* BJKlein Official Chat Starts Now - Max More
<BJKlein> Thanks for joining us Dr More
<MaxMore> Thanks, BJ
<MaxMore> Glad to be here
<BJKlein> I have questions...
<MaxMore> with others who aren't really all that keen on rotting and perishing
<MaxMore> I MAY have answers...
<MaxMore> fire away
<BJKlein> Yes you are among fellow immortalists
<BJKlein> would a heat death preclude all our efforts?
<MaxMore> No
<BJKlein> good answer!
<MaxMore> If there is a heat death, for one thing
<MaxMore> it's an awfully long way off
<MaxMore> It would, of course , make literal immortality impossible
<hkhenson> even by our standards. :-)
<MaxMore> but I think we can worry more about that issue in a few trillions years
<MaxMore> Hey Keith!
<BJKlein> thus, you offer another type of immortality scenario?
<MaxMore> Yes,
<hkhenson> hi max, been ages.
<MaxMore> But not by our standards!
<MaxMore> :-)
<MaxMore> The term "immortality" is one that I usually avoid
<hkhenson> heh heh
<MaxMore> because it can imply a view that you're *unkillable*
<Coyote> what do you prefer.. a-mortal?
<MaxMore> or that you think you will definitely live literally FOREVER
<MaxMore> It's a bit awkward
<BJKlein> do you have better suggestions?
<MaxMore> Usually: Ageless,
<MaxMore> or superlongevity
<John_Ventureville> how about "indefinite lifespan?"
<MaxMore> yes
* BJKlein nods
<MaxMore> that works too
<MaxMore> I like to emphasize that what I seek
<BJKlein> but not infinte lifespans?
<mporter> there are already a few people with indefinite ages
<MaxMore> is the freedom (from nature and those people who would control our research)
<MaxMore> to live as long as I choose
<MaxMore> and the same freedom for all who want it.
<BJKlein> thus.. this brings up the oblivion question..
<MaxMore> We all have indefinite age in a way
<MaxMore> Counting from exit from the womb is only one way
<MaxMore> An excuse to have two (or more) birthday parties...
<BJKlein> if not truely infinite lifespan.. does this perhaps suggest you open the door to death eventually
<MaxMore> is to count from the time of, say, formation of the cortex
<MaxMore> as well as birth
<MaxMore> Well, I don't myself opening that door
<MaxMore> but it may be opened for me and I may get shoved through
<MaxMore> But I'll do my best to avoid that.
<BJKlein> hmm.. i'll help you as well
<MaxMore> First through current means of preventive health
<MaxMore> then biological superlongevity
<MaxMore> then personality backup
<MaxMore> and so on
<BJKlein> agreed..
<BJKlein> This is sorta off the wall.. but have you looked at Wolfram's Rule 30 yet?
<MaxMore> NO
<BJKlein> where there seems to be inherent chaos
<BJKlein> within even simple deterministic systems
<BJKlein> thus resurections may be impossible.. = Tipler
<John_Ventureville> Max, the Cryofeast is going on tonight at the Creekside Lodge
<John_Ventureville> and people want to say hello to you!
<BJKlein> do you subscribe to Tipler's idea of resurections perhaps?
<John_Ventureville> : )
<MaxMore> I haven't read the rule, so don't feel competent to comment
<John_Ventureville> I will be taking on "multiple personalities"
<John_Ventureville> here we go
<mporter> chaotic or not, the real issue would be information loss
<hkhenson> bj, I wrote about the difficulty of that in one of my last columns in the cryoncis magazine.
<MaxMore> except to say that, according to my view of personal identity
<John_Ventureville> hi, Max... Tanya here
<MaxMore> the "resurrection" or reinstantiation need not be perfect
<BJKlein> keth, this would be interesting to read
<hkhenson> yo tanya!
<MaxMore> Hello Tanya
<hkhenson> I might be able to find it. just a sec.
<John_Ventureville> Not sure what's going on in this room, and don't wish to interrupt, but wanted to say hi to you and the lady
<MaxMore> Message received
<MaxMore> I don't think we're the same exactly from day to day
<BJKlein> Welcome Tanya.. feel free to stay
<MaxMore> so a new version of me with imperfect fidelity could be okay
<BJKlein> Dicronious self
<BJKlein> (sp?)
<MaxMore> if the imperfection wasn't too bad
<John_Ventureville> hi Keith!
