5 replies to this topic

[Meggo]

ok after having had bad experiences with ssris i tried to handle my depression & panic attacks & lack of motivation through this stack

morning:
400mg Korean ginseng extract
2000ui Vitamin D
multivatmin
zinc + b-vitamin complex

twice daily:
4g fish oil
3g Ribose
1g piracetam
2g lecithin
1g ALCAR
700mg Curcumin extract
2g Creatin MH

3x/d
tianeptin 12,5mg

evening:
700mg magnesium oxide (seems to get absorbed without problems)

2x/ week
SAMe

1-2x/ week
selegilin 5mg
--> am i to expect any bad interference with tianeptine here or are they augmenting each other as i think? should i just take one of them or ist this combination fine?


5x week
30-60min sports
--> just something till i build up some endurance --> i was practically knocked out by ssris for 6 months

1h of vipassana meditation per day


Results after 4 weeks
1) SSRI Zombie state gone
2) Motivation increased
3) depression dropped
4) anxiety: less but still not enough --> any suggestions? maybe modification of the stack or adding something which won't sedate me?
--> i got a very very very strong sedative reaction to ssris
--> phenibut 1,5g is working only a tiny bit --> not enough --> above that dose the sedating component gets to strong
5) anger: increased
--> didn't have problems with it before, now there's some agitation going on. Is the the piracetam? i am more social now, but a little less social intelligent it seems
--> i thought about ashawaghana or avena sativa --> but will these decrease motivation? will they sedate me?
6) sociability increased, but still not enough --> want to increase it even more --> suggestion for substances to use without any sedation?
--> phenibut isn't working for me, i feel very little with 1,5g --> maybe it because of something else than anxiety which is repressing me?

one thing that helped tremendously in almost every regard, but which i don't want to take again: a combi of research chemicals similar to E


i know this is a bit much
any suggestions would be great
my last psychatrists gave me reboxetin after i said that ssri's were extinguishing my living power (though they clearly lowered panic attack intensity)
i don't even want to mention reboxetin side effects...


thanks
Meggo

[FunkOdyssey]

The anger is most likely deprenyl, not sure how you will fix that besides reducing the dose or stopping it. Do a search on the forum here, we had a poll awhile back about deprenyl causing irritability and the majority of users experienced that.

Don't use phenibut at all if you have anxiety issues. It produces rebound anxiety with greater intensity and duration than its acute anxiolytic effect. It's a losing proposition.

Search KimberCT's posts here and on mind & muscle for novel and effective anxiety treatments.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 29 October 2010 - 04:10 PM.

[Meggo]

addendum: more info for guys who may be interested in my brain physiology

1) paroxetin, escitalopram: extreme lack of motivation, almost sedation during day, less sleep during night
--> the last time i quit, i quit cold turkey after having been on 40mg paroxetine for 6 months --> after 2 days an extreme emotional rollercoaster began --> loughing + crying in 5min intervalls for hours, but it was great, compared to the state i previously had been in, it was like the coming back from the dead

2) modafinil 100-400mg: in combination with ssris: still extreme lack of motivation, tiny bit less sedation during daytime, no sleep at nightime
--> or when there was sleep --> sometimes spontanously getting awake at 4 p.m. with suddenly a lot of motivation --> listening to dance music and dancing around --> lasting 2hours then almost sedated again
--> 400mg triggered a little bit of anxiety
3) wellbutrin: taken after finishing ssris, without anything else
--> week 1-3 no effect at all at 300mg/ d --> why? even with wellbutrin not enough dopamine?
--> week 4 --> had to dismiss it because anxiety started building up
4) nicotine:
--> gums do absolutly nothing
--> i smoked and quit 2 times
--> every time without being on any form of medication
--> i smoked 40 cigarettes a day and quitting was no problem at all (twice, first time lasted a year, second time is still lasting (10months) --> after 3 days no withrawal symptoms whatsoever. why?
5) xanax: good against panic attacks, bad for socializing and anything else, sedating
6) 300mg PEA while on selegiline: i feel better but also more tired? movements are slower. don't want to talk to anyone. music insn't motivating anymore. shouldn't it be the other way round? more like amphetamine?
--> music usually has a strong motivational effect on my brain. especially dance music. dopamin?
7) RCs: the combination that i tried was methylone/butylone 50/50 in a dose of 170mg. i am male. wheight is 70kg. 170mg is about 50mg less than standard i think. the effect was perfect.
--> happyness, confidence, creativity skyrocketed
--> music was a whole new world, i couldn't stand still.
--> it lasted 4h
--> no hangover
--> no medication was used in the weeks prior to it (the first time i used mao-i's was after this)
--> friends tried 190mg. they got a bit more talkative and that was it. absolutly no comparison to my state.
--> why the difference?

so PEA, wellbutrin, nicotine, RCs experiences --> are they pointing to a non-normal dopamine state?

