50 replies to this topic

[niner]

How about Luteolin or LDN?

Those sound interesting, although I wouldn't want to try LDN on a kid. Is there any rationale or theory behind either of these, or is it more like just a thing to try?

[PWAIN]

Another thing that I wanted to bring up was the unusually high level of uridine in autistic children, probably due to poor methylation. There's been a lot of interest in uridine around here of late, but this suggests that it would be a bad idea for people with Aspergers.

And yet one of the supposed exciting things with Uridine was that it was supposed to help people with OCD which is one of the things in the spectrum.....

[Logan]

How about Luteolin or LDN?

Those sound interesting, although I wouldn't want to try LDN on a kid. Is there any rationale or theory behind either of these, or is it more like just a thing to try?

They both reduce inflammation in microglial cells and an excessive amount of microglial cells, which I believe is believed to be an issue in many conditions, including Autism spectrum disorders. Luteolin, I believe, stimulates dopamine, so this could have a beneficial effect on mood and focus. You already knew this though. There are more thorough explanations for why both Luteolin and LDN could possibly be beneficial for ASD's on the internet. I do find it interesting that both luteolin and LDN do several very similar things that lead to potential therapeutic benefit.

BTW, I've been on LDN for a little over 2 months now fow what was believed to possibly be fibromyalgia, or some type of autoimmune condition. I also hope my brain recovers significantly from what it has been through over the last 4 years of my struggle with bipolar and bipolar treatments. Severe chronic episodes of bipolar alone are enough to do quite a bit of damage and leave someone cognitively impaired beyond what they ever imagined in a fairly short period of time-this is after eventual stabilization, even when one is doing much much better.

[Hebbeh]

How about Luteolin or LDN?

Those sound interesting, although I wouldn't want to try LDN on a kid. Is there any rationale or theory behind either of these, or is it more like just a thing to try?

They both reduce inflammation in microglial cells and an excessive amount of microglial cells, which I believe is believed to be an issue in many conditions, including Autism spectrum disorders. Luteolin, I believe, stimulates dopamine, so this could have a beneficial effect on mood and focus. You already knew this though. There are more thorough explanations for why both Luteolin and LDN could possibly be beneficial for ASD's on the internet. I do find it interesting that both luteolin and LDN do several very similar things that lead to potential therapeutic benefit.

BTW, I've been on LDN for a little over 2 months now fow what was believed to possibly be fibromyalgia, or some type of autoimmune condition. I also hope my brain recovers significantly from what it has been through over the last 4 years of my struggle with bipolar and bipolar treatments. Severe chronic episodes of bipolar alone are enough to do quite a bit of damage and leave someone cognitively impaired beyond what they ever imagined in a fairly short period of time-this is after eventual stabilization, even when one is doing much much better.

Are you sure about luteolin stimulating...or increasing dopamine? Any studies or references? I'm very interested in this as I've shyed away from luteolin due to reports of luteolin increasing dopamine reuptake which in effect would lower dopamine if true...and would like to know how lutelin really impacts dopamine metabolism.

[Logan]

How about Luteolin or LDN?

Those sound interesting, although I wouldn't want to try LDN on a kid. Is there any rationale or theory behind either of these, or is it more like just a thing to try?

They both reduce inflammation in microglial cells and an excessive amount of microglial cells, which I believe is believed to be an issue in many conditions, including Autism spectrum disorders. Luteolin, I believe, stimulates dopamine, so this could have a beneficial effect on mood and focus. You already knew this though. There are more thorough explanations for why both Luteolin and LDN could possibly be beneficial for ASD's on the internet. I do find it interesting that both luteolin and LDN do several very similar things that lead to potential therapeutic benefit.

BTW, I've been on LDN for a little over 2 months now fow what was believed to possibly be fibromyalgia, or some type of autoimmune condition. I also hope my brain recovers significantly from what it has been through over the last 4 years of my struggle with bipolar and bipolar treatments. Severe chronic episodes of bipolar alone are enough to do quite a bit of damage and leave someone cognitively impaired beyond what they ever imagined in a fairly short period of time-this is after eventual stabilization, even when one is doing much much better.

