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Dairy: The Anti-Nootropic


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#1 Wurzel Bagman

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 10:41 PM


I recently cut out dairy from my diet and have found it to be extremely beneficial. My clogged up sinuses and persistent adult acne went away, my day time fatigue & mild depression is gone, I am able to focus much better, my mood is great and I'm quite motivated.

Nootropics in general seem to be more effective for me as well. The "magic" of piracetam is back :D I think this may be because of the abundance hormones in milk negatively affect the adrenal glands which are needed for piracetam to work well.

I've read about a few studies regarding ADHD and dairy intolerance; one in which 19/20 kids improved by quitting dairy.

There are numerous members here with a wide range of disorders to which they turn to noots for. I challenge anyone and everyone here, healthy or otherwise, to try cutting out dairy! No milk, butter, cheese, whey, chocolate, cookies, anything with milk ingredients, etc.

I have also heard about dairy withdrawal symptoms that may include things like headache and lethargy but they seem to have a relatively short duration (couple days to a week?) but so far i haven't had any withdrawal symptoms!

Please post back and let me know if this works for you too!

Edited by ptamaddict, 11 October 2010 - 10:43 PM.


#2 outsider

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:43 AM

I believe you just stumbled upon the society calcium imbalance.

I increased my magnesium intake to balance things out but I think I will take less dairy products too.

Calcium/magnesium is like yin/yang.

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#3 chrono

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:55 AM

I'm curious about this. I love milk and cheese, and I don't feel like they do anything negative, but I've never forgone them for any significant length of time.

If you'd like to make the discussion a little more interesting, you might take a minute to find that study you heard about.

Edited by chrono, 15 October 2010 - 06:28 AM.
removed response to deleted post

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#4 Wurzel Bagman

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:10 AM

Here's where i read about the study: http://www.scribd.co...n-Milk-and-ADHD

And here are some shocking quotes about dairy:

"Dairy products may play a major role in the development of ALLERGIES, asthma, sleep difficulties, and migraine headaches."

Israel Journal of Medical Sciences 1983;19(9):806-809 Pediatrics 1989;84(4):595-603

"In reality, cow's milk, especially processed cow's milk, has been linked to a variety of health problems, including: mucous production, hemoglobin loss, childhood diabetes, heart disease, atherosclerosis, arthritis, kidney stones, mood swings, depression, irritability, ALLERGIES."

Townsend Medical Letter, May, 1995, Julie Klotter, MD

"At least 50% of all children in the United States are allergic to cow's milk, many undiagnosed. Dairy products are the leading cause of food allergy, often revealed by diarrhea, constipation, and fatigue. Many cases of asthma and sinus infections are reported to be relieved and even eliminated by cutting out dairy."


Chrono, I challenge you to go a week with no dairy! :P

Edited by ptamaddict, 12 October 2010 - 08:12 AM.


#5 NR2(x)

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:15 AM

The sad fact is that this is only the begining of the conditions that are caused by dairy. Many people suffer cognitive damage from dairy. This stuff is nothing but (opiotes? im drunk), which we give to children from almost day one. The difference between a spanish fighting bulling and a brain dead milking cow is opiotes in the milk.
If you start on Milk, you must also eliminate most grains, due to the exact same thing.
Society has selected staple foods that pacify the population for thousands of years, we are still a fedual society.
I have observed my friends who still use dairy, to become slow, both physically and mentally. Its sad.
Eliminate Dairy, Grain,synthetic estrogens and other intentional poisons

#6 distinct

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 01:28 PM

The sad fact is that this is only the begining of the conditions that are caused by dairy. Many people suffer cognitive damage from dairy. This stuff is nothing but (opiotes? im drunk), which we give to children from almost day one. The difference between a spanish fighting bulling and a brain dead milking cow is opiotes in the milk.
If you start on Milk, you must also eliminate most grains, due to the exact same thing.
Society has selected staple foods that pacify the population for thousands of years, we are still a fedual society.
I have observed my friends who still use dairy, to become slow, both physically and mentally. Its sad.
Eliminate Dairy, Grain,synthetic estrogens and other intentional poisons


As bad as dairy may or may not be, I'm fairly certain there is no mastermind at work using the "evil grains" and "opiate dairy" to quell the masses. That's what TV and consumerism are for. The masses quell themselves, and in the heavily Judeo-Christian based society that many of us are from, they have been culturally programmed to seek authority and defer important life decisions to others. :-P

(removes tongue from cheek)

#7 chrono

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 05:22 PM

Removed an Alex Jones video about eugenics; sorry, but that's a little too derailing for this thread.

