean, it could be CDP or some other thing, but I can say with relative confidence that it IS something that supplies choline, as I recently upped my dosage of piracetam and ani, both of which give me a pretty bad headache when taken without any choline. All in all, Mike seems legit, and unless I'm getting some killer placebo effects, I believe smartpowders.com is giving me what I order (Alpha GPC, Piracetam, Aniracetam, ALCAR).

The statement about not finding Piracetam is starting to seem rather ironic now that we're a couple months in the future lol

[NG_F]

I get my Racetams and cholines from Cerebral Health.They are excellent and have a wide selection and their products are pure and effective.Shipping is quick and I pay for the express priority so that I can track and see when it clears customs.

I purchased Oxiracetam,Aniracetam 2 kg's or Pir and alpha-GPC,Lions mane and Ashwaganda.

Edited by chrono, 18 October 2010 - 02:03 AM.
removed general vendor questions

[Nootropic_Novice]

Some good posts in that thread. A lot of the argument against its usefulness in treating AD is pretty sound. I'll note that the first review post suggests that alpha GPC doesn't increase choline or ACh levels, which it does [1] [2].

This is the idea that worries me. Enhancing the neurotoxic effect of ambyloid-β makes me nervous, though I'm not sure if it's a practical concern for the young and healthy.

Starting in the mid- to late-1990s, studies conducted using a number of techniques, including in vitro solution and membrane experiments, and NMR analyses of in vivo and postmortem brains, led several researchers to conclude that increased GPC concentrations may play a role in the deposition of the Abeta plaques observed in Alzheimer's brains, and the Abeta aggregates seen in CSF from AD patients. For example, in vitro studies on GPC and Abeta in solution and mixed with erythrocyte membranes showed that GPC changes the conformation of Abeta in solution or in membranes, enhancing its aggregation in solution, and enhancing its aggregation and accumulation in the phospholipid head-group region of membranes. Other phospholipid breakdown products do not have similar effects.

I couldn't find anything with an impatient pubmed search, but maybe I'll try some more when I find some time.

So to answer your question, not sure yet if there's an answer in the research. It's probably fine, at least for the short term. Is this the only choline precursor which gives you this cognitive enhancement? CDP choline might be worth trying, as well.

Hello, I know this topic was created in 2010, but I'm hoping its not closed.

I had some follow-up question in regards to this post - do you have the link to the pubmed article in regards to the amyloid-B aggregation in the presence of GPC? Given that its been about 2 years since the creation of this post, has there been anything new to report on Alpha GPC's safety?

I was doing some reading to find a mild nootropic & Alpha GPC came highly recommended. But I was worried if it did encourage amyloid-B aggregation in the brain, isn't that essentially encouraging the eventual onset of Alzheimer's ? (sorry I'm not too well versed in nootropics or AD).

[Peak Noots]

L-Alpha Glycerylphosphorylcholine is very safe and I think it is the best of the choline sources. CDP Choline and Centrophenoxine are also excellent Acetylcholine sources

[Major Legend]

I don't feel alpha GPC works purely as a choline source, completely subjectively - for me it has an odd emotional blunting, and an very nice effect removing irritability , which is unlike any other choline source i've taken, the other choline supplements i've taken like (various forms of Alcar, and Choline Bitartate, where the effects were mainly more awake, energetic, or slightly better recall). Alpha GPC feels more like a light drug, than a supplement.

On the other hand I've never responded to Citocholine at all, even on paper it seems like the superior choline source.

Edited by Major Legend, 31 March 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[mjp108]

I am 71, six foot, 212 pounds and in excellent physical condition and I have just started a Nortropic regimen with 800 mg
of Phenylpiracetam daily. I am very pleased with the increased energy bump it has delivered. However, I was looking for
memory retention and recall improvemenrt. Trying to move in that direction I have started stacking with Alpha GPC. I
started adding with 300 mg. Did not notice anything and am now doing 600 mg daily with the Phenylpiracetam and am still
not feeling any difference.

My question is what is an appropriate trial period before increasing dosage? In taking this should I feel any difference? If yes what may I expect? Given my objective is there something else I should try for memory retention and recall?

Mike