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The Classes of Smart drugs


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#1 pinballwizard

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 07:37 AM


I was just reading "Smart Drugs II" by Ward Dean, MD.
He alluded that there were 7 classes of smart drugs:

1. Vasodilators
2. Nootropics
3. Neurotransmitter modulator/replacements
4. Nerve growth factors
5. Essential Nutrients
6. Aluminum chelators
7. Miscellaneous substances (which included Phosphatidl serine, Acetyl-L-Carnitine and gangliosides.)

This opens a whole list of questions really.

1. What are the definititions of each class?
2. What are the best classes?
3. What are the best "smart drugs" in each category?
4. How do I have synergy with regard to the classes?

This is all on page 187, he says that Dr. C.G. Gottfries at the University of Gothenborg Sweden gave a lecture and a review on the classes.

Clearly this sparks some ideas. Don't be afraid to take a stab at it.
I would love to categorize all the items sold on the web to the various classes.

Nootropi, Scottl, throw me a bone here. I am probably getting 1,2, 5 and 7 but not 3, 4, and 6.

Thanks so much in advance,

Pinballwizard

#2 scottl

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 07:47 AM

Search through the posts by life mirage (his regimen) and you'll find his list...well and old version...by his categorization...


Perhaps this is a start:

---Vasodilatation: ginko (weak), vinpoctine, picamillon

---Increasing acetyl choline (e.g. memory and needed if you'll be taking a racetam)
-----Choline source: Alpha GPC or CDP choline
-----ACHe inhibitors: Huperzine A, Galantamine...rx drug (??aricept)

Not sure where the racetams fall: piracetam. Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, Pramiracetam (pram is for now expensive and hard to get)

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#3 pinballwizard

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 08:16 AM

Search through the posts by life mirage (his regimen) and you'll find his list...well and old version...by his categorization...


Perhaps this is a start:

---Vasodilatation: ginko (weak), vinpoctine, picamillon

---Increasing acetyl choline (e.g. memory and needed if you'll be taking a racetam)
-----Choline source: Alpha GPC or CDP choline
-----ACHe inhibitors: Huperzine A, Galantamine...rx drug (??aricept)

Not sure where the racetams fall: piracetam. Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, Pramiracetam (pram is for now expensive and hard to get)


Yeah, it is a start. Thanks for the leads from life mirage.

thanks,

Pinball

#4 nootropi

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 12:28 PM

Really quick:

increase in NGF:

nicergoline

#5 unipolar_mania

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 12:41 PM

I might tell my aged rat about that.

#6 nootropi

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 12:59 PM

I might tell my aged rat about that.


You are apparently uneducated with respect to scientific research. We can draw several conclusions about the mechanism of a drug through its effect(s) on rats. Apparently this is news to you. 99% of new drugs are first tested on rats before other animals; and in over 90% of the cases the mechanisms are consistent and carry over to human subjects.

I am sorry, I do not have time to explain, I have work to do.

Bye.

#7 pinballwizard

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Posted 13 October 2004 - 11:17 AM

I just made a list of 50 drugs with their classes and specifics, but the site wont let me upload the 50 kb .gif images or the excel spreadsheet. I wonder what the problem is?

Pinball

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Posted 13 October 2004 - 11:30 AM

Not sure, try uploading in another picture format?

#9 nootropi

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Posted 13 October 2004 - 12:31 PM

I just made a list of 50 drugs with their classes and specifics, but the site wont let me upload the 50 kb .gif images or the excel spreadsheet.  I wonder what the problem is?

Pinball


1. Open MS paint.

2. Look for a key in the upper right hand corner of your keyboard called "prnt screen."

3. Open the document you want so that it is the active application in the foreground of your screen.

4. Press the print screen key

5. In MS paint open "edit" menu and press "paste."

6. Save the file as a .jpg.

7. Upload the image here.

:)

#10 krieg

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Posted 13 October 2004 - 06:30 PM

Or upload it to a free service, like www.imageshack.us.