Chrono, I challenge you to go a week with no dairy! :P

I may rise to this challenge at some point. Right now, my well-being is pretty unpredictable due to chronic pain and the insomnia and mental problems it causes, so I'm not confident that I would be able to interpret the results very well (unless the milk is responsible for my chronic pain, too ;)). I'd also want to do a lot more research into the matter, before I gave up a group that includes some of my favorite foods; is it just milk (as some suggest) or all dairy, is it necessary to abstain entirely or just get below a certain threshold, might there be another cause for this which is addressable (such as the cal/mag issue outsider raises), etc.

Have you tried what the article suggested, to drink some milk once you're off it and see how you react? This was also suggested in this video: Nutrition for Better Mental Performance (before anyone gets tricked into watching it like I did, it's mostly Steven Fowkes talking about his favorite nutritional theories (paleo, anti-milk) without really relating it to cognition in any way). He said to watch a metronome as you drink the milk, and made it sound as if you would absolutely flip out in some way.

Edited by chrono, 12 October 2010 - 06:25 PM.


#8 health_nutty

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 05:25 PM

Just make sure you take a calcium supplement if you go off dairy.

#9 chrono

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:00 PM

OK, I'm having no luck finding any information about this alleged phenomenon, anywhere. The only useful pubmed paper I could find about the mental effects of milk is by Lien do et al (2003), who found that children who drank milk had better short-term memory.

I was also unable to find the Norwegian study the posted article cites; they mention Dr. Kalle Reichelt, perhaps the author, but this person's site has little info except for general milk allergy, and possibility of helpfulness for some along the same lines as a gluten-free diet.

Not that I'm saying it's necessarily untrue; I'm just a little wary of nutritional theories that have less scientific support than the wacky preclinical cognitive enhancers I read about.

Have you tried what the article suggested, to drink some milk once you're off it and see how you react?...He said to watch a metronome as you drink the milk, and made it sound as if you would absolutely flip out in some way.

Thinking about this, I'm not sure if it would really indicate anything, dramatic though it may be. All it would indicate is that milk ingestion is something the body needs time to adjust to, coming up or going down. The pudding in which to find the proof would have to be a careful examination of how one feels without it, possibly through several trials (to eliminate confounding factors).

Edited by chrono, 12 October 2010 - 08:09 PM.


#10 KimberCT

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:06 AM

I never bought into the anti-dairy hype until I actually tried a dairy-free diet for several weeks.  I actually felt quite a bit better.  Unfortunately, my craving for pizza kept getting the better of me.  Fast forward several months.  I had a food allergy panel done and it comes back positive for all the dairy products.  According to the nutritionist who did the allergy test, she quite frequently encounters people who've consumed dairy (or another one, gluten) their whole lives yet they've suddenly developed an allergy to it.

#11 chrono

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 01:17 AM

I never bought into the anti-dairy hype until I actually tried a dairy-free diet for several weeks.  I actually felt quite a bit better.  Unfortunately, my craving for pizza kept getting the better of me.  Fast forward several months.  I had a food allergy panel done and it comes back positive for all the dairy products.  According to the nutritionist who did the allergy test, she quite frequently encounters people who've consumed dairy (or another one, gluten) their whole lives yet they've suddenly developed an allergy to it.

Interesting. Is this test reliable, do you think? Did you feel more or less 'normal' when you went back on the cheese, or was there enough difference with your brief abstinence that it compelled you to get testing done? And are you still eating dairy?

If someone has a dairy allergy, then I can definitely see it affecting cognition, among other things. What I'm more leery of are claims (such as those of Fowkes) that people who can tolerate milk are in the vast minority.

#12 e Volution

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 04:12 AM

DukeNukem has researched dairy quite heavily and has some good posts on it... I beleive the crux of the matter is dairy OK (fine/tolerable) for most people, but the majority of the dairy that ends up on supermarket shelves is utter crap. Raw dairy looks to me much better, as does goat sources of milk/cheese/yoghurt.

The conclusion I have come to is Dairy is neutral at best, but very likely a net-negative if replacing whole foods. Paleo might not be the best non-CR diet for longevity (I certainly think it is!) however one super solid takeaway it is giving us it is that if we weren't consuming it ~10,000+ years ago then it probably isn't good for us. Certainly it should be viewed guilty until proven innocent, and to date regular Dairy has not been cleared to a sufficient level for me to consume it.

