9 replies to this topic

[Blight]

I recently sent this email to David Brin:

David, I have read all your books and think that you are an outstanding writer. Also,
I believe that your continuous observations on society and the universe are very
Important. I am curious what your reaction is to the doomsday scenario presented
by Luis Sancho, Walter Wagner and Otto Rossler. In the web address I have attached,
Luis is claiming that Penrose is providing him inside information on the Large Hadron
Collider – and that some of the research is aimed at making strangelets. I also note
that these individuals (Luis, ect.) do have science and math backgrounds.

http://www.cerntruth.com/?p=125

Not being a particle physicist, I have no way of addressing these claims. I do know that
Penrose is as highly respected as Hawkin in the physics world. In your novel, Earth, the
world confronts an equally dangerous encounter with exotic particles. It would be
nice if the UN has a committee addressing technological dangers – or if some US
government organization was created for this purpose.

I do think Sancho has a point that those whose livelihoods are tied to CERN could
well be compromised in their opinions. His quote from Fermi is also quite disturbing:
Perhaps we haven’t received any alien communications because their high energy
physics experiments have destroyed them. (I also see from your “are we doomed”
video that you take the Fermi Paradox quite seriously.)

You also made mention at your site an organization whose main purpose is addressing
these dangers – the Life Boat Foundation. Has it studied the threat possibilities of the
LHC? Would this organization be interested in recruiting new members? Would any
situation demand some form of political response or protest? Best wishes, Blight

Well are Strangelets at the LHC a credible threat - and if so has The Lifeboat Foundation
developed a credible plan for addressing it? I'm getting the impression that this foundation
may be like the League of Nations prior to World War II. It is not quite clear to me how blogging
and chit chatting will mitigate any real threats. Nor am I impressed with the paid membership angle,
maybe the Life Boat Foundation could sell t-shirts stating: We Blew It and Everybody Died
We got a plan to save humanity (but it needs to go through a series of subcommittees)
Please forgive me - I am new to this site - and do not intend to be insulting.

[Elus]

I recently sent this email to David Brin:

David, I have read all your books and think that you are an outstanding writer. Also,
I believe that your continuous observations on society and the universe are very
Important. I am curious what your reaction is to the doomsday scenario presented
by Luis Sancho, Walter Wagner and Otto Rossler. In the web address I have attached,
Luis is claiming that Penrose is providing him inside information on the Large Hadron
Collider – and that some of the research is aimed at making strangelets. I also note
that these individuals (Luis, ect.) do have science and math backgrounds.

http://www.cerntruth.com/?p=125

Not being a particle physicist, I have no way of addressing these claims. I do know that
Penrose is as highly respected as Hawkin in the physics world. In your novel, Earth, the
world confronts an equally dangerous encounter with exotic particles. It would be
nice if the UN has a committee addressing technological dangers – or if some US
government organization was created for this purpose.

I do think Sancho has a point that those whose livelihoods are tied to CERN could
well be compromised in their opinions. His quote from Fermi is also quite disturbing:
Perhaps we haven't received any alien communications because their high energy
physics experiments have destroyed them. (I also see from your "are we doomed"
video that you take the Fermi Paradox quite seriously.)

You also made mention at your site an organization whose main purpose is addressing
these dangers – the Life Boat Foundation. Has it studied the threat possibilities of the
LHC? Would this organization be interested in recruiting new members? Would any
situation demand some form of political response or protest? Best wishes, Blight

Well are Strangelets at the LHC a credible threat - and if so has The Lifeboat Foundation
developed a credible plan for addressing it? I'm getting the impression that this foundation
may be like the League of Nations prior to World War II. It is not quite clear to me how blogging
and chit chatting will mitigate any real threats. Nor am I impressed with the paid membership angle,
maybe the Life Boat Foundation could sell t-shirts stating: We Blew It and Everybody Died
We got a plan to save humanity (but it needs to go through a series of subcommittees)
Please forgive me - I am new to this site - and do not intend to be insulting.