Are you sure about luteolin stimulating...or increasing dopamine? Any studies or references? I'm very interested in this as I've shyed away from luteolin due to reports of luteolin increasing dopamine reuptake which in effect would lower dopamine if true...and would like to know how lutelin really impacts dopamine metabolism.

Hmmm..Well, that would mean that it stimulates dopamine, but may deplete future stores. It looks like Luteolin is believed to be a dopamine transporter activator. This may be different than a reuptake increaser, I'm not exactly sure though. I believe that luteolin functions like several other bioflavanoids in that it is a COMT inhibitor. This would mean that it inhibits the enzymes that degrade catecholamines like dopamine. If this is the case, it appears that Luteolin has neuroprotective potential and is not something that will deplete dopamine stores. Just google "luteolin dopamine" to find out more about luteolin and it's potential impact on dopamine.

[Now]

Lithium is interesting, but is it not dangerous to take without monitoring plasma concentrations?

It's safe if you are just trying to normalize blood levels. You would probably only need a milligram or two, which is hundreds of times less than the amounts that are used therapeutically in bipolar conditions. There's a milligram of lithium in Vimmortal. I take a quarter of a Doctor's Best 5mg Lithium Orotate tablet daily.

Thanks Niner,

I can't find a lithium-supplement in my country, so I have to order it from eBay or another international seller. My diet is rich in grains and vegetables (primary dietary sources of lithium) but unfortunately the estimated dietary Li intake of the nearest country (Germany) is low (326-406 μg).

I have bought a whey-supplement to increase my tryptophan and phenylalanine intake. There is also some evidence that whey (because it contains cysteine) can increase cellular glutathione levels a bit, so that's a nice extra benefit.

[Just Kelly]

What about N acetyl cysteine for autism? It raises glutathione...

[niner]

What about N acetyl cysteine for autism? It raises glutathione...

 

This has been looked at, and it appears to be helpful.

[nootist]

Among my noot research/testing collaborators are two autistic people, both of whom have OCD.  Both responded quite well to NAC as an OCD treatment, and benefits seemed like they might extend beyond the realm of OCD.  They just began testing fasoracetam, to see if mGluR_2/3 alone will do the job, or if it's more an antioxidant effect.

 

The only gripe I ever hear from them about NAC, is that the effects usually seem to diminish after a few months, so cycling may be necessary for some users.  (It tastes bad, too, but that's not hard to deal with.)

Edited by nootist, 22 September 2015 - 06:53 PM.

[Ark]

http://www.scienceda...medium=facebook

[stephen_b]

One safe supplement to try is glutamine. Many kids on the spectrum I believe have gut issues, and glutamine is important for digestive system epithelium cell metabolism.

[nootist]

One safe supplement to try is glutamine. Many kids on the spectrum I believe have gut issues, and glutamine is important for digestive system epithelium cell metabolism.

 

Personally, I'd want to look over some of the issues involved more before I'd try that.  Glutamine passes the BBB.  Excess glutamine is found in the brains of most people on the spectrum, and is regarded as a bad thing. 

 

J Child Adolesc Psychopharmacol. 2015 May;25(4):314-22. doi: 10.1089/cap.2014.0112. Epub 2015 Apr 28.
Relationship among Glutamine, γ-Aminobutyric Acid, and Social Cognition in Autism Spectrum Disorders.
Cochran DM1, Sikoglu EM, Hodge SM, Edden RA, Foley A, Kennedy DN, Moore CM, Frazier JA.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:

An imbalance of excitatory and inhibitory neurotransmission in autism spectrum disorder (ASD) has been proposed. We compared glutamate (Glu), glutamine (Gln), and γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) levels in the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) of 13 males with ASD and 14 typically developing (TD) males (ages 13-17), and correlated these levels with intelligence quotient (IQ) and measures of social cognition.
METHODS:

Social cognition was evaluated by administration of the Social Responsiveness Scale (SRS) and the Reading the Mind in the Eyes Test (RMET). We acquired proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy ((1)H-MRS) data from the bilateral ACC using the single voxel point resolved spectroscopy sequence (PRESS) to quantify Glu and Gln, and Mescher-Garwood point-resolved spectroscopy sequence (MEGA-PRESS) to quantify GABA levels referenced to creatine (Cr).
RESULTS:

There were higher Gln levels (p=0.04), and lower GABA/Cre levels (p=0.09) in the ASD group than in the TD group. There was no difference in Glu levels between groups. Gln was negatively correlated with RMET score (rho=-0.62, p=0.001) and IQ (rho=-0.56, p=0.003), and positively correlated with SRS scores (rho=0.53, p=0.007). GABA/Cre levels were positively correlated with RMET score (rho=0.34, p=0.09) and IQ (rho=0.36, p=0.07), and negatively correlated with SRS score (rho=-0.34, p=0.09).
CONCLUSIONS:

These data suggest an imbalance between glutamatergic neurotransmission and GABA-ergic neurotransmission in ASD. Higher Gln levels and lower GABA/Cre levels were associated with lower IQ and greater impairments in social cognition across groups.

→ source (external link)

 

I also noticed these possibly relevant warnings, at the University of Maryland Medical Center:

"Pediatric

For children 10 years and younger: DO NOT give glutamine to a child unless your pediatrician recommends it as part of a complete amino acid supplement."

 

and

 

"People who have psychiatric disorders, or who have a history of seizures, should use caution when considering supplementation with glutamine. Some researchers feel that taking glutamine may worsen these conditions."

 

Lately I'd pondered whether anecdotal evidence that a gluten-free diet helped some on the spectrum, might be unrelated to the lack of gluten per se, but to the decrease in dietary glutamic acid, and/or by being more ketogenic, since that might help with seizures.  Pure speculation on my part, admittedly.

 

That said, it's in all meat and dairy products, legumes, and other foods, plus is synthesized by the human body, so there's not much chance of avoiding it.

Edited by nootist, 29 September 2015 - 06:42 AM.

[kurdishfella]

35 Elevated serotonin levels in autism might also be related to defects in serotonin receptors17,36 resulting from an autoimmune reaction in the brain,37 which may explain the high serotonin levels observed in autistic patients and the subsequent elevated SERT levels.

 

 

[Ames]

With athe acknowledgement that this is an ancient thread and the OP is not likely a participant on this forum anymore, and the kid in question is now twelve years old but that others who search on this forum may find answers useful at this point in time:

 

Autism isn't well enough understood, let alone the supplementation to assist with it (the concept itself is highly questionable imo), to be able to decide on supplements to give a two year old (or any child). You aren't going to cure it no matter what you do, and are unlikely to help it. In fact, in my opinion the potential for harm for his already struggling but still developing mind is greater than any potential to help.

 

Allow the doctors to continue to assess the child and prescribe any needed medication. If the child is able to choose supplements when they are an adult, then they can.

 

 

Edited by Ames, 10 August 2020 - 10:20 PM.

[lemon_]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6204368/

 

https://medicalxpres...ell-autism.html

 

 

 

Off the top of my head, fasting 

 

https://selfhacked.c...tor-inhibitors/

[odder_sea]

Trimethylglycine, aka TMG or Betaine.

 

There is a strong link between Methylation gene mutations and Autism. My working theory is that a lowered ability to methylate folate into active form by the mother impacts neural tube development, resulting in the functional cognitive issues observed in the autistic. 

 

These methylation gene mutations are likely inherited by the child.

 

 

TMG in the several gram range has been shown in double blind, placebo controlled studies to reduce autistic behaviors and improve cognition in those with autism. 

