41 replies to this topic

[golden1]

Low dose ketamine seems really benign for the positive effects that seem rather well researched and demonstrated. Of course this information started coming out years ago. Drugs aren't out to get you, a simple way would be to just limit the small amount you manage to find and promise yourself not to buy more. Not really too hard of a task since I didn't find ketamine addicting even at recreational doses(maybe I would want to use it again, but once I ran out I had no urge or anything to go out and get more. which tells me, for me at least, it was simply enjoyable/very interesting and I like enjoyable things, not that I was ever using it as an escape.)
HOWEVER as an IMPORTANT counterpoint, depressed people are much much more liable to keep using something like ketamine because of it's ability to numb you to the outside world, which is exactly what they are having problems with. So, yes while I believe ketamine is relatively harmless for someone else it could easily be a trap(however it you kept it to low doses and spaced it appropriately... I suppose if you trusted .yourself to do this, then I could see it being useful as given the research and my own experience even though I am not depressed, it made me feel much nicer about life for days afterwards... can't say it lasted very long, but I am not depressed nor was I using it like an anti-depressant.)

I hope this comes off as a non-bias assessment because I'd rather not be seen as Mr. Drug pusher...hahaaa.

Edited by golden1, 05 October 2012 - 03:40 PM.

[Raza]

Ketamine can be very escape-y, once you start K-holing. It's a unique state of being - like a whole other dimension of yourself - and after repeat visitations some people start finding it more manageable/pleasant than 'real' life. Also, the switch from one state to the other can feel threatening either way, which is another reason some people get into compulsive redosing.

That's no reason to be 'against' it or anything silly like that, it's just something to be aware of. Non-hole doses don't really bring this temptation, I think, so there's a lot of room for therapeutic use without it ever coming into play.

Edited by Raza, 05 October 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[nowayout]

This is very interesting. There is a supposedly very effective therapy for chronic pain syndromes called "ketamine coma reset". There was an episode of House based on it.

[CIMN]

Enhancing synaptogenesis:

http://www.frontiers...2010.00147/full

Edited by CIMN, 06 October 2012 - 12:45 AM.

[umop 3pisdn]

Ketamine is the most addictive drug for me. It has a sort of mystical and apophenic quality to it which makes it dangerous for my temperament. You often suddenly feel as if you understand everything, there are all of these mystical connections that are being made, it feels like this is where I was meant to be, that this is just a natural state that I forgot about, like I'm getting closer to my past lives, and seeing more of what the future has, that I'm reaching some nebulous sense of greater potential and transcending the mundane, touching on the the styles of all the mythic narratives, stories, and archetypes that I've absorbed throughout my life, that I'm being initiated into some greater mystery normally so remote. Before taking refuge in Buddhism I was basically a free-wheeling mystic and this was ridiculously enticing as an escape for me. I've never been truly addicted to anything before but there was a period of about a month where I was dosing usually multiple times a day, every day, for a whole month. Granted, again, I think that had everything to do with my temperament, and this has little to do with the wider topic being discussed. Also the quality of the experience varies quite a bit depending on the dose, threshold doses did not hold this kind of appeal for me. Still, for some people it's an experience that promises more than it can ever deliver. Even assuming tolerance never becomes an issue, the 'unconscious' has no boundaries, you can walk in a straight line your whole life and never reach the thing in the horizon beaconing to you, you'll die with that promise left unfulfilled, which is why I found it to be so personally 'dangerous'.

[medievil]

As ive often said before, therapeutic addictive drugs should be administired with naltrexone, works like a charm to stop alcohol addicts taking more g after they got it prescribed.

Besides that, kinda related i was way better of with my amp addiction then without, without it i was severely anhedonic thats like being death, everything is better then that.

[CaptainFuture]

Thanks for all the shared experience. I don't think, that high doses of Ketamine are necessary to reach a therapeutic effect. Maybe low-dose-ketamine would be a way to go, like with LDN. Dextromethorphan is available without prescription and has some of the effects of Ketamine but very low half-life. I checked some pipelines but most compounds haven't reached phase I, so they are still likely to fail.

@umop: You said, that you suddenly did understand everything. Do you think, that this had to do with synaptogenesis?

[nupi]

I never had K, but I will avoid recreational DXM like the plague (I've even been known to refuse taking DXM containing cough medication at times), even at moderate doses it consistently gave me creepy states of mind not appealing in any way and most definitely not mystical.

Plus there are quite a number of anecdotal reports where it truly screwed up people for long stretches of time (some are even in this very forum).

[CIMN]

Enhancing synaptogenesis:

http://www.frontiers...2010.00147/full

heres a couple products that could be worth a try:
phosphatides: could be combined with uridine, ashwagandha which helps synapse formation
and ginseng.

http://www.lef.org/V...s-de-oiled.html
http://www.amazon.co...l/dp/B000Q464V4

http://web.williams..../pages/IIA2.htm
calmodulin activates protein kinase II, which phosphorylates Synapsin.

Edited by CIMN, 10 November 2012 - 01:47 PM.

[Raza]

Thanks for all the shared experience. I don't think, that high doses of Ketamine are necessary to reach a therapeutic effect. Maybe low-dose-ketamine would be a way to go, like with LDN. Dextromethorphan is available without prescription and has some of the effects of Ketamine but very low half-life. I checked some pipelines but most compounds haven't reached phase I, so they are still likely to fail.

@umop: You said, that you suddenly did understand everything. Do you think, that this had to do with synaptogenesis?

I'm not umop but I can relate to his experience.

No, I don't think so. In a K-hole, you pretty much (temporarily) forget everything you know, then revisit your framework of belief/memory/understanding of the world one node at a time as you travel across it one association to the next. It's exhilerating and comes with a strong sensation of re-discovery (truly new insights are the exception rather than the rule), and lasting improved comfort/motivation with regards to 're-discovered' memory, but I think it's just what your mind defaults your attention to when cut off from the real world. It might kindof-sortof accompany the synapses being rebuild, but other than the sensation of improved mood there isn't much to connect them, so I'd say it's a stretch... I doubt your single spec of perception traveling your frame of reference one node at a time could keep up with brain-wide synaptogenesis, too, if synaptogenesis even does make old memories and beliefs more accessible.

Edited by Raza, 13 November 2012 - 08:47 PM.

[opusensemble]

Has anyone heard about this, and know if they are trustworthy? http://anonshop.net/...als and Powders ?

[Justchill]

Hi, has anybody got experiences with low dose 3-meo-pcp as an alternative to ketamine?