I quote from Wikipedia:

The danger of catalyzed conversion by strangelets produced in heavy-ion colliders has received some media attention,^[17][18]and concerns of this type were raised^[12][19] at the commencement of the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) experiment at Brookhaven, which could potentially have created strangelets. A detailed analysis^[13] concluded that the RHIC collisions were comparable to ones which naturally occur as cosmic rays traverse the solar system, so we would already have seen such a disaster if it were possible. RHIC has been operating since 2000 without incident. Similar concerns have been raised about the operation of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN^[20] but such fears are dismissed as far-fetched by scientists.^[20][21][22]

http://en.wikipedia....angelet#Dangers

[Blight]

Recently, I read a troubling article that I have no credentials
to judge. Fermi, who was troubled by the great silence observed
in the Milky Way, noted that perhaps physicists were destroying
civilizations before they could develop robust space travel. The
following article makes a case that indeed a bad decision process
is being followed and enforced at CERN that could theoretically produce an
extinction-level event.

http://www.cerntruth.com/?p=125

I ran this same argument by the Lifeboat Foundation (see quote
above)and as a
counter argument they quoted Wikipedia that such an event
was precluded by the greater power of naturally occurring
cosmic rays. But this indicated that they had not really read
the article which presented evidence negating this argument.
Also evidence was presented that the most current theory
development conducted in China - indicates that the
experiments at CERN could produce long lasting strangelets
and that these strangelets could be highly dangerous.

It is my hope that someone with the correct background would
give this article serious analysis. (By the way, when did
serious scientists start quoting Wikipedia as a credible
scientific source? Also Wikipedia's quote that this notion
has been considered far-fetched by scientists - does not
include the scientists that are saying it is not far-fetched.)

[Blight]

I recently sent this email to David Brin:

David, I have read all your books and think that you are an outstanding writer. Also,
I believe that your continuous observations on society and the universe are very
Important. I am curious what your reaction is to the doomsday scenario presented
by Luis Sancho, Walter Wagner and Otto Rossler. In the web address I have attached,
Luis is claiming that Penrose is providing him inside information on the Large Hadron
Collider – and that some of the research is aimed at making strangelets. I also note
that these individuals (Luis, ect.) do have science and math backgrounds.

http://www.cerntruth.com/?p=125

Not being a particle physicist, I have no way of addressing these claims. I do know that
Penrose is as highly respected as Hawkin in the physics world. In your novel, Earth, the
world confronts an equally dangerous encounter with exotic particles. It would be
nice if the UN has a committee addressing technological dangers – or if some US
government organization was created for this purpose.

I do think Sancho has a point that those whose livelihoods are tied to CERN could
well be compromised in their opinions. His quote from Fermi is also quite disturbing:
Perhaps we haven't received any alien communications because their high energy
physics experiments have destroyed them. (I also see from your "are we doomed"
video that you take the Fermi Paradox quite seriously.)

You also made mention at your site an organization whose main purpose is addressing
these dangers – the Life Boat Foundation. Has it studied the threat possibilities of the
LHC? Would this organization be interested in recruiting new members? Would any
situation demand some form of political response or protest? Best wishes, Blight

Well are Strangelets at the LHC a credible threat - and if so has The Lifeboat Foundation
developed a credible plan for addressing it? I'm getting the impression that this foundation
may be like the League of Nations prior to World War II. It is not quite clear to me how blogging
and chit chatting will mitigate any real threats. Nor am I impressed with the paid membership angle,
maybe the Life Boat Foundation could sell t-shirts stating: We Blew It and Everybody Died
We got a plan to save humanity (but it needs to go through a series of subcommittees)
Please forgive me - I am new to this site - and do not intend to be insulting.