 

A quality methylated b vitamin complex would be wise. Furthermore, the Mr. Happy stack, using Algal DHA (I'd reccomend against Fish based for those with autism due to mercury), Methyl B Vitamins, Uridine, and choline, would probably be incredibly effective due to it's multi prolonged support for methylation, inflammation, and neural repair.

 

Sulphoraphane was shown in a double blind, placebo controlled trial to improve autistic behaviors. Cruciferous vegetables generally, and broccoli sprouts specifically are likely to be effective. Moringa may be effective due to a compound structurally similar to sulforaphane.

 

I suspect that several of the commonly used brain enhancement herbs would be worth trying, such as Lion's Mane, Bacopa, Ginkgo, Ginseng, Gotu Kola, Coffee Fruit, Blueberries, Holy Basil, Sage, Curcumin, etc.

 

Active form Vitamin A (retinol palmitate) seems to improve autistic functioning. Vitamin A is similarly important to neural tube development and repair.

 

 

P.S. Sorry for the rambling nature, I'll try to cite and organize when I have more time.

Edited by odder_sea, 16 September 2020 - 04:47 PM.

[mccoy]

Vitamin D, sulphoraphane, are supplements which have been studied, for example:

 

 

 

 

NAC s administered alone or in combination with risperidal (I believe with the intent to keep the risperidal dosage lower, diminishing its collateral effects)

 

 

 

I experimented on my boy (excessive irritability and aggressive behaviour) the combo: TMG+Magnesium+B6, at the beginning with apparently good results, but after he had a seizure I was in doubt if the B6 megadoses might have been the cause. 

I wrote about the experiment in another thread. 

 

My advise in critical conditions is to try as much as possible with supplements before falling back on the usual antipsychotics, which can have very detrimental effects. 

 

The effects of risperidal and later aripiprazole on my son was that in one year he gained 57 kg of weight. I had to deliver him to an institution lest he became uncontrollably obese. In the institution he lost 70 kg of weight in two years but his behaviour is far worse when at home. 

 

That's a problem which I'm trying to figure out, a pretty hard one.

 

 

[mccoy]

Sorry but I realized that I cannot paste images in this forum, I'm going to paste the text of the works I was referring to (just examples of the literature):

 

 

Vitamin D levels in children

and adolescents with autism

Esma S¸engenc¸1 , Ertugrul Kıykım2 and

Sema Saltik3

Abstract

Objective: This study aimed to investigate the relationship between autism spectrum disorder

(ASD) and vitamin D levels in children and adolescents.

Methods: We measured serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25-OHD) levels in 1529 patients with

ASD aged 3 to 18 years, without any additional chronic diseases. Levels of 25-OHD were compared

according to sex, age (<11 or 11 years), and birth season. Additionally, laboratory

parameters (calcium, phosphorus, alkaline phosphatase, and 25-OHD) of 100 selected patients

with ASD were compared with those of the healthy control group.

Results: Vitamin D deficiency or insufficiency was found in approximately 95% of all patients.

Levels of 25-OHD in adolescent patients with ASD aged 11 to 18 years were significantly lower

than those in patients aged younger than 11 years. In the 100 selected patients with ASD, mean

serum 25-OHD levels were significantly lower and alkaline phosphatase levels were higher compared

with those in healthy children.

Conclusion: Our study suggests a relationship between vitamin D and ASD in children.

Monitoring vitamin D levels is crucial in autistic children, especially adolescents, to take protective

measures and treat this condition early.

 

 

Sulforaphane from Broccoli Reduces

Symptoms ofAutism:AFollow-up Case Series

from a Randomized Double-blind Study

Rhoda Lynch*,1, Eileen L Diggins, BA1, Susan L Connors, MD1,

Andrew W Zimmerman, MD1,2,3,4,5, Kanwaljit Singh, MD, MPH1,

Hua Liu, MS, PhD6,7, Paul Talalay, MD6,7, and

Jed W Fahey, MS, ScD6,7,8,9

Abstract

Introduction: Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) affects 1 in 68 children, is characterized by impaired social interaction and

communication as well as restricted or repetitive behaviors, and varies widely with respect to its causes and presentations.