[jlspartz]

addendum: more info for guys who may be interested in my brain physiology

1) paroxetin, escitalopram: extreme lack of motivation, almost sedation during day, less sleep during night
--> the last time i quit, i quit cold turkey after having been on 40mg paroxetine for 6 months --> after 2 days an extreme emotional rollercoaster began --> loughing + crying in 5min intervalls for hours, but it was great, compared to the state i previously had been in, it was like the coming back from the dead

2) modafinil 100-400mg: in combination with ssris: still extreme lack of motivation, tiny bit less sedation during daytime, no sleep at nightime
--> or when there was sleep --> sometimes spontanously getting awake at 4 p.m. with suddenly a lot of motivation --> listening to dance music and dancing around --> lasting 2hours then almost sedated again
--> 400mg triggered a little bit of anxiety
3) wellbutrin: taken after finishing ssris, without anything else
--> week 1-3 no effect at all at 300mg/ d --> why? even with wellbutrin not enough dopamine?
--> week 4 --> had to dismiss it because anxiety started building up
4) nicotine:
--> gums do absolutly nothing
--> i smoked and quit 2 times
--> every time without being on any form of medication
--> i smoked 40 cigarettes a day and quitting was no problem at all (twice, first time lasted a year, second time is still lasting (10months) --> after 3 days no withrawal symptoms whatsoever. why?
5) xanax: good against panic attacks, bad for socializing and anything else, sedating
6) 300mg PEA while on selegiline: i feel better but also more tired? movements are slower. don't want to talk to anyone. music insn't motivating anymore. shouldn't it be the other way round? more like amphetamine?
--> music usually has a strong motivational effect on my brain. especially dance music. dopamin?
7) RCs: the combination that i tried was methylone/butylone 50/50 in a dose of 170mg. i am male. wheight is 70kg. 170mg is about 50mg less than standard i think. the effect was perfect.
--> happyness, confidence, creativity skyrocketed
--> music was a whole new world, i couldn't stand still.
--> it lasted 4h
--> no hangover
--> no medication was used in the weeks prior to it (the first time i used mao-i's was after this)
--> friends tried 190mg. they got a bit more talkative and that was it. absolutly no comparison to my state.
--> why the difference?

so PEA, wellbutrin, nicotine, RCs experiences --> are they pointing to a non-normal dopamine state?

I'm no expert, and I'm sure you don't want to hear this, but have you read up on bipolar disorder? The first one can be described as a bipolar mixed episode. The second one can be described as a hypomanic state. The third one is typical for BP as well - when taking anti-depressants without a mood stabilizer first, anxiety and mania increases over time. I know this from going through all the things listed with my wife. BP people are usually only treated for depression at first, because their hypomanic high times are not usually considered to be a bad thing. The highs eventually cause the lows though. Try lots of exercise first. Studies show that those that take no meds and exercise have double the positive impact as those that take meds and don't exercise. If you do take meds, don't take an anti-depressant without a mood stabilizer.

[Meggo]

@funk
thanks,
i'll drop the selegiline and wait for a 6 weeks, hopefully the irritation subsides

@jl
thanks for the suggestion
i have read about bipolar disorder and i don't think i have it
the crying/ loughing lasted only for a few days after suddenly dropping ssri use, i never experienced it before or after that event
with wellbutrin there was no effect at all, no well being at all, it just felt like placebo till anxiety started to kick in in the 4th week

without medication i'm just depressed and anxious, with ssri i feel sedated, in both cases there's no other emotion like hypomania present
with ssri + modafinil, maybe hypomania, but there was also sleep deprivation present.

[owtsgmi]

I'm no expert either, but I'll throw these stack modifications out to you based upon my personal experiences with a stack centered around piracetam to combat anxiety and mild depression:

* 1000mg L-Tyrosine first thing in the morning on an EMPTY stomach (dopamine agonist - may have to limit to 2-3 times per week because of tolerance)
* Stop the lecithin, because the ALCAR is providing your choline source. Might want to also cut back ALCAR by 50%.
* 100mg L-Theanine each time you take piracetam to combat anger/anti-social feelings
* 1000mg L-Glutamine each time you take piracetam to combat mental fog (if present)
* possibly 30 drops or so liquid Rhodiola instead of SAM-E

Just some ideas. Find out what works for you. Good luck.