11 replies to this topic

[jlspartz]

For years and years I've been trying to find something to help me focus or pay attention when someone is talking, or remember details on something I'm not particularly interested in but need to know, etc. I know I have ADD (the inattentive form). I fit every one of the symptoms except for one - I like working on hard tasks (that's the only thing I can really focus on because I see it as a challenge).

I was reading up on it and in doing so I found it has to do with dopamine receptors and natural products don't usually deal with that. I've never gone to a doctor about it, because they would just try to push something on me for better or worse. I usually only see specialists because of all the bad advice given from physicians in the past. I trust people who have done research and know what works.

So, out of the prescriptions out there, what is the safest? What works the best for you? And does it work good?

[ultranaut]

I was diagnosed with "adult ADD" and have since gone through all the major drugs. I was already on bupropion at the time, it's in testing as a possible ADD treatment. I love bupropion but don't find that it helps my ADD symptoms. Everything I tried is in combination with it:

1) Strattera was the first one prescribed. It is the worst drug I have ever taken, I am amazed it is legal. Because it sucks so bad it gets marketed as the first drug to try against ADD, they say there is no "abuse potential". It's about as stupid as it gets, an overpriced drug that fucks up your body worse than anything that can be taken recreationally just because prudes demand no one enjoy drugs.

2) Methylphenidate was OK. I took it as Concerta, a time-released version. It did seem to help with symptoms a good amount and I didn't notice any real negative side-effects. My biggest problem with it was that it changed my mood too much, I would tend to become much more serious and not-fun. It totally killed my sense of humor and it made it very difficult to socialize with others. I would say it is definitely worth a try though.

3) Adderal is good stuff. I took a generic sustained release version for several months. It was very effective but had some issues that kept me from sticking with it. I had a really hard time with correct dosing on it and found it to be fairly inconsistent. It's "mixed amphetamine salts" and I could tell. I thought of it as sort of like a scale. One side was the physical heart-pounding, jittery, sweaty, can't sit still, can't get an erection, no-appetite amphetamines. The other side was all the mental effects that help with ADD. Depending on how my body would absorb the adderal on any given day the scale would tip back and forth. No matter what though the first hour after taking some would start on the physical side, the amphetamine that causes that is absorbed the quickest. If I hadn't found something that works for me better I would of switched back to adderal without hesitation.

4) Dexedrine is awesome. It's very much like adderal but the scale doesn't move much and it's always at least leaning in the right direction. It can be inconsistent as well, depending on how acidic your stomach is on any given day has a very obvious effect. I would say that dexedrine helps tremendously with attention, but I think adderal is actually more effective at improving focus. Side effects are fairly minimal and as long as I don't take too much at once I never feel like I'm enjoying it more than I should be.

5) Vyvanse is also awesome. It's basically dexedrine that's been made time-release in a very unique way that gets around the stomach acid problem. I think I prefer dexedrine because I have more control over dosing but vyvanse certainly has benefits. My biggest problem with vyvanse (besides the cost) is that it lasts a little too long to take a morning and afternoon dose but a little too short to take just a morning dose. I also felt like my body needed more of a break with it. You basically always have some amphetamines kicking around your system if you take it daily. It's hard to describe the feeling but after a few months it felt kind of like some of the negative side-effects were accumulating. It is subtly different than just plain dexedrine, it's hard to explain exactly but I feel like it improves focus more and sociability less than an equivalent dexedrine dose.

[jlspartz]

I was diagnosed with "adult ADD" and have since gone through all the major drugs. I was already on bupropion at the time, it's in testing as a possible ADD treatment. I love bupropion but don't find that it helps my ADD symptoms. Everything I tried is in combination with it:

1) Strattera was the first one prescribed. It is the worst drug I have ever taken, I am amazed it is legal. Because it sucks so bad it gets marketed as the first drug to try against ADD, they say there is no "abuse potential". It's about as stupid as it gets, an overpriced drug that fucks up your body worse than anything that can be taken recreationally just because prudes demand no one enjoy drugs.

2) Methylphenidate was OK. I took it as Concerta, a time-released version. It did seem to help with symptoms a good amount and I didn't notice any real negative side-effects. My biggest problem with it was that it changed my mood too much, I would tend to become much more serious and not-fun. It totally killed my sense of humor and it made it very difficult to socialize with others. I would say it is definitely worth a try though.