<MaxMore> and primarily affected non-core parts of the self
<MaxMore> Diachronic
<BJKlein> thanks
<localroger> Our own bodies don't do a very good job of keeping us the same from day to day.
<MaxMore> Bruce is referring to my Ph.D. dissertation on personal identity
<MaxMore> which might be fun (really!) reading for immortalists
<BJKlein>
http://www.maxmore.com/disscont.htm<BJKlein> highly recommended
<BJKlein> Max, did you per chance see Martin Rees' reply to the idea of physical immortality?
<MaxMore> One chapter is devoted to figuring out exactly what death is
<MaxMore> I looked at it briefly
<MaxMore> I think he said something that I've grown tired of hearing
<MaxMore> If I remember correctly
<MaxMore> He made the "will drain life of meaning" point
<BJKlein> yes.. that his self can not be preserved over time..
<BJKlein> that too..
<MaxMore> Did he also make the point that if he lived long enough, it would be him anymore?
<BJKlein> right
<MaxMore> Nonsenses
<localroger> Well that's just life. The "self" that I am here is certainly different from the "self" that I was when I was 17, but I'm not "dead."
<MaxMore> or nonsense even
<BJKlein> "We should see ourselves -- and, indeed, all humans -- as just a phase"
<MaxMore> we are a verb, not a noun, as Fuller put it
<kzzch> True, but the 'self' that was 'you' at 17 is dead, I would argue.
<BJKlein> a system flowing.. yes
<MaxMore> Who the heck wants to live as an unchanging thing?
<localroger> Or as I once wrote, life is a process, not a result.
<MaxMore> THAT would be boring
<MaxMore> right
<MaxMore> However, for identity, the process has to maintain some degree of continuity
<BJKlein> just seems that if the heat death is true.. we're all for not..
<BJKlein> sorry to rehash
<MaxMore> Why all for nought?
<MaxMore> Does the value of every experience, action, and achievement
<kzzch> Why not worry about that when the time comes, Bruce?
<BJKlein> because there is no afterlife
<MaxMore> depend on its existence at some future time?
<BJKlein> because this is an important idea..
<localroger> Well BJK the dinosaurs had a good run, I'd like to see us at least /try/ to do as well. Meanwhile, just because your game on the ps/2 always ends with you getting killed, would you consider it meaningless to play?
<Coyote> BJKlein: we have a very long time to work that one out, let's you and I get there first than worry about it ok?
<MaxMore> Yes, priorities!
* BJKlein crouches
<kzzch> We can discuss it over coctails at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.
<MaxMore> Better make reservations soon
<MaxMore> There's also the possibilitiy
<kzzch> I hear they booked one of the rooms for the party on the other side of the universe or whatever it is they call it.
<MaxMore> that we might be able to spawn entirely new universes
<BJKlein> there we go Max
<MaxMore> or "pocket universes"
<kzzch> a 'la Permutation City?
<MaxMore> That might not be a viable option for a very long time
<kzzch> or Diaspora?
<MaxMore> which is why we shouldn't worry about it TOO much right now
<MaxMore> We can't see all the possibilities now
<MaxMore> No
* BJKlein stops worring (a little)
<MaxMore> not like Permutation City
<MaxMore> Which was based in information theory rather than physics, as I recall
<kzzch> (been a while since i read it)
<MaxMore> Nifty book
<kzzch> Heh, the two are becoming blurred a bit, if you ask me, what with the holographic universe theory etc...
<MaxMore> I doubt the science was real, but it was a good facsimile
<MaxMore> There's also the Tipler view, or something like it
<MaxMore> Even if the universe comes to an end
<kzzch> Hmm, is that the one with the Omega Point?
<MaxMore> maybe it can be infinite subjectively
<BJKlein> yeah.. i think tipler omega point has been refruited as far as i can tell
<BJKlein> it relied on a big crunch
<MaxMore> by slowing our relative experience
<MaxMore> True
<kzzch> Egan hit on that idea with The Planck Dive, I think...
<MaxMore> And I think the evidence is current leaning against that
<MaxMore> Freeman Dyson has a scheme for the opposite scenario
<kzzch> Been over a year since I read any of this stuff.
<BJKlein> expanding faster and faster
<BJKlein> thus 'heat death' - scream!
<BJKlein> sorry.. i'm trying to stop that
<MaxMore> Should be "cold death" really
<mporter> with string theory, you could have expansion of a braneworld, but still have the hyperspace it lives in headed for a big crunch... there's a lot of possibilities in cosmology right now
<MaxMore> the Tipler scenario is more like heat death
<MaxMore> And perhaps many more to come
<hkhenson> sigh. I tried to get dyson to consider cryonics.