I quote from Wikipedia:

The danger of catalyzed conversion by strangelets produced in heavy-ion colliders has received some media attention,^[17][18]and concerns of this type were raised^[12][19] at the commencement of the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) experiment at Brookhaven, which could potentially have created strangelets. A detailed analysis^[13] concluded that the RHIC collisions were comparable to ones which naturally occur as cosmic rays traverse the solar system, so we would already have seen such a disaster if it were possible. RHIC has been operating since 2000 without incident. Similar concerns have been raised about the operation of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN^[20] but such fears are dismissed as far-fetched by scientists.^[20][21][22]

http://en.wikipedia....angelet#Dangers

The website I included in my article provided information arguing against the cosmic ray analogy. And Wikipedia
in most colleges is not considered a credible source of information (for citing purposes). The comment that "scientists" believe something is clearly incorrect because "some scientists" don't agree. An actual critique of the arguments given at the website would have far more merit; Wikipedia has little or none. It's a mediocre source of poorly organized and vetted
information.

Edited by Blight, 11 October 2010 - 11:31 PM.

[Elus]

I recently sent this email to David Brin:

David, I have read all your books and think that you are an outstanding writer. Also,
I believe that your continuous observations on society and the universe are very
Important. I am curious what your reaction is to the doomsday scenario presented
by Luis Sancho, Walter Wagner and Otto Rossler. In the web address I have attached,
Luis is claiming that Penrose is providing him inside information on the Large Hadron
Collider – and that some of the research is aimed at making strangelets. I also note
that these individuals (Luis, ect.) do have science and math backgrounds.

http://www.cerntruth.com/?p=125

Not being a particle physicist, I have no way of addressing these claims. I do know that
Penrose is as highly respected as Hawkin in the physics world. In your novel, Earth, the
world confronts an equally dangerous encounter with exotic particles. It would be
nice if the UN has a committee addressing technological dangers – or if some US
government organization was created for this purpose.

I do think Sancho has a point that those whose livelihoods are tied to CERN could
well be compromised in their opinions. His quote from Fermi is also quite disturbing:
Perhaps we haven't received any alien communications because their high energy
physics experiments have destroyed them. (I also see from your "are we doomed"
video that you take the Fermi Paradox quite seriously.)

You also made mention at your site an organization whose main purpose is addressing
these dangers – the Life Boat Foundation. Has it studied the threat possibilities of the
LHC? Would this organization be interested in recruiting new members? Would any
situation demand some form of political response or protest? Best wishes, Blight

Well are Strangelets at the LHC a credible threat - and if so has The Lifeboat Foundation
developed a credible plan for addressing it? I'm getting the impression that this foundation
may be like the League of Nations prior to World War II. It is not quite clear to me how blogging
and chit chatting will mitigate any real threats. Nor am I impressed with the paid membership angle,
maybe the Life Boat Foundation could sell t-shirts stating: We Blew It and Everybody Died
We got a plan to save humanity (but it needs to go through a series of subcommittees)
Please forgive me - I am new to this site - and do not intend to be insulting.

I quote from Wikipedia:

The danger of catalyzed conversion by strangelets produced in heavy-ion colliders has received some media attention,^[17][18]and concerns of this type were raised^[12][19] at the commencement of the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) experiment at Brookhaven, which could potentially have created strangelets. A detailed analysis^[13] concluded that the RHIC collisions were comparable to ones which naturally occur as cosmic rays traverse the solar system, so we would already have seen such a disaster if it were possible. RHIC has been operating since 2000 without incident. Similar concerns have been raised about the operation of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN^[20] but such fears are dismissed as far-fetched by scientists.^[20][21][22]

http://en.wikipedia....angelet#Dangers

The website I included in my article provided information arguing against the cosmic ray analogy. And Wikipedia
in most colleges is not considered a credible source of information (for citing purposes). The comment that "scientists" believe something is clearly incorrect because "some scientists" don't agree. An actual critique of the arguments given at the website would have far more merit; Wikipedia has little or none. It's a mediocre source of poorly organized and vetted
information.