#11 pinballwizard

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Posted 13 October 2004 - 08:33 PM

Sorry guys, but I don't know why attachments won't work. Therefore, I uploaded the images to the image site.... cool site.

Posted Image
Posted Image

the excel spreadsheet won't upload, but I am almost positive you can copy and paste it in excel if you want a workable copy. Please try it, it looks like an easy copy and paste. Therefore, you now have a workable copy.

Here are some of my novice conclusions and questions and brainstorming. I only been learning about smart drugs for a month. I clearly don't know enough, plus lets assume that there is an occasional mistake here. I encourage and will accept any corrections or criticisms with open arms.

Brainstorming--these are just my personal notes not worthy of being posted.
There were a lot of vasodilators. Which ones are special and which are redundant. There are a lot of, anti-oxidants. Which are special and which are redundant?

If one gets a headache from the fact that your brain with pirecatam or any of the other -cetam drugs use too much choline, then it seems like the bottleneck in the brain enhancement is somewhere in the choline production. Wouldn't it be a good idea to think that we should think of this particular bottleneck and any other in the Neurological system within Acetyl-choline system.

In fact we should think have a flow chart of the whole Neurological system to locate any bottlenecks
1. acetyl choline precursors like DMAE and choline and Alpha GPCand metabolizer helpers like vitamin B complex--> 2. metabolizers like -cetams and vasodilators--> 3. productivity enhancers like receptor amplifiers and anything that increases usage and efficiency like bromocriptine, adrafanil, ashgawanda -->4. Ache inhibitors like aricept and remetabolizers like creatine are another class of productivity enhancers that reuse waste--> 5. anti-oxidants that are necessary for garbage removal of energy waste.

I have heard other people talking about another bottleneck people are talking about which is anti-oxidants for garbage removal besides the lack of choline.

I think it is the bottlenecks that occur that make it important to have a little bit of everything and why synergy is so important. Otherwise the bottleneck moves to another place in the system. "The chain is only as strong as the weakest link"

Therefore at this point, by this logic we should take a look at what links are weakest and the special smart drugs and nutrients that would help the bottlenecks. Special is defined as being either superior in accomplishing a particular link or by having a speciality or a unique niche that enhances that link. Lets look at xanthinol nicotinate a better form of Niacin. Is it really better? SHould we stop taking niacin supplements altogether and start taking this analogue or should we take a little of both?

Lastly, we need to know how risky something is and how beneficial it is. A quantitative ranking is a good idea for both risk and benefit. (this is a starting point). The ranking has to take into account the synergy and counter-synergies created with the other drugs and not if they were taken alone. For example, quite often the benefits for a drug are smaller when taken alone... Piracetam would be a great example.

Questions:
which smart drugs are superior performers and could even replace other nootropics and nutrients?
Which smart drugs are provide a niche specialty? (I think most are this type)
Where are the bottlenecks?
What are their rankings?
What smart drugs lack information and research?