<MaxMore> which I why not to worry about it too much
<MaxMore> when our CURRENT mortality issues are so pressing
<Coyote> exactly
<MaxMore> Surprised he didn't go for it
<hkhenson> he had considered and rejected it.
<BJKlein> "heat death" - 14,500 hits
<BJKlein> "cold death" - 6,250 hits
<BJKlein> google
<MaxMore> Issues like: How do we boost funding for promising superlongevity research?
<mporter> perhaps you could argue that rejuvenation, rather than immortality, is the appropriate short-term goal
<MaxMore> And: How do we stop Leon Kass and his kind from holding us back
<MaxMore> maybe just long enough that we're dead
<kzzch> assassination politics
<hkhenson> wassail eliezer
<BJKlein> Max, I suspect Leon can be a gift in many ways
<MaxMore> "If you strike me down, I shall rise up again, stronger than ever"
<MaxMore> could be
<BJKlein> He is bringing legitimacy to the idea of physical immortality
<localroger> Max, maybe we could start by totally re-arranging our governmental system to one that doesn't put profit and money above the interests of individual citizens. Of course that would involve a messy and death-risky endeavour called "revolution."
<MaxMore> Raises the debate to a new public level
<MaxMore> Yes
<MaxMore> and to enhancement issues
<hkhenson> we could grab him and capture bond him to immortalists
<MaxMore> The Summit we're working on will address Kass and similar
<hkhenson> :-)
<kzzch> Shirley has some interesting ideas on that.
* BJKlein actually had a reply email from Leon
<MaxMore> John S?
<MaxMore> Really?
<kzzch> Yeah, city come a walkin' shirley
<BJKlein> He didn't say much.. except he didn't have time for the ImmInst Book Project
<MaxMore> "Go to hell, you lousy lifer? :-)
<Coyote> BJKlein: hopefully he doesnt have time for anything at all
<MaxMore> The intriguing thing is that superlongevists/immortalitsts have natural allies
<kzzch> i think the gist of it was we institute some sort of social cost for behavior like that. we shun them.
<BJKlein> needless to say I made a couple of follow ups.. as I'd like to skillfully ask him to join us for the "Why Die?" conference in Atlanta Oct 2005
<MaxMore> in groups like the Christopher Reeve Foundation
<hkhenson> raising our own efficiency would be helpful
<MaxMore> and others who desperately need advances in the biosciences
<kzzch>
http://www.darkecho....y/jssocfu1.html<BJKlein> death sucks.. pretty easy sell.. you'd think
<MaxMore> Shunning won't do it when you have the ear of the President
<BJKlein> but, it takes packaging
<kzzch> there's the first of his three essay's on business ethics.
<bdc> the science will be developed.... who really cares if it's legal to use it on yourself?
<localroger> What miracles might we have seen by now if every paraplegic had the therapies available that have been available for Chris Reeeve?
<hkhenson> can reeve walk yet? the answer is not much.
<BJKlein> you need any ideas for you book Max?
<MaxMore> Not as impressive as if the research he's pushng makes breakthroughs
<BJKlein> feel free to data mine our minds here
<MaxMore> But he can breathe
<localroger> No, but he actually has feeling in his extremeties, which the textbooks say is *impossible.*
<MaxMore> NO NO NO!
<MaxMore> Too many ideas!
<BJKlein> heh.. to many ideas eh?
<kzzch> So Max, have you abandoned the concept of Deep Anarchy then?
<MaxMore> I feel my extremity regularly -- it's good for ya!
<BJKlein> you need researchers then?
<MaxMore> Yes, my problem is always focusing down
<BJKlein> same here
<MaxMore> My dissertation tool a long time for that reason
<localroger> Well Max most of us do, but then we didn't get thrown off a horse and have our necks broken.
<hkhenson> max, there is an area that sheds light on a whacking lot of problems
<BJKlein> we need more effective medium than text
<MaxMore> The final product was maybe a tenth of what I wanted to cover
<BJKlein> we need to branch to video and voice more perhaps
<MaxMore> Yes, though books still have major advantages
<Coyote> (I'll help)
<localroger> OTOH my experience is that if you can't make your point in text, you don't have a point.
<BJKlein> good point localroger
<MaxMore> It does focus the mind.
<hkhenson> namely evolutionary psychology. it is a hell of an intellectual solvent for human problems, esp those involving groups.