I do however have much less a problem with Dairy FAT (thank Dr Kurt Harris for this). Ghee/Butter/Cream, I don't make them a staple, but as long as I avoid the Casein and Lactose I am sleeping easy at night.

Have you tried what the article suggested, to drink some milk once you're off it and see how you react?...He said to watch a metronome as you drink the milk, and made it sound as if you would absolutely flip out in some way.

Thinking about this, I'm not sure if it would really indicate anything, dramatic though it may be. All it would indicate is that milk ingestion is something the body needs time to adjust to, coming up or going down. The pudding in which to find the proof would have to be a careful examination of how one feels without it, possibly through several trials (to eliminate confounding factors).

Yes, but then isn't that just an indication that it is being tolerated and not optimal?

I think anyone really serious about longevity and nutrition should be doing an elimination diet at some point with EVERY food they consume. Grains, Dairy, Nightshades, Seafood, Nuts, everything. I was very healthy and felt fantastic for over a quarter century, but it wasn't until I went on a gluten elimination diet that I realised I run MUCH better without it. On the other hand I have eliminated all dairy for over a month, and upon introducing back dairy FAT I noticed no change in how I "look, feel or perform" so I consume it occasionally.

Edited by chrono, 15 October 2010 - 06:29 AM.
removed response to deleted post


#13 outsider

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:49 AM

Most of the side effects discussed from OP are the same than excess calcium. A glass of milk gives you 300 mg calcium, so if you add some cheese you got yourself a 600 mg calcium you didn't need in the first place.

I moderated myself in the first post but I see the discussion didn't develop like I wished. I spent at least 10-20 hours recently looking for calcium/magnesium related problems.

Calcium gives headache, constipation, insomnia, boost dopamine (short term memory). I supplemented once with 1000 mg calcium and guess what ? I got headache which I never have, could not fall asleep until I took some magnesium.

USA is the society which has the most osteoporosis, guess what ? USA is one of the most calcium heavy consumer. They looked upon society (indigenous) which only got 200 mg calcium from nutrition, guess what, osteoporosis doesn't exist in this society.

And magnesium is important because it makes calcium works in the body, magnesium is nature’s calcium channel blocker etc.

And to get back to milk, I used to drink 2 glass of milk with cheese/yogurt etc. I didn't take any today and I fell better than ever, I only took magnesium. I will add, I fell lighter. I will keep this regime for the next couple weeks and see what happens.

Edit:

Also too much calcium will produce calcification of the body which means calcium deposit on the joint (arthritis), heart, soft tissues, kidney (stone), brain etc.

Edited by outsider, 13 October 2010 - 07:09 AM.


#14 KimberCT

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:49 AM

I never bought into the anti-dairy hype until I actually tried a dairy-free diet for several weeks.  I actually felt quite a bit better.  Unfortunately, my craving for pizza kept getting the better of me.  Fast forward several months.  I had a food allergy panel done and it comes back positive for all the dairy products.  According to the nutritionist who did the allergy test, she quite frequently encounters people who've consumed dairy (or another one, gluten) their whole lives yet they've suddenly developed an allergy to it.

Interesting. Is this test reliable, do you think? Did you feel more or less 'normal' when you went back on the cheese, or was there enough difference with your brief abstinence that it compelled you to get testing done? And are you still eating dairy?

If someone has a dairy allergy, then I can definitely see it affecting cognition, among other things. What I'm more leery of are claims (such as those of Fowkes) that people who can tolerate milk are in the vast minority.


Since the above allergy test and receiving my 23andme results, I've been on a strict GFCF diet (~6 months).  I feel much better.


I have occasionally tested myself by consuming dairy/gluten on a Friday night.  The results are nausea, headache, minor diarrhea followed by several days of fatigue and brainfog.  I still need to test each item individually though.  For example, a spoonful of gluten powder or glass of milk alone.  My previous tests have been a slice of pizza or grinder... which contain both wheat and dairy.



#15 aLurker

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:25 PM

Since the above allergy test and receiving my 23andme results, I've been on a strict GFCF diet (~6 months).  I feel much better.


I have occasionally tested myself by consuming dairy/gluten on a Friday night.  The results are nausea, headache, minor diarrhea followed by several days of fatigue and brainfog.  I still need to test each item individually though.  For example, a spoonful of gluten powder or glass of milk alone.  My previous tests have been a slice of pizza or grinder... which contain both wheat and dairy.



