186 replies to this topic

[FortFun]

What a joke blaming the FDA for trying to insure vendors like smartpowders don't flaunt the law with false claims trying to sell product that is potentially very dangerous given no attempt by the vendor to verify product safety in any sort of methodical or even statistical way. Mike M, you said in this thread you make $3 for every $15 you sell. You stated you had 10k kg in stock (and more on the way) that is now basically gone. That's $60k profit min in the last week or so since you announced the mythical ban. We all appreciate your contribution to the nootropic community, I guess $20k profit with $40k in legal fees was not enough for you, it had to be $60k all for you! Our lives are a small factor in your equations, we know. At least be honest, you're not worried about $40k in legal fees (like it would take that to remove your false labeling claims), you're worried that the FDA is coming for the rest of your supplement business. Much better to say you no longer sell piractem, just like the other products listed in the warning letter that you no longer sell.

That doesn't even consider the other 34k kg from your last shipment that you sold before the FDA crackdown on your operation at probably much more than $3 profit per 1/2 kg. Even at your wholesale $3 per 1/2 kg that was $204,000 profit you already pocketed from your last shipment alone.

You fool can fool some people here, fine. I have done more than anyone to point out what a fraud you and your operation appear to be. You can accuse me all you want. You can get naive 'moderators' like chrono to buy your bs even when facts say otherwise.

But the ONLY thing someone can question is why I personally have gone out of my way to point out your shady business practices. No one can dispute the facts I presented a year ago or the facts I presented this last week since you lied about the FDA ban on piracetam.

Not one statement you have made about the piracetam ban has been verified by any evidence that you have presented. In fact the opposite is true. And presented with facts that dispute your claims you then resort to your well worn practices of attacking the messenger, playing dumb, and telling everyone that we should just believe you because your history on internet forums is beyond reproach. A little digging proves your reputation is about as shady as it gets in the shady business of supplement sales. Remember your boast that you would be the last person who should ever write a book on ethics?

I saw through your scamming tactics a year ago and I was VERY disappointed to see the imminst community allowing you to continue to post here today, especially in light of your marketing of a fictional FDA ban on piractem. I did more than my share to prove it. Those that want to question my motivation rather than facts are welcome to do so. They are probably the same types of people that you have made a lot of money off of in your internet forum marketing career.

If brokenportal wants to PM me and setup a call to review/verify my personal history and employment I would welcome it, just to prove the allegations of 'moderator' chrono and vendor smartpowders wrong. Of course that would never prove much of anything except maybe that I don't work directly for one of Mike M's competitors. As I have stated many times before, this is the internet. Don't trust me and don't trust vendors...VERIFY FACTS!!!! I may be wrong but I don't trust moderator 'chrono' as anything more than a shill based on his logic in posting defenses of smartpowders. This is my opinion only and I would welcome the idea that someday the facts say otherwise and he does more to protect the imminst community from disreputable vendors like Mike M / smartpowders.

So Smartpowders / mike M..

1) I see the warning letter you received is still not posted on the FDA website. For all we know it might never be. Can you please post the full letter now? I am especially interested in the standard language I quoted earlier that states it was not an all inclusive review of all your potential violations and that you need to insure that you don't violate the law further in other product labeling claims. You posting the full letter would help clear up whether or not you were lying in claiming that piracetam was the target of the investiation because none of the other ractems were listed in your letter. I'd also like to see exactly what they claimed would happen in 15 days.

2) Please post all documentation you received from the FDA with respect to the suprise inspection that you claimed happened this past tuesday. I'd like some verification you were not making that up. It makes sense that a suprise inspection happened given your false claims about an FDA ban but it is also a little suprising that they would do a suprise inspection before giving you 15 days to respond to your warning letter.

3)You have made multiple statements saying that you have had multiple piracetam products rejected at the border. Please provide proof of these products being rejected and returned to their country of origin.

4) You claimed that in addition to the 44k kg of piracetam that you received in your last shipment that you also additionaly bought up the last of the US supply of piracetam. Can you please provide COAs and heavy metal analysis of these additional supplies of piractam that you claimed you purchased. I'm sure you would not expect us to accept that the current 1.5 year old documentation of product safety would apply to your more recent acquistions of piractam from all available remaining sources.

I know, I'm a 'paranoid clown' and these requests are 'totally unreasonable' in your opinion. But since you are getting out of the piracetam business I request you do all of us here a favor and put your facts where your mouth claims they are.

Much obliged.
-fortfun

PS - And I will never ever claim that smartpowders / mike m is not without arrogance and a sense of humor!!! I mean pulling the 'Soulfireimage' account out from the depths of your excel spreadsheet of ghost accounts in order to defend you on this thread??? Nice one! I even laughed!

<SNIP>

So anyway, I guess 'moderator' chrono is okay with soulfireimage making his now 9th career imminst post....promoting Mike m /smartpowder in 6 of 9 of them and also promoting piracetam in 7 of 9 of those post. I didn't bother to google his 8th post. But me, facts aside, am not to be considered a viable contributor. Whatever. Like I said, ha ha Mike M, you're funny!

Yes I am pissed! I think too many people here have been hoodwinked. I did my civic duty and made what I think are worthwhile contributions to the imminst community by posting facts. I would not have wasted many hours of my life documenting these things if I was not pissed off.