<MaxMore> As does interviewing for TV
<MaxMore> since they love ideas presented in brief, cogent, bite-sized chunks
<BJKlein> great job on CNN last year or so Max
<MaxMore> Which most scientists cannot do
<MaxMore> Thanks
<MaxMore> though I wasn't happy with my performance
<localroger> Henson, ev psych is a double-edged sword. Yes it's a useful solvent -- good metaphor -- but on the same metaphor, you don't get results unless you can get a precipitate out of the solution.
<BJKlein> yes, i'm seening a great need for more Randy Wickers
<hkhenson> I understand what happened to Elizabeth Smart and Patty Hearst now.
<MaxMore> Keith, I'm not so convinced about ev psychology
<MaxMore> Cognitive and behavioral psychology seem more practical
<localroger> Only now? Henson, I thought you knew what happened to Hearst and Smart practically before they were abducted :-)
<hkhenson> hmm
<MaxMore> But then I've looked at them much more
<hkhenson> that's the same thing under a slightly different view max
<MaxMore> Not according to what I've seen.
<BJKlein> EP has really helped me
<MaxMore> Though they SHOULD have some connection
<BJKlein> Geoffrey Miller is good
<MaxMore> since evolutions sets the basic wiring
<BJKlein> Mating Mind
<hkhenson> they are connected, have you read pascal boyer's book religion explained?
<MaxMore> There are some fascinating applications such as in behavioral finance
<localroger> The basic wiring is extremely flexible, unless you are horribly deformed.
<MaxMore> and management theory
<MaxMore> and marketing
<hkhenson> he is cog sci but uses EP all over the place
<MaxMore> I have a copy of the Adapted Mind that I have to find time to read
<MaxMore> Haven't read the Boyer book.
<MaxMore> We might apply some of the newer stuff to spreading our ideas
<hkhenson> have you read my relatively short article "sex drugs and cults"?
<MaxMore> Marketers are starting to learn that focus groups don't work, in most cases
<MaxMore> There are better methods.
<BJKlein> interesting max
<BJKlein> sampling perhaps
<MaxMore> Which we might apply to figure out people's resistance and how best to overcome it
<EmilG> MaxMore: Just read the big Tooby and Cosmides paper, if you don't bother to read the rest of the book.
<BJKlein> test marketing in areas
<MaxMore> "psychomarketing" and "neuroeconomics" on Google will produce some hits
<hkhenson> heh. I ahve a serious bone to pick with tooby
<MaxMore> Deep structured interviews
<kzzch> network marketing? p2p salesmanship.
<MaxMore> EmilG, thanks for the tip. Making a note now...
<hkhenson> he figure out capture-bonding and the evolutionary reason for it clear back about 1980
<kzzch> Somewhat akin to what Gibson touched on in Pattern Re:Cognition?
<hkhenson> but he never published!!!
<MaxMore> Is that Gibson in perceptual theory?
<kzzch> ?
<MaxMore> Probably not
<BJKlein> question max..
<BJKlein> considering the mission of imminst
<MaxMore> Metaphor elicitation techniques are another way of getting info out of people's heads that they didn't know they had
<BJKlein> conquer the blight of involuntary death..
<MaxMore> Could be revealing about perceptions of superlongevity
<BJKlein> what advice would you give to help us reach this mission
<BJKlein> considering we have more than 1000 basic members and nearly 60 full members
<BJKlein> we don't want to die..
<BJKlein> what should we do
<MaxMore> How to stop it, in total?
<MaxMore> I wouldn't want to give an answer that pretends to be complete
<BJKlein> of course.. all in small parts..
<MaxMore> Different types of person with varying aptitudes and attitudes should do different things
<BJKlein> perhaps i can tear off one or two ideas
<MaxMore> Any insistence on the "one right way" is a problem
<MaxMore> Sure
<BJKlein> we have an idea for a conference in 2005
<BJKlein> you have had great success there
<MaxMore> Elements I would include: Push basic biological research, tissue regeneration,
<BJKlein> is this a good idea for us to reach our mission?
<MaxMore> adopt personal and available current means
<BJKlein> a this a good investment?
<Utnapishtim> For whatever reason I have run into an awful lot of extropian types whose mainstream communication skills are severely below par
<MaxMore> <thinking>
<MaxMore> Depends on how you frame the conference
<Utnapishtim> and I think this is a problem. I see some quite incredible naivety on how to best propogate these ideas
<BJKlein>
http://imminst.org/conference/<BJKlein> not much info there..