Acetyl-L-Carnitine Amino Acid related Increase metabolism, neural protectant, antilipofuscin
Adrafinil/Modafinil Nootropic Dopamine related
Alpha GPC Nootropic Choline Increaser
ALT-711 Vascular related--Prevents glucose-protein cross-linking
Aniracetam -cetam nootropic Brain metabolizer/glutamate receptor enhancer/
Aricept ACHe inhibitor choline reuptake inhibitor?
Ashwaganda anti-oxidant Nerve growth, increase acetyil choline receptors, anti-oxidant
B12 Essential Nutrient neural health glutamate facilitator
Bacoba Anti-oxidant/calcium Channel blocker
Benfotiamine Essential Nutrient related vitamin b1 related, regulates blood sugar, arterial protector
Bromocriptine Dopamine related potent dopamine receptor agonist
Caffeine Stimulant Dopamine enhancer through adenosine blocking
CDP choline aka citocoline Nootropic Phosphadyl Choline precursor
Centrophenoxine Nootropic Anti-oxidant(lipofuscin repairer), choline precursor
Choline Nootropic Acetyl Choline Increaser
Creatine Metabolism matabolism related
Deprenyl MAO inhibitor dopamine reuptake inhibitor
Desmopressin hormone increases vasopressin
DHEA hormone Neural increaser
DMAE Nootropic Choline production enhancer
galantimine ACHe inhibitor
Gerovital MAO inhibitor MAO inhibitor (epinephrine, dopamine, serotonin)
Ginko Biloba vasodilator Vasodilator, anti-inflammatory, flexibility, antioxidant
Ginseng Stimulant anti-oxidant, brain protector, normalizer
Huperzine A ACHe inhibitor Choline breakdown inhibitor
Hydergine Increase metabolism, anti-oxidant
Idebenone Anti-oxidant Increase metabolism, anti-oxidant, serotonin increaser
Inositol Essential Nutrient vitamin B related, calming effect
L-Theanine Amino Acid related relaxation, glutamic acid related
N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine Amino Acid related antioxidant
Niacin Essential Nutrient increase metabolism, bloodflow
Nicergoline Nerve growth factor vasodilator, glutamate reuptake
Nicotine Stimulant acetyl choline related
nimopidine calcium channel blocker blood flow
Oxiracetam -cetam nootropic
Phosphatidyl serine Miscellaneous/choline Acetyl Choline Increaser, increases glutamate receptors, decreases cortisol
Picamilon vasodilator
Piracetam -cetam nootropic Oxygenator, cholinergetic receptor growth, dopamine stimulator,
pregnalone hormone hormone precursor
Pyritinol Anti-oxidant glucose uptake, antioxidant, rheumatoid arthritus
Pyrodoxamine dihydrochoride antioxidant
pyroglutamate amino Acid
RALA Anti-oxidant thru blood brain barrier
Resveratrol Anti-cancer from red wine
thiamine Essential Nutrient metabolism, antioxidant
vinpocetine vasodilator bloodflow, channel blocker, neuroprotectant, metabolizer
Vitamin B Complex Essential Nutrient Metabolism and stress
vitamin E Essential Nutrient anti-oxidant, nueral plaque protector
xanthinol nicotinate Essential Nutrient related metabolism, vasodilator
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#12 pinballwizard

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Posted 13 October 2004 - 09:17 PM

It is your novice nootropic scholar here again.

A new classification table of smart drugs will look like this below...

the need for debate
This would take time to create because it involves a subjective quantitative ranking of risks and benefits for which I want some controversy and debate. I have not figured out what the 1-10 ranking would literally mean. I could see some people gung ho about a particular smart drug that other people think might be unsafe or lacking research, for example.

The controversy that needs to be avoided is the whole subject that everybody responds differently... and what works for some people may not work for others. We all know by now that our brains are different and will respond differently. Lets not open "old wounds".

The smart drug scores will be based upon the results of normal healthy middle of of the bell curve people that have a stack of nootropics that they have titrated well. They will not be based on some epileptic with a heart and liver condition on prozac and for which nothing seems to work for them. They will not be based upon some guy that can only afford this nootropic but a decent stack to which the smart drug can create synergies.

My sources for information will be the 3 outdated books on smart drugs, Brain candy, Smart drugs I and II. I have more books coming in the mail. However, I need to find easy reading up to date journals that will show the results of mice and men. Lastly I will have to use the net bulletins and your analysis.

If you guys have good sources or search engines let me know, ok?
Please help me correct any mistakes.
Do you know of any books on general basics of how the brain and neurons work?
If anyone wants the excel spreadsheet let me know how to upload it.

Thanks, Pinball

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#13 scottl

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Posted 13 October 2004 - 09:25 PM

Good info on neurotransmitters:

http://www.benbest.c...d/anatmd10.html

For the chemically minded, very cool sight:

http://www.pharmcent.../nootropics.htm

broken down:

precursors & mimetics
enzyme & uptake drugs
phospholipid membrane esters
steroids
mood stabilizers
antianoxics
cerebral vasodilators & anticoagulants
peptides
miscellaneous agents




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