There are no validated pharmacologic treatments for the core symptoms of ASD. The social, medical, and economic burdens

of ASD on families and caregivers are profound. We recently showed in a small clinical trial that sulforaphane (SF) from

broccoli sprouts could significantly reduce the behavioral symptoms of ASD.

Methods: After we completed the intervention phase of the original trial (2011–2013), many caregivers used over-thecounter

dietary SF supplements in order to attempt to maintain improvements similar to those noted during the intervention.

We periodically followed the progress of study participants through the summer of 2016.

Results: Families of 16 of the 26 subjects who received SF as part of the original study responded to requests for further

information. Of these subjects, 6 did not continue taking SF supplements after the study. Nine of the 16 subjects are still

taking an SF supplement and a 10th planned to. We present the edited testimonials of their caregivers in this case series.

Conclusions: Many parents and caregivers articulated the positive effects of SF, both during the intervention phase and in

the ensuing 3 years reported herein. These observations may contribute to understanding ASD and to treatments that may

alleviate some of its symptoms. Diet- and supplement-based therapies deserve careful consideration for their potential to

provide vital clinical as well as biochemical information about ASD.

 

 

Does N -acetylcysteine improve behaviour in children with autism?: A mixedmethods

analysis of the effects of N -acetylcysteine

Article in Journal of Intellectual & Developmental Disability · May 2018

DOI: 10.3109/13668250.2017.1413079

 

[Automail]

Demoxytocin might help.

https://www.scientif...en-with-autism/

https://med.stanford...ith-autism.html

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/28766270/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4688331/

[TMNMK]

I would highly recommend working with a pediatric neuropsychologist and bringing up any of these treatments to them so that they can do the appropriate well-informed research based on their extensive education in brain-behavior relationship. To not have a pediatric neuropsychologist weigh in on this matter would be tantamount to negligence, in my (not so humble in this case) opinion.

[Mr Serendipity]

Riluzole works similarly to NAC. It increases GABA, reduces glutamate, and is anti-siezure.

 

I’m testing it currently for it’s mood stabilizing effects, I’m only on my second day. It seems to keep me calm, but it’s hard to identify as I’m experimenting with self hypnosis also.

 

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/28534874/

 

Shifting brain inhibitory balance and connectivity of the prefrontal cortex of adults with autism spectrum disorder

 

Abstract

Currently, there are no effective pharmacologic treatments for the core symptoms of autism spectrum disorder (ASD). There is, nevertheless, potential for progress. For example, recent evidence suggests that the excitatory (E) glutamate and inhibitory (I) GABA systems may be altered in ASD. However, no prior studies of ASD have examined the 'responsivity' of the E-I system to pharmacologic challenge; or whether E-I modulation alters abnormalities in functional connectivity of brain regions implicated in the disorder. Therefore, we used magnetic resonance spectroscopy ([1H]MRS) to measure prefrontal E-I flux in response to the glutamate and GABA acting drug riluzole in adult men with and without ASD. We compared the change in prefrontal 'Inhibitory Index'-the GABA fraction within the pool of glutamate plus GABA metabolites-post riluzole challenge; and the impact of riluzole on differences in resting-state functional connectivity. Despite no baseline differences in E-I balance, there was a significant group difference in response to pharmacologic challenge. Riluzole increased the prefrontal cortex inhibitory index in ASD but decreased it in controls. There was also a significant group difference in prefrontal functional connectivity at baseline, which was abolished by riluzole within the ASD group. Our results also show, for we believe the first time in ASD, that E-I flux can be 'shifted' with a pharmacologic challenge, but that responsivity is significantly different from controls. Further, our initial evidence suggests that abnormalities in functional connectivity can be 'normalised' by targeting E-I, even in adults.

 

Edited by Jesus is King, 24 September 2020 - 09:51 PM.