3) Adderal is good stuff. I took a generic sustained release version for several months. It was very effective but had some issues that kept me from sticking with it. I had a really hard time with correct dosing on it and found it to be fairly inconsistent. It's "mixed amphetamine salts" and I could tell. I thought of it as sort of like a scale. One side was the physical heart-pounding, jittery, sweaty, can't sit still, can't get an erection, no-appetite amphetamines. The other side was all the mental effects that help with ADD. Depending on how my body would absorb the adderal on any given day the scale would tip back and forth. No matter what though the first hour after taking some would start on the physical side, the amphetamine that causes that is absorbed the quickest. If I hadn't found something that works for me better I would of switched back to adderal without hesitation.

4) Dexedrine is awesome. It's very much like adderal but the scale doesn't move much and it's always at least leaning in the right direction. It can be inconsistent as well, depending on how acidic your stomach is on any given day has a very obvious effect. I would say that dexedrine helps tremendously with attention, but I think adderal is actually more effective at improving focus. Side effects are fairly minimal and as long as I don't take too much at once I never feel like I'm enjoying it more than I should be.

5) Vyvanse is also awesome. It's basically dexedrine that's been made time-release in a very unique way that gets around the stomach acid problem. I think I prefer dexedrine because I have more control over dosing but vyvanse certainly has benefits. My biggest problem with vyvanse (besides the cost) is that it lasts a little too long to take a morning and afternoon dose but a little too short to take just a morning dose. I also felt like my body needed more of a break with it. You basically always have some amphetamines kicking around your system if you take it daily. It's hard to describe the feeling but after a few months it felt kind of like some of the negative side-effects were accumulating. It is subtly different than just plain dexedrine, it's hard to explain exactly but I feel like it improves focus more and sociability less than an equivalent dexedrine dose.

Thanks Ultranaut for your input. So for you, you take dexedrine? That's the one that you seem to like the most out of the descriptions of each. What is the effect of stomach acid that you mention on the effectiveness of it? The only non-supplement I take is a stomach acid reducer that's over-the-counter, which is probably an issue due to diet. I love hot peppers known as superhots (habaneros, nagas, 7s) - they're part of my daily diet.

[ultranaut]

Thanks Ultranaut for your input. So for you, you take dexedrine? That's the one that you seem to like the most out of the descriptions of each. What is the effect of stomach acid that you mention on the effectiveness of it? The only non-supplement I take is a stomach acid reducer that's over-the-counter, which is probably an issue due to diet. I love hot peppers known as superhots (habaneros, nagas, 7s) - they're part of my daily diet.

Amphetamines don't survive acidity very well, the more acidic your stomach is the less of a dose you will absorb. The classic trick is to eat a few Tums before taking your pills, OTC acid reducers work too but I don't like to take them too regularly. Vyvanse gets past the acid problem by bonding dextroamphetamine with tyrosine. Don't remember how that works exactly but it definitely does. I take mostly dex these days, I still have some vyvanse I use occasionally but I expect when it runs out I will stick with just the dex.

[kassem23]

For me, adult "ADHD", Dexedrine (I live in Denmark, we don't have Adderall here) 5 mg + 2.5 mg + 2.5 mg daily is amazing for focus. You should expect start-up side-effects such as insomnia, anorexia, euphoria etc, since there will occur a downregulation of D1/D2 receptors, but the D4 dopamine receptors doesn't down-regulate, thereby sustaining the pro-focus effects which is what you need for ADHD. For motivation and kick-starting the system, caffeine works amazing for me..

Dexedrine, did however make me a little labile and cause a bit of anxiety and as per recommendation by several posters on M&M I started low-dosage SSRI, specifically escitalopram 2.5mg, and it's amazing. Try Dexedrine or Adderall by itself, and see how it helps and report back. Try it for at least 3+ weeks of chronic regular dosing before deciding whether to add something like an SSRI.

Edited by kassem23, 26 October 2010 - 02:04 AM.

[jadamgo]

Strattera, as others have said, sucks. At least, it sucked for me. And the studies show that, of the medications approved for ADHD, it has the lowest effectiveness. For me, even with dose escalation, it was only side effects and no ADHD control whatsoever. It just made me irritable, hostile, and defiant. And I couldn't stand up quickly without almost passing out.

Used Ritalin SR in middle school with a booster of IR methylphenidate after lunchtime. Was helpful but the dose wasn't strong enough, and the ups and downs from the first hit of Ritalin SR, then it wore off, then the second absorption came, then it wore off, then I took the booster, then it wore off, then I took more IR at home to do homework... god, that sucked. Imagine going on and off stimulants all day long. No fun.

