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WIll this world be worth living in?


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#61 Alex Libman

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 03:58 AM

A third of the Amazon is gone already, replaced by wastelands and soy fields. [...]


Good. Individuals who own the specific parts of the Amazon found soy fields to be more useful than inaccessible jungle, as did the rest of humanity who bought their soy. How much money have you spent buying up rainforest to leave it untouched, or supporting other conservationists who do the same?

Human ingenuity can identify the value of things, like the endangered species, and optimize their preservation using much more efficient use of resources, leaving plenty of space to feed and house all of the human race.


The "Great American Landscape" is a wasteland of ugly crumbling strip malls. [...]


If you don't like cities or suburbia, then don't live there. People that do live there and control its appearance find it pleasant and/or cost-effective to keep things the way they are.


There are almost no true wildernesses any more.


Bull. I've found a lot more wilderness in New Jersey, the most densely populated U.S. state, then I could have explored in a dozen lifetimes. You of course can venture to places that are a lot more remote, but eventually with diminishing effects on your enjoyment of nature.


Our atmosphere is poisoned by carbon dioxide, already irreversibly so, since humanity will never cooperate to address this. As a result of rising CO2, the oceans will soon become an acidified wasteland, as barren as our continents.


I don't know where your religion gets its eschatological inspirations, but it clearly has no basis in science.

Humanity produces only 2.75% of the CO2, with all CO2 constituting only 0.039% of Earth's atmosphere by volume (or less on years with unusually high volcanic activity), which is quickly absorbed by oceans and creates additional benefits for plants. Human CO2 production will peak over the next few decades, and then inevitably decline as ever-more manufacturing, mining, and energy production will be exported to into space. After a certain point CO2 would become a valuable commodity to pump into greenhouses for increased plant growth!


Because of human greed and avarice, these problems will not be solved.


Without human greed there would be no wilderness at all, because there would be no minds to identify it as "wilderness" and to enjoy it, because greed has been the engine of evolution and civilization that has made it all possible.

The "greed" of free market capitalism is what would preserve the value of wilderness while also balancing it against all other short-term and long-term values of human civilization. There are 70 sextilion (70,000 million million million) stars in just the known universe, and someday more than just one of them will be known and utilized and enjoyed - as "wilderness" or otherwise.

There will someday be countless space-stations with zoos containing genetically reconstructed dodos, a thriving market in interstellar trade in living specimen of rare (and therefore valuable) species of sea creatures, terraformed planets where cows roam freely in much more comfort and abundance than they have ever known on earth, etc, etc, etc... all thanks to the very thing that you here rally against - the ingenuity of man!

Edited by Alex Libman, 04 June 2011 - 04:06 AM.


#62 robomoon

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 10:17 PM

What should investors buy to keep the level of greed growing sufficiently enough? Any recommendations?

#63 absent minded

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 10:23 PM

What should investors buy to keep the level of greed growing sufficiently enough? Any recommendations?


When the greedy with powerful positions realize that if the planet dies, so does their money. They will have no choice but to invest in greener technologies, otherwise everything is gone.

as an aside (just having some layman sci-fi fun)... if an enzyme can restructure a molecule in the human body, do you think humans will ever be able to engineer a gaseos type of enzyme that will act as CO2 scrubbers? instead of nuking countries we will nuke the skies :D if need be.

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#64 wowser

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:35 PM

It is interesting to note that increased life span does not always mean increase quality of life. People may be living longer but they are also more ill.

#65 brokenportal

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:23 PM

I was only born 44 years ago.

A third of the Amazon is gone already, replaced by wastelands and soy fields. When I was born, the Amazon was still largely intact.

The Indonesian and Asian rainforests are doing much worse, 80% or more gone in many places. When I was born, they were still largely intact.

The "Great American Landscape" is a wasteland of ugly crumbling strip malls. The great Niagara falls is in the middle of a ugly crumbling ghetto. Much of it happened since I was born.

