27 replies to this topic

[smithx]

I'm about to give up and go on angiotensin II antagonists, which I've been trying to avoid.

My blood pressure hovers around 145/103, sometimes dipping down to 116/90, but then it's back up to 151/107 and I feel dizzy and worried about it.

I've taken (for at least a month) the following with no change at all:

- magnesium: 1.2g (citrate, chloride, amino acid chelate)
- calcium 1g (carbonate, citrate, amino acid chelate)
- Jarrow Pressure Optimizer 2 tablets (contains lactopeptides which are supposed to lower blood pressure)
- Twinlab Blood Pressure Success 2 tablets (also contains lactopeptides)
- Grape seed extract 300mg (the one which was used in the study where it lowered BP)
- DHA 1g (500mg morning and evening - all of these are split into 2 doses)
- GLA (borage oil - 500mg GLA)
- l-arginine 2g
- B complex vitamins
- garlic with hawthorn (Garlicin)
- vitamin C 2g (time release, 1g twice a day)
- Resveratrol 99% (RevGenetics) 500mg (once in the morning)
- coQ10 400mg (200mg 2x a day)
- quercetin 1g (not for BP)
- benfotiamine 300mg (not for BP)
- l-leucine 500mg (not for BP)
- n-acetyl glucosamine 4.5g (trying to taper down to 1.5g a day - not for BP)
- DHEA 100mg (sublingual, once in the morning. Tastes horrible)
- Methyl B-12 3mcg (once, in the morning. Sublingual)
- Jarrow MK-7 vitamin K 90mcg
- strong hibiscus tea which I make myself. It's so strong it's the color of red wine. 2 glasses a day.
- taurine 1g (recently started)
- Pomegranite extract (Pomeratrol - recently started)
- For sleeping I sometimes take L-tryptophan 500mg to 1g. I don't think it really helps.
- I was taking St. John's wort, Perika, 600mg until about 2 weeks ago. There has been no change since I discontinued it.

I also exercise for 25 minutes every other day to a heart rate of 150bpm.

I do drink about 2 drinks to 4 drinks per night, but I don't think that's related because I stopped for 2 months with no change.

Finally, I am not sleeping well or consistently, which could be contributory.

Does anyone have any ideas for changes in supplements which could be of use before I give up and go on meds?

Thanks all.

[ajnast4r]

what does your potassium and sodium intake look like? caffeine intake?

[rwac]

What's your fructose intake like ?
(sugar = sucrose = glucose+fructose

They examined 4,528 adults 18 years of age or older with no prior history of hypertension. Fructose intake was calculated based on a dietary questionnaire, and foods such as fruit juices, soft drinks, bakery products, and candy were included. Dr. Jalal's team found that people who ate or drank more than 74 grams per day of fructose (2.5 sugary soft drinks per day) increased their risk of developing hypertension. Specifically, a diet of more than 74 grams per day of fructose led to a 28%, 36%, and 87% higher risk for blood pressure levels of 135/85, 140/90, and 160/100 mmHg, respectively. (A normal blood pressure reading is below 120/80 mmHg.)

http://www.scienceda...91029211521.htm

[simon007]

I'm about to give up and go on angiotensin II antagonists, which I've been trying to avoid.

My blood pressure hovers around 145/103, sometimes dipping down to 116/90, but then it's back up to 151/107 and I feel dizzy and worried about it.

I've taken (for at least a month) the following with no change at all:

- magnesium: 1.2g (citrate, chloride, amino acid chelate)
- calcium 1g (carbonate, citrate, amino acid chelate)
- Jarrow Pressure Optimizer 2 tablets (contains lactopeptides which are supposed to lower blood pressure)
- Twinlab Blood Pressure Success 2 tablets (also contains lactopeptides)
- Grape seed extract 300mg (the one which was used in the study where it lowered BP)
- DHA 1g (500mg morning and evening - all of these are split into 2 doses)
- GLA (borage oil - 500mg GLA)
- l-arginine 2g
- B complex vitamins
- garlic with hawthorn (Garlicin)
- vitamin C 2g (time release, 1g twice a day)
- Resveratrol 99% (RevGenetics) 500mg (once in the morning)
- coQ10 400mg (200mg 2x a day)
- quercetin 1g (not for BP)
- benfotiamine 300mg (not for BP)
- l-leucine 500mg (not for BP)
- n-acetyl glucosamine 4.5g (trying to taper down to 1.5g a day - not for BP)
- DHEA 100mg (sublingual, once in the morning. Tastes horrible)
- Methyl B-12 3mcg (once, in the morning. Sublingual)
- Jarrow MK-7 vitamin K 90mcg
- strong hibiscus tea which I make myself. It's so strong it's the color of red wine. 2 glasses a day.
- taurine 1g (recently started)
- Pomegranite extract (Pomeratrol - recently started)
- For sleeping I sometimes take L-tryptophan 500mg to 1g. I don't think it really helps.
- I was taking St. John's wort, Perika, 600mg until about 2 weeks ago. There has been no change since I discontinued it.

I also exercise for 25 minutes every other day to a heart rate of 150bpm.

I do drink about 2 drinks to 4 drinks per night, but I don't think that's related because I stopped for 2 months with no change.

Finally, I am not sleeping well or consistently, which could be contributory.

Does anyone have any ideas for changes in supplements which could be of use before I give up and go on meds?

Thanks all.

Hi Smithx,

I had exactly the same problem. Most of the time by BP was 150/95. It sometimes dropped to 120/80, but after a few days it went up again.

I stopped all supplements except my ace-inhibitor and acarbose and now my BP is 110/75.
I also stopped drinking machine coffee at the office.

My advice would be to stop all supplements except the BP medicine and tune to a point your BP has acceptable values(under 120/80).

Cheers,

Simon

[smithx]

what does your potassium and sodium intake look like? caffeine intake?

I probably get about 2-3 gm of sodium a day.

My potassium I haven't calculated, but I haven't done anything to increase it.

As far as fructose goes, I do eat some dried fruit, some 85% chocolate, and occasionally a dessert, though I'm trying to avoid that.

I was considering stopping all supplements, but I had a horrible progressive neuropathy which started earlier in the year and is almost gone. I'm not sure if it went away on its own or because of supplements, notably n-acetyl glucosamine and perhaps benfotiamine. So I'm reluctant to stop those suddenly, though I have tapered off from 11gm a day down to 4.5gm or NAG at the moment. Maybe I'll stop all the others for a while.

I asked my Dr for a prescription for an angiotensin II antagonist, but I would rather not take it because I seem to get the worst side effects of whatever drug I'm prescribed. Sometimes they are side effects not listed in the literature, but which the company admits when I call them after experiencing them.

[simon007]

what does your potassium and sodium intake look like? caffeine intake?

I probably get about 2-3 gm of sodium a day.

My potassium I haven't calculated, but I haven't done anything to increase it.

As far as fructose goes, I do eat some dried fruit, some 85% chocolate, and occasionally a dessert, though I'm trying to avoid that.

I was considering stopping all supplements, but I had a horrible progressive neuropathy which started earlier in the year and is almost gone. I'm not sure if it went away on its own or because of supplements, notably n-acetyl glucosamine and perhaps benfotiamine. So I'm reluctant to stop those suddenly, though I have tapered off from 11gm a day down to 4.5gm or NAG at the moment. Maybe I'll stop all the others for a while.

I asked my Dr for a prescription for an angiotensin II antagonist, but I would rather not take it because I seem to get the worst side effects of whatever drug I'm prescribed. Sometimes they are side effects not listed in the literature, but which the company admits when I call them after experiencing them.

Hi Smithx,

It took a month before BP came down, right know I'm carefully starting to take supplements again while I'm monitoring my BP. I bought a BP monitor to do this at home.
I also believe that ACE inhibitors and ARB's have longevity value because of the interaction with the klotho gene.