Switched to Concerta after the catastrophic failure that was Strattera, in ninth grade. It's a great treatment. And I don't even like stimulants, so it's hard to get me to praise any ADHD medication. But it doesn't seem to cause problems with mood like the instant-release MPH did, presumably because it doesn't cause ups and downs. It's pretty effective, the amount in my brain feels very steady over the course of 6-9 hours... but gosh, it's expensive!

Haven't tried any other formulations of MPH. I tried Adderall once in middle school and hated it. Then I used a friend's Adderall once in high school when I forgot my ritalin and needed to do homework, and it seemed fine -- barely different from ritalin. I've used a friend's vyvanse once since getting to college, and it was addictively good. I haven't used it since.

Now I use Concerta together with selegiline for the selegiline's antidepressant effects, and apparently I'm the only person in the world who doesn't get euphoria from that combination, and doesn't feel withdrawals when I stop taking it on weekends or days I don't have school. In fact, I await the methylphenidate-free weekends and school vacations just as eagerly as I always have. (Because it's awesome to have an appetite. And usually I prefer the native hyperactive/enthusiastic state to the calmly focused/obsessive medicated state.) But most people get euphoria from combining those two, so I don't recommend it to others.

I also use piracetam. It helps a lot when I'm sleep deprived or when the concerta starts running out before I've finished my studying. Based on a study of piracetam in the treatment of childhood ADHD, I use a dose of 75 mg/kg body weight, which is about 4g per dose for me. If you aren't abnormally skinny even without stimulants, you might not want to use 75 mg/kg. Piracetam, of course, should be used in combination with a good choline source.

I'm going to try pyritinol once it arrives next week. If it works, I'll remember to post here and tell you that it works. If I don't remember to post here... then the pyritinol probably didn't work!

Edited by jadamgo, 26 October 2010 - 03:25 AM.

[Wurzel Bagman]

What time on average do you go to sleep and what time do you get up?

[jlspartz]

What time on average do you go to sleep and what time do you get up?

So that's one more for dexedrine and one for concerta. This is great information. It's good to know what is working for others.

My sleep time is 10:30-6:30 M-F for work and then my real sleep time (which is on the weekends) is 1:00-9:00. That's when I naturally feel tired and wake up. I typically sleep pretty sound and wake up after 8 hours. It's rare that I sleep more but sometimes I get 7 instead.

[jlspartz]

As an update, some nootropics and supplements work particularly well for my ADD, but I have not noticed enough of a change to say it's good.

I've tried:
Piracetam for quite a while
ALCAR
Choline
Lion's Mane
Fish Oil
Caffeine Pills
Magnesium

I've ordered some others too, 2 other choline sources, reishi, stuff for adrenal gland support, etc.

I'm getting more sleep and better sleep lately, and trying to refresh my endocrine system and then I will see if the ADD still persists to having to take prescription meds. I'm trying to rule out other possibilities that could present themselves as inattentive ADD. Does this sound like the logical route to get to the root rather than treating what could possibly be a symptom?

[tlm884]

I have used varying doses of Wellbutrin for my ADD. It worked pretty well over about a three year period then it finally stopped working. As well modafinil seemed to work pretty well for me as well. Straterra was a BAD BAD choice. I developed liver dysfunction when I took it and it didn't help the ADD anyhow.

I haven't been on conventional stimulants

[NR2(x)]

jlspartz;
It could be worth trying this, might really help.

10mg of transdermal iodine(iodine solution spread on skin) and some seaweed products. Aiming for 10000% RDI-which is what the average japanese person consumes. THis can increase metabolism alot and flush out fluoride toxins. Check the safety of this B4 use.

Seleniomethionine, amazing antioxidant, pubmed it regarding cancer....

[jadamgo]

If you're going to supplement with iodine, watch out for acne. It often causes acne -- not in the area where you apply it, since it's a disinfectant. But it can definitely cause or worsen facial acne and back acne. The best treatment/preventative for that is probably a well-formulated salicylic acid product used once or twice a day. Other options include retinoids, well-formulated alpha-hydroxy acid products, or benzoyl peroxide. Though I doubt benzoyl peroxide would help much with iodine-induced acne, since benzoyl peroxide is primarily a disinfectant rather than an exfoliant.

Got the pyritinol, and tried it. I don't know what to think of it yet, as I've only tried it a few times. It seems to increase alertness, but also dysphoria. Maybe that's just me... I tend not to like things that increase norepinephrine. Maybe that's why I hated strattera.

Edited by jadamgo, 05 November 2010 - 05:59 PM.