In what way has the 23andme results helped you? I'm asking in general and not only specifically in this case. Seems very intriguing.

#16 KimberCT

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:35 PM

Since the above allergy test and receiving my 23andme results, I've been on a strict GFCF diet (~6 months).  I feel much better.


I have occasionally tested myself by consuming dairy/gluten on a Friday night.  The results are nausea, headache, minor diarrhea followed by several days of fatigue and brainfog.  I still need to test each item individually though.  For example, a spoonful of gluten powder or glass of milk alone.  My previous tests have been a slice of pizza or grinder... which contain both wheat and dairy.



In what way has the 23andme results helped you? I'm asking in general and not only specifically in this case. Seems very intriguing.


It prompted me to try eliminating gluten from my diet as well.  I apparently have all the genes that predispose me to Celiac disease.  It wasn't terribly surprising since autoimmune conditions, including Celiac, are quite common in my family.  I did have an intestinal biopsy done which was negative for Celiac.  Now I'm learning that Celiac often presents in an atypical way... with neurological primary symptoms rather than intestinal destruction.

The 23andme results were well worth the money, especially since I got the $99 sale.   :laugh:

Edited by KimberCT, 13 October 2010 - 12:37 PM.

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#17 medievil

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:52 PM

I went without diary for a few weeks in my ignorant days when i beleived those anti diary sites, did do shit, except making me miss my favorite food.
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#18 health_nutty

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:49 PM

I went without diary for a few weeks in my ignorant days when i beleived those anti diary sites, did do shit, except making me miss my favorite food.


I tried it for a couple of months as well and didn't notice any difference. Now I eat a couple of cups of high quality yogurt a day.

#19 chrono

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:55 PM

Paleo might not be the best non-CR diet for longevity (I certainly think it is!) however one super solid takeaway it is giving us it is that if we weren't consuming it ~10,000+ years ago then it probably isn't good for us.

Sorry, but there is nothing like a super-solid takeaway from the paleo diet. Most of the principles are based on rhetoric, romantic imagery, and a pretty huge number of assumptions—some of them quite tenuous. Most diets you wouldn't think twice about calling a "fad" have had more studies done on them than paleo, at this point. We don't need to argue that in this thread, but read the wikipedia article in its entirety for some dissenting opinions.

Yes, but then isn't that just an indication that it is being tolerated and not optimal?

Possibly, but not necessarily. You could probably perform this same experiment with any number of nutrients or endogenous factors, with similar results. In fact, how about a sudden change to a ketogenic diet? The body strives for regulation, and a certain reaction to a quick change cannot be construed (in and of itself) as negative evidence.


I still need to test each item individually though.  For example, a spoonful of gluten powder or glass of milk alone.  My previous tests have been a slice of pizza or grinder... which contain both wheat and dairy.

Would be very curious about these results, maybe with other forms of dairy too, like a slice of cheese.

Edited by chrono, 15 October 2010 - 06:18 AM.
removed response to deleted post


#20 outsider

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 07:28 AM

Paleo might not be the best non-CR diet for longevity (I certainly think it is!) however one super solid takeaway it is giving us it is that if we weren't consuming it ~10,000+ years ago then it probably isn't good for us.


I would certainly not look at occidental diet and be proud about it. Pesticides, hormones, OGM, additives, dramatic lack of minerals and the problem is, it is difficult to avoid. Any diet in the past would be more healthy. For example 100 years ago there was 50% more magnesium in the diet. Wow.

Not taking my 2 glass of milk seems to do interesting things to me today, improved clarity of thought as of note. It is definitely doing things but I'm a pretty sensible individual so YMMV.

#21 KimberCT

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 01:12 PM

 

I still need to test each item individually though.  For example, a spoonful of gluten powder or glass of milk alone.  My previous tests have been a slice of pizza or grinder... which contain both wheat and dairy.

Would be very curious about these results, maybe with other forms of dairy too, like a slice of cheese.


Tested cheese alone Friday afternoon.  Felt fine for the rest of the day, but awoke a little nauseous Saturday morning followed by some minor diarrhea.  Progressed to some fatigue and increased anxiety.  Sunday morning, very tired and high anxiety.  I had to goto brunch with family.  I kept getting a strong head buzz, similar to a nicotine naive person's first cigarette.  Once I had eaten and began to socialize a bit I began to feel better.  Today, minor anxiety and fatigue.  I anticipate being back to normal by Wednesday.