This is my last post on this thread. Unlike Mike M you can really trust that it will be my last. I have nothing more to say.

Like the last time when I called Mike M /smartpowder out, all the facts will be buried as this thread becomes 20+ pages long instead of the 9 it is now. Most likely by him and his chronies.

But I can guarantee you this... Mike M / smartpowders will not go out of his way to post everything I have asked for in the 4 questions I asked here today...like any reputable vendor would and should! You will see at best...half answers, innuedos, and accusations...no complete and verifiable facts. Just sayin!

Cheers,
fortfun

Edited by chrono, 10 September 2010 - 08:28 AM.
off-topic user history

[chrono]

^^ Trimmed out a long section wherein FortFun provided a play-by-play analysis of another user's post history, since alone the section would have been the longest post in the thread, and it's not particularly salient to the topic at hand. A user posting a brief and not particularly glowing report about a business transaction does not make his entire post history on-topic discussion. If you want to provide an in-depth analysis of users with low post counts who have made more than one post about one of the most popular suppliers, do so in the Free Speech forum.

Your hostile tone and increasingly frequent disparagement of those you disagree with are making this conversation unnecessarily difficult. You've also made several antagonistic personal comments about Mike, as distinct from a criticism of his business practices. Neither of these will be tolerated further in this thread. If you want to criticize Smartpowders or my position on this matter, please do so in a less hostile way.

And as for your lurid allegations about my conduct, I'll confine myself to saying that if I'm defending Mike, it's because he's a user on this board, and as such is as deserving of respect and consideration as anyone else.

I am just surprised that if there was a ban, then why didn't the FDA say anything when they went through the Cerebral Health website so meticulously.

Indeed. I mentioned in the thread here from last winter that this was being done in a very strange way, and still seems to be. I don't doubt Mike's reports, but I'm wondering if the FDA will follow through with sending letters to the other retailers, or if they'll drop it after they've finished with him.

Can you tell us anything further about your intentions, should you receive a letter? Do you share Mike's opinion of the expense and improbability of success in fighting something like this?

Edited by chrono, 10 September 2010 - 09:46 AM.

[Humanescence]

@FF, I really appreciate the dedication you have at investigating Mike M business, When it come to health nothing is worst than fake testimonial and it can be very hard to detect.

You seams bring a lot of old stuff to this huge ad hominem, People can change / grow up over time, hopefully for the best.

I am very happy with SP bringing prices down but would like him to be more professional when responding, especially to QC inquiries.

Thanks again for raising the suspicion level, ,, Soulfireimage = obvious but off the "FDA + piracetam" subject.

[FortFun]

Humanesence, thanks I appreciate that. Sorry if I sound like I have been beating a dead horse. I have just tried to be factual and have tried to raise awareness of those that frequent here how easy it is to get snookered by snakeoil salesman.

I know I can bite with words but I really have a problem with vendors posting here with bluster and no facts. IMHO that is all the vendor in question has every done. I am especially disappointed when folks here buy the bluster without thinking about anything more than price. It is communities like this that have the power to demand and receive more from vendors. Again in my opinion, someone in Mike M's position could really set a postive tone for the supplement industry by using his position to drive standards and safety. Not flaunt and denigrate the FDA's efforts to improve the safety of consumers. I realy don't want to bring politics into this discussion but I am more than certain that the folks being empowered by the current administration are really trying to remove the riffraf from the supplement industry. If recent press releases are to be believed it is an across the board effort and big pharma is in the same crosshairs. If I am not mistaken medical marijuana is basically legal in a number of states and you don't see the federal DEA breaking down doors like they did only a couple years ago. I think this is progress and it is suredly not the overbearing government intrusion that vendors like Mike M claim in order to make sales. If someone wants to provide batch labeled and tested piracetam to the USA public it can be done, and not much more expensively than the current wholesale prices from Mike M. If a vendor really wants to!! Contray to some opinions here the ban on ephedra was 15 years in the making...publicly. And it probably never would have happened if shady supplement vendors had not milked ephedra for all it is worth by marketing it the way they did. Anyway...

I think it is pretty clear that Mike M does not give a damn about nootropics. Its a supplement market to him as long as it is profitable. The more we demand the less profitable it is. Hopefully the 'free market' will step in a deliver what we have not received. I really doubt some of the claims about this being a big pharma market ploy. Even if it is, given the expired patents, it will soon be cheaper than aspirin.

Maybe he will answer my 4 questions completely with something that can be verified. Most likely he won't. Each person here can then make there own decision.

Unless my recent posts get edited again I am done.

Night,
fortfun

Edited by FortFun, 10 September 2010 - 11:55 AM.

[Shepard]

I think this thread has run its course. No productive discussion has occurred in the last few pages. As has been said, each person can make their own decision based on prior discussion.

[Shepard]

Automatic generated messageThis topic has been closed by a moderator.Reason: Repetitive off-topic conversationIf you disagree with this action, please report this post, and a moderator or administrator will reconsider it.

[chrono]

[re-closed after cleaning out post queue]

As an addendum, the much-discussed letter was posted to the FDA site shortly after this thread was closed.

Edited by chrono, 18 October 2010 - 01:07 PM.
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