Before dismissing relevant information I provided to you so quickly, why not examine the sources provided more closely. Namely the last three which lists plenty of scientists from all over the world who do not see strangelets as even close to a credible threat.

You are not physicist (And neither am I), so it is not up to you to decide whether Wikipedia is a mediocre source of 'poorly' organized information. Actually, in an overwhelming majority, wikipedia is THE most accurate source of scientific and mathematical information you can possibly go to, updated and reorganized more frequently than any database on earth. Your critique of wikipedia is nonsense, given that all of the sources are cited, and credible PEER-REVIEWED sources are given priority.

Your so called website is not peer-reviewed; its just a bunch of speculative bullshit that the majority of the physics community has dismissed with good reason. Do you think that people intelligent enough to be physicists would gamble with the fate of the planet even if there were the slightest chance that something could go wrong?

Bottom line: This issue has already been given more media attention than it deserves. It has been logically and methodically dismissed as pseudoscience BY the scientific community.

[Blight]

I recently sent this email to David Brin:

David, I have read all your books and think that you are an outstanding writer. Also,
I believe that your continuous observations on society and the universe are very
Important. I am curious what your reaction is to the doomsday scenario presented
by Luis Sancho, Walter Wagner and Otto Rossler. In the web address I have attached,
Luis is claiming that Penrose is providing him inside information on the Large Hadron
Collider – and that some of the research is aimed at making strangelets. I also note
that these individuals (Luis, ect.) do have science and math backgrounds.

http://www.cerntruth.com/?p=125

Not being a particle physicist, I have no way of addressing these claims. I do know that
Penrose is as highly respected as Hawkin in the physics world. In your novel, Earth, the
world confronts an equally dangerous encounter with exotic particles. It would be
nice if the UN has a committee addressing technological dangers – or if some US
government organization was created for this purpose.

I do think Sancho has a point that those whose livelihoods are tied to CERN could
well be compromised in their opinions. His quote from Fermi is also quite disturbing:
Perhaps we haven't received any alien communications because their high energy
physics experiments have destroyed them. (I also see from your "are we doomed"
video that you take the Fermi Paradox quite seriously.)

You also made mention at your site an organization whose main purpose is addressing
these dangers – the Life Boat Foundation. Has it studied the threat possibilities of the
LHC? Would this organization be interested in recruiting new members? Would any
situation demand some form of political response or protest? Best wishes, Blight

Well are Strangelets at the LHC a credible threat - and if so has The Lifeboat Foundation
developed a credible plan for addressing it? I'm getting the impression that this foundation
may be like the League of Nations prior to World War II. It is not quite clear to me how blogging
and chit chatting will mitigate any real threats. Nor am I impressed with the paid membership angle,
maybe the Life Boat Foundation could sell t-shirts stating: We Blew It and Everybody Died
We got a plan to save humanity (but it needs to go through a series of subcommittees)
Please forgive me - I am new to this site - and do not intend to be insulting.

I quote from Wikipedia:

The danger of catalyzed conversion by strangelets produced in heavy-ion colliders has received some media attention,^[17][18]and concerns of this type were raised^[12][19] at the commencement of the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) experiment at Brookhaven, which could potentially have created strangelets. A detailed analysis^[13] concluded that the RHIC collisions were comparable to ones which naturally occur as cosmic rays traverse the solar system, so we would already have seen such a disaster if it were possible. RHIC has been operating since 2000 without incident. Similar concerns have been raised about the operation of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN^[20] but such fears are dismissed as far-fetched by scientists.^[20][21][22]

http://en.wikipedia....angelet#Dangers

The website I included in my article provided information arguing against the cosmic ray analogy. And Wikipedia
in most colleges is not considered a credible source of information (for citing purposes). The comment that "scientists" believe something is clearly incorrect because "some scientists" don't agree. An actual critique of the arguments given at the website would have far more merit; Wikipedia has little or none. It's a mediocre source of poorly organized and vetted
information.