Overall, it seemed very similar, although less severe, than my previous food challenges which contain both gluten and dairy.



#22 jlspartz

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 07:19 PM

I read scientific reports on dairy tolerance. The intolerance starts between the ages of 4-6 years old depending on ethnicity (asians at 4, caucasians at 6). After that point, 90% of the world's population has an intolerance to it, but the tolerant amount varies per person. They believe that there was a 100% intolerance to it a century ago, but society is starting to build a tolerance for it because of the amount of consumption. Caucasian Americans were 78% intolerant, whereas Native Americas were 99% intolerant. I found it interesting. My wife stopped dairy because of how bad she felt, and she's much better now. I have not tried to quit dairy, but maybe I'll give it a go.

Edited by jlspartz, 18 October 2010 - 07:20 PM.


#23 niner

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 04:07 AM

I read scientific reports on dairy tolerance. The intolerance starts between the ages of 4-6 years old depending on ethnicity (asians at 4, caucasians at 6). After that point, 90% of the world's population has an intolerance to it, but the tolerant amount varies per person. They believe that there was a 100% intolerance to it a century ago, but society is starting to build a tolerance for it because of the amount of consumption. Caucasian Americans were 78% intolerant, whereas Native Americas were 99% intolerant. I found it interesting. My wife stopped dairy because of how bad she felt, and she's much better now. I have not tried to quit dairy, but maybe I'll give it a go.

In Michael Rose's talk (about his Methuselah flies and what they mean for us) at the recent ImmInst conference in Brussels, he talked about the three diet regimes that humans have lived under: Hunter Gatherer (2.5M years(?), more gatherer at first, later more hunter); Agricultural (10K years), and Industrial (100 years). He said that humans adapt to new environments in 30-60 generations. 10,000 years is ~500 generations, which should be plenty of time for deleterious genes to be flushed out if they occur much prior to the end of reproduction, (35 years for women, older for men? Maybe an average of 40?) We clearly haven't had time to adapt to the modern 'industrial' diet. It would appear that during the agricultural period, a lot of humans didn't really drink all that much milk, and tended to stop when young. That would at least fit the milk intolerance that's been described here into an evolutionary paradigm. At least some populations have been drinking milk longer, which would explain why some people tolerate it, but check this out-

Rose made a very interesting point about the relationship between evolutionary pressure and diet. As you move from the start of your reproductive period to the end, the evolutionary pressure against possession of a deleterious gene decreases, when averaged over a population. In fact, because humans aid in raising their children and grandchildren, the pressure to drop deleterious genes actually continues (at a much lower level) somewhat beyond the end of reproduction. The upshot of this is that as you get older, it becomes more important to switch to a paleo diet. Evolution has provided most of us with very good early life adaptations to an agricultural diet, but some of these adaptations begin to fail us later in life, while our ancestral adaptations to a paleo lifestyle, due to the much longer time we had to develop them, are still active in later life. Rose's prescription for attaining a 'natural' version of the 'biological immortality' of his Methuselah flies is to switch to paleo after 40. (Earlier if not Eurasian.) You can certainly start paleo sooner, but it's not as necessary.

If you're in your 20's, you can get away with most anything; certainly an agricultural diet for all but a few of us, and some of us can eat an industrial diet without apparent harm. As you slide through your 30's, you will see things unraveling, as you get fat and your metabolism goes to hell. This described me pretty accurately. As I moved toward a paleo-ish diet over the last few years, the effects were remarkable. My version of paleo, that makes it "-ish", is that I've dropped milk but not cheese, and only cut back on grains, but haven't eliminated them. It seems to be working great at the moment. The question that's on my mind is "will I ultimately have to drop dairy and grains entirely?" I hope not. I suppose the best way to tell would be to try an elimination diet, although that might not tip me off about subtle health differences.
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#24 e Volution

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 04:35 AM

Great post niner, thank you. ^^^ I sure hope you get the time to read that chrono! I think it is fair to say that almost nobody on this forum argues against Paleo in general like you have, just against its applicability to extreme life extension/longevity (a valid stance as the evidence is not clear yet). As such I don't want to argue Paleo with you because your arguments make me think you're not actually all that well read up on it. Sorry to be ad hominem but you attacked my baby ;) Or maybe just myself and niner and a whole host of other incredibly intelligent forum members (not including myself in that description!) must just be easily swayed by "rhetoric, romantic imagery, and ...[tenuous] assumptions".