There is a discussion about this on the forum. So taking BP medicine isn't all bad. On the other side having hypertension is definitely a bad thing for your health.

Best regards,

Simon

[rwac]

I was considering stopping all supplements, but I had a horrible progressive neuropathy which started earlier in the year and is almost gone. I'm not sure if it went away on its own or because of supplements, notably n-acetyl glucosamine and perhaps benfotiamine. So I'm reluctant to stop those suddenly, though I have tapered off from 11gm a day down to 4.5gm or NAG at the moment. Maybe I'll stop all the others for a while.

I asked my Dr for a prescription for an angiotensin II antagonist, but I would rather not take it because I seem to get the worst side effects of whatever drug I'm prescribed. Sometimes they are side effects not listed in the literature, but which the company admits when I call them after experiencing them.

Allopurinol may be something to try:

http://www.medpageto...ertension/16100

Or you could drop the fructose.

Edited by rwac, 06 October 2010 - 01:36 PM.

[nameless]

Are you using a decently absorbed form of CoQ10? Dry caps, gels? How is your vitamin D level?

You could consider trying pycnogenol plus maybe something like an albion magnesium glycinate (instead of citrate). If taking dry CoQ10, you could try a little ubiquinol. And if your high BP is recent, consider the possibility that one of the supplements you are taking is actually raising it.

If nothing else helps, an ACE or ARB isn't so terrible. Beta blockers are the ones I'd recommend avoiding, unless you have no choice (like myself), as they tend to have more side effects.

Edited by nameless, 06 October 2010 - 04:27 PM.

[KimberCT]

Nebivolol - beta blocker with a beneficial side effect profile

[nowayout]

Some people get a good reduction in BP on daily low lose Cialis or Levitra. They may have a better side effect profile than other BP medications, and they have other cardiovascular and possibly urological benefits.

Edited by viveutvivas, 06 October 2010 - 04:48 PM.

[aLurker]

Or if you have ADHD/ADD: look into Guanfacine.

[health_nutty]

Try removing resveratrol for 3 weeks and see if that helps. There have been some reports of resv increasing BP.

You can also look into l-citrulline (it increases arginine levels better than taking argine).

Edited by health_nutty, 06 October 2010 - 05:16 PM.

[smithx]

Allopurinol may be something to try:

http://www.medpageto...ertension/16100

Or you could drop the fructose.

My father took that and I think it had some very negative side effects on his cognitive state.

So it's less fructose for me. I wonder about eating fresh or dried fruit. Supposedly the fiber makes it okay, but I don't think that should be relied upon.

[smithx]

Nebivolol - beta blocker with a beneficial side effect profile

Or if you have ADHD/ADD: look into Guanfacine.

Those are both interesting drugs. Beta blockers are generally associated with impotence, as is guanfacine, so I would probably rather stay away from them if possible.

[smithx]

Try removing resveratrol for 3 weeks and see if that helps. There have been some reports of resv increasing BP.

You can also look into l-citrulline (it increases arginine levels better than taking argine).

I am going to try this too.

[niner]

smithx, cutting fructose (and other high-glycemic carbs) might help you lose weight, which will probably control your bp if you lose enough. You might want to look at this thread on the longevity-promoting effects of ARBs. I took Diovan for a few years, and it worked great with no side effects in me. Fixing my diet brought my weight down and eliminated any need for bp meds. If you do go the med route, there's no need to stop all supplements.

[ajnast4r]

I probably get about 2-3 gm of sodium a day.

My potassium I haven't calculated, but I haven't done anything to increase it.

its kind of pointless even bothering with supplements if you arent going to address the most BASIC dietary causes of high bp.

restrict your sodium to under 1.5g/day, aim for 100-150% rda for potassium, hit 100-150% rda for magnesium, and 80-100% rda for calcium.

20$ says your bp goes down.

[VoidPointer]

Beet(root) juice. 12 oz per day..

http://www.scienceda...00628161123.htm

http://altmedicine.a...troot_juice.htm

also increases athletic performance;

http://www.scienceda...90806141520.htm


Juice organic beets with red cabbage(75/25 ratio). Since I take stimulant medication(Focalin) for ADD, I hoping that consumption of the juice will somewhat mitigate the potential negative effects on the cardiovascular system.

