155 replies to this topic

[aLurker]

Why not combine lysergicaciddiethylamine with fluoxetine? That will go well with AMT, you probably want to get some Bufo Alvarius venom just to be on the safe track. This might be a bit stimulating, therfore I would advice to get some Ketamine which is a well studied and 100% safe pharmaceutical as well. Against libido issues I would recommend to mix silendafil with aminylnitrite and yohimbine.

You forgot the strychnine.

[medievil]

Why not combine lysergicaciddiethylamine with fluoxetine? That will go well with AMT, you probably want to get some Bufo Alvarius venom just to be on the safe track. This might be a bit stimulating, therfore I would advice to get some Ketamine which is a well studied and 100% safe pharmaceutical as well. Against libido issues I would recommend to mix silendafil with aminylnitrite and yohimbine.

lol

[medievil]

So currently i'm down to 20mg of memantine as higher doses appeared to inhibit AMT, didnt take any amt today, tomorrow i'l try a combination of AMT and stimulants and do the naltrexone experiment, as i really need an extra stimulant to effectively eliminate social anxiety.

As for supplements i'm currently only taking curcumin, will probably add in resveratrol in the future and stay with those.

I stopped taking the antihypertensives the last few days because without amphetamine i started to get hypotension and barely did anything else then sleeping all day.

I'm interesting in trying aniracetam with memantine soon.

[Ark]

You excite me so much Medievil(I feel inspired)

[medievil]

Today i'm on 20mg memantine, 500mg curcumin, 7,5mg AMT and dexedrine.

It seems the curcumin abolishes the amp anxiety while also dampening down the amp euphoria on amt, my SA is drastically reduced and i feel relaxed, a pretty new feeling, odd tough my motivation seems less so then just AMT without curcumin.

Its an interesting combo for sure.

And i stopped DAA yesterday, i think it was making me exhausted during the day, inhibited my apetite and made me get an allergic reaction of amphetamine 2 days ago.

I would also say that curcumin is a good bet against minimizing potential toxiticy of AMT.

[Animal]

It's just a coincidence that the primary substances you believe can help you also have recreational potential isn't it?

I think you're in denial of a psychological element to your social anxiety, this is where it originated from, correct? Just throwing as many drugs as possible at the situation will not resolve it with any permanency.

Only being able to relate to people while you're 'up' on a recreational drug means that you can't actually relate to them at all. Believing that you're highly extroverted by nature because when you're 'high' (don't give me any bullshit, AMT even in smaller doses makes you 'high', so does amphetamine) you want to have social company is ridiculous, everyone behaves the same way on AMT or amphetamine, being hypersocial is a classical effect of these drugs.

It seems you equate a lack of anxiety with being 'up' on a substance, because suddenly you become more social. This association makes you dependent on recreational drugs in order to be able to socialise, it also makes your 'extroverted friendships' superficial, and based on you being under the influence of a substance.

Your true self = you high on drugs, actually a common delusion among recreational drug users. You're going to crash and burn in the near future, it's inevitable.

[medievil]

It seems you equate a lack of anxiety with being 'up' on a substance, because suddenly you become more social.

I would disagree since i stay without anxiety when i'm crashed of those substances, and a crash can be depressive and antisocial, still you can be free of anxiety. Also ive mentioned before "high"s arent particurally usefull for my SA, hence all recreational substances except dopamine releasers dont have any benefits.

Being hypersocial is also not something i'm aiming for, i would scare away everyone i would think

I can relate perfectly fine with my friends btw when i'm not on drugs, i just feel exhausted around them and uncomfortable.

I'm actually quite certain dopamine is highly implicated in my anxiety, since 1) my stays gone the whole next day after taking a dopamine releaser, while for others it comes back when te high drops of.
2) I dont respond to nearly all euphoric substances that are miracle cures for others with social anxiety, they make me high and not give a shit, but i dont give a shit about what ppl think of me in the first place.

Offcourse being high on drugs isnt my true self, your just high, thats nobody's true self

I'm glad your so concerned of my wellbeing animal

Edited by medievil, 26 November 2010 - 02:40 PM.