<MaxMore> These days, I think we need to do more than get people together to talk about the things of interest
<BJKlein> but should give a feel
<MaxMore> Will check it out
<hkhenson> heh
<John_Ventureville> transhumanist activism?
<hkhenson> try to make it in canada so I can come.
<Utnapishtim> hey John
<kzzch> Speaking of which, what happened to Pro-Act
<MaxMore> Okay, debate is definitely good
<BJKlein> hence, Leon vs..
<MaxMore> Focusing the debates and issues is tricky
<BJKlein> perhaps Author Caplan = my dream
<MaxMore> Pro-Act is feeding into the Summit for 2004
<John_Ventureville> I wonder if I will ever see transhumanists/cryonicists as actively engaged as we often see environmentalists?
<MaxMore> Caplan's usually good, but wrote something I didn't like at all
<MaxMore> in his MSNBC column
<BJKlein> heh.. he seems to have this effect
<MaxMore> but can't remember what it was right now.
<BJKlein> and he's not an immortalists as well..
<MaxMore> something of interest to transhumanists though
<MaxMore> I LOVED his piece on Kass
<BJKlein> but his pro-longevity answer is brilliant
<Utnapishtim> John: Environmentalists know how to reach out to the mainstream and communicate them in an emotionally engaging way
<BJKlein> yes...
<MaxMore> "The Council of Clones"
<bdc> Max, is there any specific area of biology research, or even drug development, that you think holds the most promise?
<BJKlein> ahh, havent read it.. i was thinking "Mr Yuck"
<John_Ventureville> Utnap: right
<MaxMore> On research, I'm a bit behind on the most recent developments
<kzzch> TechTv interviews a lot of interesting people within the purvies of >Hism.
<MaxMore> but I do like the mouse prize
<BJKlein> Mr Yuck (Caplan)
http://imminst.org/f...=69&t=1968&st=0<MaxMore> and hope that Cynthia Kenyon and Len Guarantee's work comes off
<kzzch> s/purvies/purview
<MaxMore> I think it would help to have better biological system modeling
<BJKlein> 6x average lifespan in worms = not bad
<MaxMore> such as IBM is working hard on
<MaxMore> reason bless 'em
<BJKlein> yeas.. Reason is amazingly helpful
<John_Ventureville> I see prominent transhumanists like Max fighting the good fight, but I think there needs to be more rank and file grassroots activism.
<BJKlein> a total machine
<kzzch> Someone just needs to write a Silent Spring type work regarding the >Hist movement.
<MaxMore> Proteomics might turn out to be useful too, since knowing the genes doesn't seem to get us far
<BJKlein> Alexander, Brian did a pretty good job with Rapture
<Utnapishtim> There also needs to be a more concerted attemot to target the message toward the sensibilities of the audience
<MaxMore> One of the products we'd like out of the Summit...
<MaxMore> would be a media action kit
<hkhenson> bj, did you see my comment about how to win the mathusala mouse prize?
<kzzch> If you don't extend your lifespan, little birdies will die!
<MaxMore> that anyone could use to get the word out and also pressure politicians
<MaxMore> No, Keith
<BJKlein> yes.. the different type of mouse
<hkhenson> naked mole rats live 20 years, far in excess of any other rodents
<Utnapishtim> How to discuss these ideas in an A) Nonthreatening B) Entertaining and C) Informative way
<MaxMore> Are there any limits on which mice are relevant to the prize?
<hkhenson> do enough gene shifting to get mice to live that long
<MaxMore> Certainly the short-lived ones used in many experiments aren't as interesting to extent
<BJKlein> yes.. only one type of mouse for MMP
<MaxMore> Some really good pro-superlongevity movies would help
<MaxMore> They've all been negative
<hkhenson> but you can mess with their genes I presume?
<BJKlein> Max, ImmInst has ideas for a independent film...
<Coyote> well we need a script...
<MaxMore> Yes?
<John_Ventureville> wow!
<John_Ventureville> what kind of a budget will you have?
<BJKlein> ahh, really early early stage..
<MaxMore> Does it require a big budget?
<Coyote> nope
<BJKlein> sorry to get hopes up here..
<hkhenson> hard to do anything for less than half a million
<kzzch> Someone needs to do a Time Enough For Love movie. Take out the incest, and you'll hook everyone.
<BJKlein> we're cultivating the right people..