Tastes like hell,,, really bad(I juice the tops and stems as well, expensive so I need the max utility).

[smithx]

Beet(root) juice. 12 oz per day..

That's really interesting, thanks for posting it.

I'm somewhat concerned about the potential negative long-term side effects however, primarily due to beets' high oxalate content. Oxalate binds calcium and prevents absorption, and can cause gout and kidney stones: http://en.wikipedia....logical_effects

There are a few other side-effects listed here: http://vegetarian.lo...ce_Side_Effects
and on other sites that talk about juicing beets.

You should probably be drinking high-calcium low-fat milk along with your beet juice: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12700095

Edited by smithx, 07 October 2010 - 12:01 PM.

[smithx]

OK, so this is interesting.

I'm doing a few different things, so not sure what's working but I've:

- cut out quercetin, resveratrol and benfotiamine
- started taking triphala again (it's the only thing which gets rid of reflux for me)
- started eating 100% chocolate (about 1/2 bar a day - it's amazing): http://www.seventype.../pralus-le-100/
- added this beet juice http://www.shoporgan...ood-supplements about 6oz plus equal quantities of non-fat milk

And now my BP is down to 127/95. Let's see if it lasts.

Edited by smithx, 09 October 2010 - 02:28 AM.

[pycnogenol]

I also exercise for 25 minutes every other day to a heart rate of 150 bpm.

If you are able to walk every day for a minimum of 30 minutes that might help you.

I had borderline hypertension until I consistently started walking twice per day
[1/2 hour AM & 1/2 hour PM] every single day and now my BP is 120/80
plus as an added bonus I've also lost weight.

Edited by pycnogenol, 09 October 2010 - 02:56 PM.

[christopherforums]

Also exercise more than 25 min EOD...just a suggestion. Eat healthy, drink healthy, meditate.

[User]

I've had high blood pressure for quite a long time (nurse commenting about it in primary school) and also a family history of hypertension. Nothing really seemed to work for me. I'm lean and fit. I Tried daily exercise and many supplements (CoQ10, L-Theanine, Hawthorn berries, Quercetin, Lycopene, Fish oil, Vitamin D, ALA). I also switched to lo-carb diet, but that didn't help either. My BP was 150/90 mmHg and I wasn't feeling that good. Next, I started dropping all of the pre-salted foods from my diet and switched to using mineral salt (contains 50% sodium, 40% potassium and 10% magnesium salts) in cooking. I also started with 1000 mg of taurine in the morning and in the evening. These seemed to have a dramatic effect. My BP dropped to 115/70 mmHg and has stayed at that level. I haven't tested which one, mineral salt or taurine, it was or whether it's a combined effect.

[smithx]

The effect didn't last or hasn't stabilized yet.

I have large swings of BP between 116/87 up to 162/117. At the higher numbers I feel dizzy and faint.

So perhaps I'll increase the exercise and the taurine before giving up and starting on the meds....

[smithx]

OK, so for the last 2 days my BP has been super low. Something is finally working.

Right now it's 99/77. This is just incredible. There is NO prescription hypertension medication which can lower BP from 162/117 to 99/77. No such thing.

What I added was:
- beet juice (fermented, bottled) about 6 oz a day + skim milk and calcium supplements (to avoid the oxalic acid issue)
- 100% chocolate
- 1.5G of taurine a day (.5g morning, 1g evening)

So either one or more of those did it, or what I'd been taking already (at the top of this thread) took a while to kick in and finally did. Or both.

My plan now is to keep doing what I've been doing and verify that the BP will stay low for at least a week, then start cutting out things I think may be unnecessary, or introducing things I would like to take but have cut out, each for a week, and see if my BP goes up. If it does, I switch back.

[smithx]

Ugh... malfunctioning BP meter seems to have been the cause of the apparent huge reduction.