[Animal]

It seems you equate a lack of anxiety with being 'up' on a substance, because suddenly you become more social.

I would disagree since i stay without anxiety when i'm crashed of those substances, and a crash can be depressive and antisocial, still you can be free of anxiety. Also ive mentioned before "high"s arent particurally usefull for my SA, hence all recreational substances except dopamine releasers dont have any benefits.

Being hypersocial is also not something i'm aiming for, i would scare away everyone i would think

I can relate perfectly fine with my friends btw when i'm not on drugs, i just feel exhausted around them and uncomfortable.

I'm actually quite certain dopamine is highly implicated in my anxiety, since 1) my stays gone the whole next day after taking a dopamine releaser, while for others it comes back when te high drops of.
2) I dont respond to nearly all euphoric substances that are miracle cures for others with social anxiety, they make me high and not give a shit, but i dont give a shit about what ppl think of me in the first place.

Offcourse being high on drugs isnt my true self, your just high, thats nobody's true self

I'm glad your so concerned of my wellbeing animal

Well after my brief (and not particularly pleasant) experimentation with AMT; knowing that my experience was likely atypical because of my pharmaceutical regime, I encouraged my friends to experiment with small doses because I had plenty left and didn't intend to use it. The effects of >5 but <10 mg doses was fairly consistent across the three friends who experimented, and they all considered it a sort of mildly euphoric 'high', which had pro-social and energising effects. One of them, who suffers with the sequelae from prolonged paranoid-type schizophrenia, expressed the desire to continue using it every day, but he has a history of self-medicating drug abuse so this was not unexpected. He agreed that psychological addiction would occur rapidly.

One of the other healthy individuals said that they would consider occasional use, but certainly not daily use, as they commented on unpleasant but mild after effects which indicated to them the health risks, and that they believed this would be highly psychologically addictive.

The other healthy individual stated that they did not believe the effects to be psychologically healthy and that the prolonged 'high' began to make them feel a malaise and longing for a return to sobriety. They said they would not do it again.

All mentioned mild-moderate pupil dilation and mild bruxism at some point during the 'peak' of the 'high'.

This all indicates to me that AMT is certainly not a substance to be used daily, and personally I will not be touching the substance again. We all agreed that it is quite clearly a potent research chemical, and not something that anyone could claim to be 'safe' for regular use.

I would like you to cite some (any) evidence for your claim that it has a history of 20 years of clinical use for depression. Because all the evidence I have seen indicates that its use was discontinued less then a decade after it's introduction when the USSR finally got round to assessing it's safety profile. I would also like to remind you that many known neurotoxic substances have been used temporarily in commercial/clinical roles before being withdrawn when long term effects were recognised. This is absolutely no indication of safety, especially when the practising country is the USSR.

What your continued daily (ab)use of this substance indicates to me, especially considering that you combine it with amphetamine, is that you really don't give a shit about long term safety, recovery or remission. You're just after a pro-social 'high' where you can be buzzed daily without worrying about tolerance. Because otherwise you can't be arsed socialising, and your anxiety stems from the fact you feel uncomfortable in another persons presence when you're unresponsive and insipid. But when you're 'up' you're so much more interesting.

Not all euphoric substances have pro-social effects, so obviously it's the psychostimulants that you find most enjoyable socially. Recreational drug abusers always have a preference for a particular kind of high, the fact that you're into uppers doesn't indicate anything about a dopamine deficiency. Maybe freebase cocaine would eliminate your anxiety!? Therefore you'd simply be using it therapeutically if you decided on a daily habit, right?

Amphetamine and AMT are intoxicating, they involve a 'high' regardless of whether it involves full euphoria, and a pro-social element is always present. Your constant claims that you don't want a buzz are utter nonsense, I mean you combine these two drugs of abuse for fuck sake.

If you're comfortable only being able to socialise when you're up on recreational drugs then fine, but that is not something that any person actually interested in recovery would accept. You're fucking your brain up and you don't seem to care, so why should I?