<John_Ventureville> the Venturists have hopes for a film
<Coyote> requires much volunterism and a small budget
<MaxMore> Geez, no, keep in the incest!
<BJKlein> heh
<MaxMore> Increases the controversy and interest
<kzzch> Heh, we're trying to be A) Nonthreatening.
<MaxMore> Maybe get it banned in a few places. :-)
<kzzch> Incest is a whole 'nother Shock Level.
<kzzch> Good point, if it's banned, more people will want to watch it.
<John_Ventureville> I bet you could do garage/indie filming for under fifty grand
<Coyote> hkhenson: only if its film, vid can be done very cheaply and well
* BJKlein chuckle -
<MaxMore> Not sure Time Enough would make a good moive
<hkhenson> consider "faces of death" cost next to nothing
<MaxMore> movie
<MaxMore> though some bits of it might
<hkhenson> made a ton of money in video
<MaxMore> the dead actors were dead cheap
<kzzch> I'll play Laz Long if Nat Portman plays his Mother.
<Coyote> anyone have a script?
<BJKlein> well, we're coming up on 1hr
<kzzch> *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*
<BJKlein> Max feel free to stick around..
<BJKlein> but Official chat will end soon
<MaxMore> Alas, I have to get up at 5:30 to travel, and haven't packed yet...
<BJKlein> Thanks much for joining us..
<hkhenson> ick, well best of luck max.
<MaxMore> My pleasure. Not leaving just yet though
<kzzch> Indeed, rather stimulating chat that was.
<John_Ventureville> it was very cool having you here
<MaxMore> I was late, so must give money's worth!
<BJKlein> expensive chat.. i tell ya!
<John_Ventureville> if you don't leave now it will be very anticlimactic!
<John_Ventureville> lol
<hkhenson> just wondered if you might talk a bit about transhumanist politics?
<MaxMore> Well, okay, but any last questions? Challenges?
<hkhenson> with ref to EP of course.
<kzzch> Yeah.
<MaxMore> Sorry, Keith, but no
<hkhenson> people do absolutely insane things for status.
<hkhenson> as we all know.
<MaxMore> big issue, little time
<MaxMore> Yes
<hkhenson> ep really helps to understand why.
<MaxMore> A problem in our community
<BJKlein> max.. have you given much thought to existential risks as a threat to immortalism for your book perhaps?
<John_Ventureville> Max, what do you see in the way of mobilizing the rank and file transhumanists out there to really affect change in the world?
<kzzch> I was wondering myself, a lot of Extro types seem to be libertarians, but that doesn't seem to sit well with the concept of Deep Anarchy... er, never mind.
<hkhenson> a problem with communities generally.
<MaxMore> ooh, lots of questions
<BJKlein> sorry
<kzzch> (You asked for it
)
<MaxMore> Bruce, could you explain "existential risks" a bit?
<BJKlein> cosmic, ai, gray goo..
<John_Ventureville> *way of methods to mobilize*
<BJKlein> big stuff
<hkhenson> killer asteroids too
<BJKlein> right..
<FutureQ> Am I too late?
<kzzch> nooklear war
<MaxMore> John: I think our effort with the Summit will partly answer that -- it will be highly collaborative
<hkhenson> you just do the best you can bj
<kzzch> bioterrorism
<Coyote>
http://www.nickbostr...tial/risks.html<BJKlein> most of the stuff we don't think about in daily life
<kzzch> religious fundamentalism
<John_Ventureville> Max, sounds good
<hkhenson> insane cults like scientology . . . .
<kzzch> hell, fundamentalism in general
<MaxMore> Bruce, I'm not sure if I will dig into those particular issues. Possibly..
<MaxMore> I'm not going to deal with a large number of issues but rather provide tools for thought
<hkhenson> not a whole lot you can do about them.
<MaxMore> But those could be good for the last chapter.
<John_Ventureville> Max, please tell us a little bit about this upcoming summit (please forgive me if this was already discussed).
<BJKlein> k.. seems like risk avoidance will be quite important for life extension.. but perhaps your book has narrowed out such topics
<MaxMore> Okay, thanks for the last barrage!
<Coyote> again, lets avoid heart attack stroke cancer aging...
<hkhenson> bj, not at all.
* BJKlein Official Chat Ends
<MaxMore> I'm really going to have to get packing, literally
<hkhenson> risk taking is part of life.
<MaxMore> Thanks, Bruce, and everyone.
<hkhenson> you have to do it.
<MaxMore> It was fun.
<John_Ventureville> take care
<BJKlein> take care!