Before dismissing relevant information I provided to you so quickly, why not examine the sources provided more closely. Namely the last three which lists plenty of scientists from all over the world who do not see strangelets as even close to a credible threat.

You are not physicist (And neither am I), so it is not up to you to decide whether Wikipedia is a mediocre source of 'poorly' organized information. Actually, in an overwhelming majority, wikipedia is THE most accurate source of scientific and mathematical information you can possibly go to, updated and reorganized more frequently than any database on earth. Your critique of wikipedia is nonsense, given that all of the sources are cited, and credible PEER-REVIEWED sources are given priority.

Your so called website is not peer-reviewed; its just a bunch of speculative bullshit that the majority of the physics community has dismissed with good reason. Do you think that people intelligent enough to be physicists would gamble with the fate of the planet even if there were the slightest chance that something could go wrong?

Bottom line: This issue has already been given more media attention than it deserves. It has been logically and methodically dismissed as pseudoscience BY the scientific community.

Before the detonation of the first atomic bomb, a few physicists believed that it could cause a chain reaction in the atmosphere. The bomb, however, was detonated. (The point here is that ends of society many times override the dangers inherent in the means.) In looking at the statements of leading, eminent physicists, a number of them have indicated (are cited by the media) a slight probability of a dangerous event. If you are interested, I can track a number of these down and post them - or you could pry your eyes off Wikipedia and do the same. I'm happy you noted that a majority of the physics community have dismissed this danger - as Einstein slyly noted the laws of physics are not democratically determined, often only one person will be right.
In this regard, I am curious if the physicists cited in the article (in China) have actually determined that there is a credible danger from the LHC. Although it may easier to keep thumping Wikipedia with your index finger and fuming about pseudoscience, you or someone else - might take the time to see if there is any basis to this claim. Wikipedia is not the Bible of science - since by definition science precludes that possibility - and fuming about pseudoscience does not exempt one from engaging in more scientific behavior. Perhaps the media is jacking up fear, perhaps this is all blatant pseudoscience - in fact, I sincerely hope it is; but in no sense can one say that it has been logically and methodically dismissed if some current, reputable researchers are saying otherwise.

[Blight]

I have finally had a chance to evaluate the sources you provided on Wikipedia
where I observed the following key article:

Review of the safety of LHC collisions
John Ellis1, Gian Giudice1, Michelangelo Mangano1, Igor Tkachev2
and Urs Wiedemann1 (LHC Safety Assessment Group)
1 Theory Division, Physics Department, CERN, CH 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland
2 Institute for Nuclear Research of Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow 117312, Russia
Received 26 August 2008
Published 5 September 2008
Online at stacks.iop.org/JPhysG/35/115004

This report was very thorough and timely, and should be the basis for any scientist questioning
the safety of the LHC. Consequently, the validity of the article I shared with you
must be viewed with skepticism by even a non-scientist such as myself. Consequently,
I wish to amend my previous criticisms. As you observed, Wikipedia is a reputable
as well as assessable source of information. (I sometimes take an extreme position to
solicit a more intense and thorough response.) Keep up the good work; we need it!

[caliban]

not a project proposal

[caliban]

Automatic message


This topic has been moved from "Action -> Suggestions & Project Ideas -> Project Ideas" to "Round Table Discussion -> Global Risks".

[robomoon]

Urgently Pleasing Hint to Investors in CERN

As sensed until today you are not publicly stating your permission allowing philosophers to act on behalf of Prof. O. E. Roessler (w. Uml. Rössler)

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=NuGnRf-3W6M

against assets from the LHC. In absence of you I deviate from the norm of a less educated individual to protect any life against an event firmly described on http://lifeboat.com/...its-in#comments as the greatest dangerous endeavor ever launched on the planet and I must assume that your permission has effectively been granted.

Edited by robomoon, 17 May 2011 - 11:58 AM.