Paleo might not be the best non-CR diet for longevity (I certainly think it is!) however one super solid takeaway it is giving us it is that if we weren't consuming it ~10,000+ years ago then it probably isn't good for us.

Sorry, but there is nothing like a super-solid takeaway from the paleo diet. Most of the principles are based on rhetoric, romantic imagery, and a pretty huge number of assumptions—some of them quite tenuous. Most diets you wouldn't think twice about calling a "fad" have had more studies done on them than paleo, at this point. We don't need to argue that in this thread, but read the wikipedia article in its entirety for some dissenting opinions.

The Paleo(plus) diet as practised by many members of ImmInst is 100% evidence based no different to any other rigorously discussed topic on the forum.

Edited by e Volution, 19 October 2010 - 04:55 AM.


#25 chrono

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 06:02 AM

^^ You should probably consider that not only your attacks, but all of your support, are ad hominem. I have no taste for such standoff-ish, camp-mentality discussion, so it's just as well that you don't want to argue paleo with me (while you argue paleo with me ;)). And niner's post is indeed excellent, though as I think he'd agree, pretty theoretical (apart from his personal experience)—which, again, was my only point.

I'd be curious to see the "scientific reports" stating that 90% of the world's population over 6 is intolerant to dairy, as I had no luck finding that kind of thing when this thread started.

@KimberCT: thanks for the experiment. I'm surprised it had such a long-lasting effect. You can probably stop doing that to yourself now :-D

Edited by chrono, 19 October 2010 - 08:19 AM.


#26 KimberCT

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 12:25 PM

 

@KimberCT: thanks for the experiment. I'm surprised it had such a long-lasting effect. You can probably stop doing that to yourself now :-D

The bacon & cheddar omelets were totally worth it.  :laugh:




#27 christianbber

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 01:29 PM

Paleo might not be the best non-CR diet for longevity (I certainly think it is!) however one super solid takeaway it is giving us it is that if we weren't consuming it ~10,000+ years ago then it probably isn't good for us.


I would certainly not look at occidental diet and be proud about it. Pesticides, hormones, OGM, additives, dramatic lack of minerals and the problem is, it is difficult to avoid. Any diet in the past would be more healthy. For example 100 years ago there was 50% more magnesium in the diet. Wow.

Not taking my 2 glass of milk seems to do interesting things to me today, improved clarity of thought as of note. It is definitely doing things but I'm a pretty sensible individual so YMMV.

Good God, I've been drinking atleast 1/2 a gallon of milk a day since I was a little kid. When everyone else was drinking water, I'd be chugging milk lol

Maybe thats why I'm 6'4 240lbs.

But i'll defiantly cut it out of my diet and see how it goes.

#28 KimberCT

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:16 PM

Paleo might not be the best non-CR diet for longevity (I certainly think it is!) however one super solid takeaway it is giving us it is that if we weren't consuming it ~10,000+ years ago then it probably isn't good for us.


I would certainly not look at occidental diet and be proud about it.  Pesticides, hormones, OGM, additives, dramatic lack of minerals and the problem is, it is difficult to avoid. Any diet in the past  would be more healthy. For example 100 years ago there was 50% more magnesium in the diet. Wow.

Not taking my 2 glass of milk seems to do interesting things to me today, improved clarity of thought as of note.  It is definitely doing things but I'm a pretty sensible individual so YMMV.

Good God, I've been drinking atleast 1/2 a gallon of milk  a day since I was a little kid. When everyone else was drinking water, I'd be chugging milk lol

Maybe thats why I'm 6'4 240lbs.

But i'll defiantly cut it out of my diet  and see how it goes.


One thing of note... I drank ALOT of milk from childhood until my mid-twenties.  It wasn't until I stopped drinking it for several months (expensive @ 1 gallon per day) and later reintroduced it that I developed an intolerance for it.




#29 SATANICAT

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 11:59 PM

Bah... what's the best substitute for milk that's not BS milk like "Almond milk" or "Soy" or "Rice Milk"? It's rather hard to give up a staple food, and not settle for Almond, Soy, or Rice water.

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#30 rwac

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 12:39 AM

You could use coconut milk.

Edit: diluted cream probably wouldn't be avoiding dairy.

Edited by rwac, 20 October 2010 - 12:41 AM.





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