[medievil]

[quote]Well after my brief (and not particularly pleasant) experimentation with AMT; knowing that my experience was likely atypical because of my pharmaceutical regime, I encouraged my friends to experiment with small doses because I had plenty left and didn't intend to use it. The effects of >5 but <10 mg doses was fairly consistent across the three friends who experimented, and they all considered it a sort of mildly euphoric 'high', which had pro-social and energising effects. One of them, who suffers with the sequelae from prolonged paranoid-type schizophrenia, expressed the desire to continue using it every day, but he has a history of self-medicating drug abuse so this was not unexpected. He agreed that psychological addiction would occur rapidly.
[/quote]
Well yeah it definatly causes a high, i never claimed it didnt, i did claim that selank inhibit the euphoria while leaving the anxiolytic effects.

[quote]I would like you to cite some (any) evidence for your claim that it has a history of 20 years of clinical use for depression. Because all the evidence I have seen indicates that its use was discontinued less then a decade after it's introduction when the USSR finally got round to assessing it's safety profile. I would also like to remind you that many known neurotoxic substances have been used temporarily in commercial/clinical roles before being withdrawn when long term effects were recognised. This is absolutely no indication of safety, especially when the practising country is the USSR.[/quote]
Someone is getting all research papers for me, allready got one thats posted above.

[quote]What your continued daily (ab)use of this substance indicates to me, especially considering that you combine it with amphetamine, is that you really don't give a shit about long term safety, recovery or remission. You're just after a pro-social 'high' where you can be buzzed daily without worrying about tolerance. Because otherwise you can't be arsed socialising, and your anxiety stems from the fact you feel uncomfortable in another persons presence when you're unresponsive and insipid. But when you're 'up' you're so much more interesting.[/quote]
I certainly do give a shit about long term safety, i beleive neurotoxoticy is minimal because monoamine caused oxidative stress will be minimal in therapeutic doses and there's no hyperthermai going on (if we for example abolish hypertheramia in MDMA the neurotoxiticy disappears).

I'm not looking for the high, i'm looking after the anxiolytic effects, i hope its not too hard to understand that someone wants to fix he's anxiety? .

Otherwise i cant be arsed socialising? I certainly do want to socialise and before my mate (that now has a girlfriend and a kid) moved to a differend town we were there every evening with a bunch of guys, while social contact is uncomfortable for me, i definatly wanted to go out with them when they were planning something.

I'm not really unresponsive either, i'm good at "acting" like i'm enjoying the convo's, i just feel really uncomfortable aroud them.

[quote]
Not all euphoric substances have pro-social effects, so obviously it's the psychostimulants that you find most enjoyable socially. Recreational drug abusers always have a preference for a particular kind of high, the fact that you're into uppers doesn't indicate anything about a dopamine deficiency. Maybe freebase cocaine would eliminate your anxiety!? Therefore you'd simply be using it therapeutically if you decided on a daily habit, right? [/quote]
Offcourse being into uppers doesnt indicate a dopamine defiency, i never claimed that. And no i wont use those drugs therapeuticall.

[quote]Amphetamine and AMT are intoxicating, they involve a 'high' regardless of whether it involves full euphoria, and a pro-social element is always present. Your constant claims that you don't want a buzz are utter nonsense, I mean you combine these two drugs of abuse for fuck sake. [/quote]
I certainly dont want a buzz of my therapeutic meds, i want them to fix my anxiety, why i combine them i explained before, AMT on its own isnt enough to fix my social anxiety, and why i dont want a buzz i explained before too, it destroys my motivation, it will make me listen music all day or other random shit when i need to do more important stuff, some ppl find a life more important then buzzing all day.
[quote]If you're comfortable only being able to socialise when you're up on recreational drugs then fine, but that is not something that any person actually interested in recovery would accept. You're fucking your brain up and you don't seem to care, so why should I? [quote]
I dont see much more options for me, besides that my ADHD is really severe and the thing that works the best for it is AMT, better then amphetamine, the combination puts all symptons in remission, and today i found out that there only was a slight mood boost with curcumin, i wasnt high at all, wich is good i dont care i dont want to get high of amp or AMT, if i want to get high i'l take some GBL, mdma in the weekend or whatever... but never my therapeutic drugs.