It was too good to be true.

[health_nutty]

Ugh... malfunctioning BP meter seems to have been the cause of the apparent huge reduction.

It was too good to be true.

I know your frustration. I went through a similar thing at begining of the year where my BP would fluctuate from ~125/70 to ~150/85. Eventually it just went away. I thought it was the taurine or the ubiquinol, celery, or tomato paste that i added, but I have since not taken any of these and my BP is still low 115/70. My high BP was really odd because I eat a very natural diet, am thin but athletic (145lb 5'10"), do intense exercise, etc.

Several things have changed since then: I stopped taking ibuprophen when I was taking it once maybe twice per week. I stopped resveratrol, benfotiamine, beta alanine, and green tea extract. I plan on adding green tea extract back carefully monitoring my BP.

Other things to look into:
1) Celery
2) Tomato paste (for the lycopene)

[livingguy]

I'm about to give up and go on angiotensin II antagonists, which I've been trying to avoid.

My blood pressure hovers around 145/103, sometimes dipping down to 116/90, but then it's back up to 151/107 and I feel dizzy and worried about it.

I've taken (for at least a month) the following with no change at all:

- magnesium: 1.2g (citrate, chloride, amino acid chelate)
- calcium 1g (carbonate, citrate, amino acid chelate)
- Jarrow Pressure Optimizer 2 tablets (contains lactopeptides which are supposed to lower blood pressure)
- Twinlab Blood Pressure Success 2 tablets (also contains lactopeptides)
- Grape seed extract 300mg (the one which was used in the study where it lowered BP)
- DHA 1g (500mg morning and evening - all of these are split into 2 doses)
- GLA (borage oil - 500mg GLA)
- l-arginine 2g
- B complex vitamins
- garlic with hawthorn (Garlicin)
- vitamin C 2g (time release, 1g twice a day)
- Resveratrol 99% (RevGenetics) 500mg (once in the morning)
- coQ10 400mg (200mg 2x a day)
- quercetin 1g (not for BP)
- benfotiamine 300mg (not for BP)
- l-leucine 500mg (not for BP)
- n-acetyl glucosamine 4.5g (trying to taper down to 1.5g a day - not for BP)
- DHEA 100mg (sublingual, once in the morning. Tastes horrible)
- Methyl B-12 3mcg (once, in the morning. Sublingual)
- Jarrow MK-7 vitamin K 90mcg
- strong hibiscus tea which I make myself. It's so strong it's the color of red wine. 2 glasses a day.
- taurine 1g (recently started)
- Pomegranite extract (Pomeratrol - recently started)
- For sleeping I sometimes take L-tryptophan 500mg to 1g. I don't think it really helps.
- I was taking St. John's wort, Perika, 600mg until about 2 weeks ago. There has been no change since I discontinued it.

I also exercise for 25 minutes every other day to a heart rate of 150bpm.

I do drink about 2 drinks to 4 drinks per night, but I don't think that's related because I stopped for 2 months with no change.

Finally, I am not sleeping well or consistently, which could be contributory.

Does anyone have any ideas for changes in supplements which could be of use before I give up and go on meds?

Thanks all.

Make the following changes:

1) Stop resveratrol
2) Stop MK7
3) Stop Jarrow and Twin Lab pressure products.
4) Stop methyl B12
5) Stop DHEA
6) Stop Leucine
7) Stop GLA
8) Stop Grape seed extract (I know you are taking Mega Natural).
10) Start Pycnogenol 100mg twice a day
11) Change Coenzyme Q 10 to Ubiqinol 100mg taken 3 to 4 times daily.
12) How are you taking your DHA? I would suggest LEF Super Omega 3 @ 1 Capsule 4 times daily.
13) Beet root juice
14) Potassium Supplementation take various forms about 800mg in divided doses
15) LEF Cocoa extract with Pomegranate (Stop Pometrol)

If after the above changes if its still not normal in 2 weeks consider adding Peptace by Natural Factors.

Edited by livingguy, 17 October 2010 - 06:29 PM.