I could look into CBT, but i dont beleive that without fixing my ADHD/SA first i can get much benefit out of it.

It also seems obvious that when combining 2 substances like this i would use lower doses of both.

Your running on alot of assumptions animal, but i assume convincing you is as hard as convincing those dilusional individuals that only want a high?

[medievil]

But feel free to recommend alternatives to amphetamine, i often take breaks so i can go back to my baseline state, i can allways try out new stuff out there.

[FunkOdyssey]

I see Animal's customary practice of assuming the very, very worst about anyone decides to take a drug with abuse potential is still going strong. When he runs out of targets on ImmInst, there are still millions of children across the United States taking psychostimulants for ADHD. He'll stay busier than a cat trying to bury shit on a marble floor.

[medievil]

I know why curcumin is dampening down amp euphoria, its most likely related by curumin's modulation of CREB activity, creb plays a major role in drug addiction, sensitization, tolerance and reward. I beleive curcumin has some major potential for drug tolerance if it indeed modulates creb in all relevant pathways, basicly NMDA antagonists work for tolerance by blocking changes in creb mediated trough the NMDA pathway.

Creb activation has also been directly corrolated with the reward you get out of cocaine.

Edited by medievil, 28 November 2010 - 07:07 AM.

[Animal]

I see Animal's customary practice of assuming the very, very worst about anyone decides to take a drug with abuse potential is still going strong. When he runs out of targets on ImmInst, there are still millions of children across the United States taking psychostimulants for ADHD. He'll stay busier than a cat trying to bury shit on a marble floor.

It's human nature to pursue such activities which offer the greatest hedonic reward, unfortunately drug abuse is one which requires the minimal of effort.

Besides, Medieval freely admits to his recreational abuse of both AMT and amphetamine, often concurrently it seems. Both of which he obtains through legally dubious channels. You have absolutely no experience and limited knowledge of AMT; so your self-righteousness is based wholly on ignorance. My irritation is based on the denial that he exhibits in his continued (and indefinite) use of the substance/s by believing it is utterly for therapeutic purposes and will have no physiological repercussions. My assumptions are based on significant experience both personally, socially and professionally with the practice of substance abuse, so do not think I have some sort of vendetta against recreational drug users in general. I think it is important to recognise why you are taking a substance however.

I also think it is irresponsible of Medieval to recommend AMT as a therapeutic panacea for all psychological woes on many forums, including this one, since some more impressionable (or desperate) members will readily self-administer any substance that has such enthusiastic endorsement, regardless of how misinformed and speculative it is.

I do not 'target' people, with regards to Medieval I think he recognises that this is not personal. Beyond this forum and the people I care about I don't really give a shit, I'm not on some crusade here. But that is this forums purpose, to allow disparate individuals to interact and express opinion. It is a recreational activity for me in many ways, yet this forum can be very informative and I wish to support that. I do not believe that disputing an individuals claimed use and advocacy of a potentially addictive and detrimental substance is excessive or unwarranted. There is a reason why AMT can only be sold legally as 'plant food'.

[medievil]

Animal, your completely missing the point of this thread, i dont think you have an idea how impairing ADHD and social anxiety can be on someone's life.

You of all people should know that you dont need to put togheter a regime to get buzzed, ive been taking GBL on and off on a regular basis since 2008, good buzz but it doesnt do any favors for my social anxiety or ADHD, adding in amphetamine is easy too and it gets you buzzed, unfortionally all that euphoria doesnt do my SA or ADHD any favors, because on amp id rather spend my time home listening to music all day, it doesnt fix my lack of motivation, if i only had ADHD i could get tolerant to the euphoria to enjoy the anti ADHD effects, but unfortionally fixing SA is also a big issue for me and i would get tolerant to that too.

Because of my lack of motivation/concentration and impulsivity i ended up doing stupid shit wich made me end up with a criminal record wich makes it even harder to get a job, and the jobs i can get arent very social anxiety friendly.

So i wanted to build a regime wich fixes my ADHD/social anxiety so i can get my life togheter and also be able to enjoy spending with my friends.

So i tried out AMT, and while it did also give me euphoria (wich i could counteract with selank) for the first time i actually felt motivated to get important shit done, instead of stressing the fuck out even for doing something simple, i actually did it, i could concentrate, i wasnt as impulsive anymore, my SA was significantly down it only needed an extra push so i tried adding in amphetamine, unfortionally the amp abolished all motivational effects i got from AMT due to excess euphoria so i tried to find a way to block the excess euphoria while keeping the therapeutic effects and curcumin seemed to do a quite good job at that.

My irritation is based on the denial that he exhibits in his continued (and indefinite) use of the substance/s by believing it is utterly for therapeutic purposes and will have no physiological repercussions.

Actually animal i take GBL regurally every evening purely for recreational purposes and i am physiologically addicted to it, amphetamine and AMT are very physiologically addictive if you keep on taking them without any tolerance to the euphoria, but i simply cant get my life togheter like that, hence why i stated a few times that i wanted to minimalize the euphoria while keeping the therapeutic effects, thats the whole reason i started this thread.

I actually respects animal opinion, because many of us have been there, i remember me claiming i was taking GBL for anhedonia i did have anhedonia but i was only taking it for the euphoria offcourse, now i would want to take amp and amt for the euphoria, but it simply doesnt help me put my life togheter, so i do want them for therapeutic reasons.

I suspect you think i was only joking when i was telling you selank inhibited AMT's euphoria leaving me with a (below baseling mood at first untill i lowered the dose a normal mood) and yet i still took the combo for 2 months, and also my posts about trying to inhibit the amt/amp euphoria?

Id also like to ask wheter you know any people with ADHD that are very impulsive and have severe motivational problems that take modafinil for that and how it helps, as i'm looking for something to take on my regular breaks (feel free to add in a new manifesto about my addictive personality and what kind of dilusional individual i am )

Edited by medievil, 29 November 2010 - 10:20 PM.

[Ark]

I got Semax Selank and Nootropil coming in the mail. Have you had any experience with these Nootropics?!

[medievil]

Ark, srry dude for not replying to your PM's yet i'l do it in a few minutes.

I have experience with selank, on is own it has a antidepressive and anxiolytic effect, pretty mild tough (but in my case only stimulants are highly effective against my anxiety) i think its definatly worth a try.

It does alter the response to several substances, generally inhibits the subjective feel while still alowing the other benefits, the reason behind that i have no idea.

[medievil]

Currently im taking the following stuff:

Curcumin
Methoxetamine
AMT

I'm planning to possibly add the following supplements:
Resveratrol
Ecklonia cava
EGCG
Rhodiola

I believe those look the most promosing for health.

For social anxiety i only need to add a stimulant and i'm set, il mainly be using 3FMC as i find amphetamine to recreational added on top of this, id still be using amp sometimes but that would be mostly for recreation! Need to find a more therapeutic regime first.

[medievil]

I think curcumin changed my response to AMT, it lost its anti anhedonia/rewarding effects, altough i still get the full OCD and SA benefits i used to before, it doesnt seem as motivating as before tough, but adding a stim on top should solve this.

I kinda prefer my response to it right now as the combo with stimulants before felt "dirty", i never really liked the combo of amt and amp.

Edited by medievil, 09 February 2011 - 01:30 PM.

[Justchill]

I think curcumin changed my response to AMT, it lost its anti anhedonia/rewarding effects, altough i still get the full OCD and SA benefits i used to before, it doesnt seem as motivating as before tough, but adding a stim on top should solve this.

I kinda prefer my response to it right now as the combo with stimulants before felt "dirty", i never really liked the combo of amt and amp.

So, how are you doing?

I recommand to drop the speed and the GBL, GHB as those drugs cause SA, I think. They fuck up your brain and you become anxious over years. I think that has done it with me. However, your case is much worse.

Try to find a healty regime here on the forum, using only herbs and nootropics and other supps. I found piracetam helping me with confidence and good mood.

Cheers !

[medievil]

I'm good, not been updating this thread much, you can follow me on sas and mind and muscle.

In my case my social anxiety is connected to my ADHD and only amphetamine can cure me of it, no herbs, no alcohol, no other supplements, no exposure, no opiates, no benzo's etc you name it.

Ive outlined here why i beleive dopaminergics are the best treatment for sa:
http://www.socialanx...-anxiety-99183/

As for GHB, it is indeed neurotoxic, however that be prevented with nmda antagonists.

For some meds like this are the key, for others supplements, for others a new diet, for others exposure, i beleive in all treatments but also thats is HIGHLY individually dependent.

Amphetamine is very addictive in my case, so i have to use it carefully with possible adjuncts that can help this, thx for your suggestions, you make a good point, but those things arent the key for everyone.

[medievil]

Where's animal? He doesnt post here much anymore? Even tough he often didnt agree i did apreciate he's posts sometimes.

[medievil]

Where can i find the link of alurker's lovestory with nicotine btw? Hows the relationship going?

[Rational Madman]

Where can i find the link of alurker's lovestory with nicotine btw? Hows the relationship going?

I last talked to him before Christmas, which was a conversation in which I provided him advice that was exceedingly ill-thought. So I think that either he found satisfactory relief for his condition of chronic fatigue, or he decided to seek solace elsewhere.

[medievil]

Good to post here again man, haha interesting to see how everyone is doing.

[Rational Madman]

Yeah, it seems like many of us remain standing in spite of ourselves. Anyway, great to see you back!

[medievil]

Latest regime:

DXM untill ive got memantine back for tolerance issues.
Acamprosate augment memantine/DXM aid addictive personality and has unexpectedly helped my OCD.
Valium, temporary untill ive got another agent for dexedrine anxiety.
Dexedrine social anxiety relief, not much effect on ADHD
GBL for recreation.

Will add soon:

AMT for ADHD relief
Wellbutrin to aid adhd relief and help addictive personality
Oxcarbazepine for mood stability and aid addictive personality.

Edited by medievil, 18 March 2011 - 01:16 PM.

[aLurker]

Hi guys.

Rol, I've always appreciated your suggestions, however I didn't follow through on that advice you gave me before Christmas anyway so don't worry about it. I enjoyed your recent post in the Alpha7 thread, nice list there.

Medi, the last time I tried nicotine the effects didn't last for more than a couple of hours or so. I haven't really pushed for a psych visit yet since a comprehensive evaluation takes about a week or so of full time investigation and I'm kind of reluctant to take such a long break from my studies at the university. Perhaps it would be worth if from a productivity stand point though, not sure. I haven't been as productive as I would've liked to the last few months so I definitely have a long way to go. I probably should push harder for an evaluation but I'm (ironically enough) procrastinating.

Right now I'm having modest results with ALCAR, zinc, curcumin, bacopa, ashwagandha, lots of green tea, schisandra and deprenyl. Some beneficial effects from this regimen but it doesn't do much for my motivational issues or procrastination. I'm probably going to give nicotine another shot, hopefully it works better with my current regimen than it did before, the curcumin might make a difference. Might be wishful thinking though and perhaps I really need to step it up with some modafinil or serious stims.

Medi, how about topping of that mountain of drugs with some therapy? :p

[medievil]

I do beleive in therapy, as social exposure, gaining social skills, gaining confidence is absolutely essential for full recovery, ive gained all those things in the past, whats left is a pharmaceutical solution. I used to go out daily with friends for months, and i had the social skills, but the problem of feeling terrible around others remains.

My ADHD needs proper treatment for sure, i allways kept getting myself in trouble such as selling drugs and other stupid shit, while completely unable to study anything at all or participate in schools, not saying i'm proud of it, but i dont have just some concentration problems.

[Ark]

i kno you know MidEvil but i advise against DXM.

[medievil]

i kno you know MidEvil but i advise against DXM.

Its only temporary untill ive got memantine back, i cant take it with amt anyway due to its serotogenic property's.

Thx for the advice

Edited by medievil, 19 March 2011 - 09:45 AM.