There are almost no true wildernesses any more. Kilimandjaro is covered knee deep in garbage. So is a lot of Alaska. There are plans to pave the Serengeti.

Many of the idyllic places of my childhood have been paved over for living space or commerce. Only the odd one out survives.

It is estimated that half of all living species will be extinct in 100 years.

Our atmosphere is poisoned by carbon dioxide, already irreversibly so, since humanity will never cooperate to address this. As a result of rising CO2, the oceans will soon become an acidified wasteland, as barren as our continents.

Because of human greed and avarice, these problems will not be solved.

What is there left to live for?


People that approach the question of indefinite life extension like this are part of the reason why I've put together a list that I call "Existences Big Picture, Big 8, Categories and Standalone Opportunities" or the big 8 for short. There are a ton of categories of amazing things to do, and some pretty tall incredible standalone opportunities.These things you list here are such a small fraction of what it means to be alive. Then furthermore, you can still live an awesome life among the things you describe. I mean, things change. The continents used to be different shapes and there used to be all kinds of different rivers, seas, mountain ranges, creatures, natural phenomenon, etc... but we dont think that life is woeful because those days are gone. Im sure there are a ton, probably billions of amazing spectacles that have vanished from the planet, but more are created, and there is adventure in every scenario. If the world were 50% wasteland and every sea was filled in with debris then I would still be ecstatic to be alive. It is the challenge of facing and experiencing and knowing the big picture that we have the tremendous opportunity to take part in here.

#66 DAMABO

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:01 PM

I was only born 44 years ago.


Our atmosphere is poisoned by carbon dioxide, already irreversibly so, since humanity will never cooperate to address this.


except that we are cooperating. we are creating clean energy all over the world.

#67 Layberinthius

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 01:47 AM

What should investors buy to keep the level of greed growing sufficiently enough? Any recommendations?


When the greedy with powerful positions realize that if the planet dies, so does their money. They will have no choice but to invest in greener technologies, otherwise everything is gone.


I doubt that they are even aware of the level of damage that they are causing. The folks who buy a new SUV are certianly oblivious, the ones who are making the big shots are equally as oblivious, even if it hurts them financially they just reroute around it to avoid it.

It is a steady rate of incline in our ignorance of nature.

Back when Australia was being colonised we cut back the entire rainforest to make way for farms and towns/cities.

Nobody cared or was aware of the maximum population that would be the limit of Australia's NSW territory. As a result today we have millions of people all living in NSW, not enough people care.

The thing is when you chop down a tree, its neighbour tree doesnt scream bloody murder and whack the lumberjack to the ground, it remains silent. So nobody cares, not even the next tree.

Remember that land clearing was (and still is) seen as progressive, and there was the general view in the past that land was wasted unless it was developed into farmland. Who are you or I to say to the entire human race that saving lives and increasing perceived prosperity as a bad thing?

I'll say again. It is a steady rate of incline in our ignorance of nature, not a decline, if we dont stop making newfarmland and having more kids the rate of decline will not stop, it will not slow down, it will not end!

Overpopulation is the major issue, every other issue (like energy consumption) is overblown and a SYMPTOM of the problems of overpopulation, a symptom of the disease of fucking. if you had 250 million people on the planet you could install as many incandescent light globes as you wanted, hell your house could be lit up like a christmas tree and NOBODY would give a shit. As a matter of fact they would praise you for it.

Everybody STOP fucking! *silence* *someone throws a bottle of whiskey*

Now you hopefully realise that it is nothing that we can do no matter how much power and influence and money somebody has, you cannot tell someone to stop having sex, you certianly cannot tell the woman down the street. The suggestion, The hide, The insane idea that a Scientist, a Mathematician, should tell a common worker bee human being to stop fucking is unimaginable!

Even our next prime ministah has told us that we need to be having more kids. The reason for this is because the people with power and influence are seeing their incomes dwindle and they are resorting back to the safe and sound method of telling people to FUCK like crazy. Because cheap labor is GOOD for the economy!! The ignorance and stupidity of our own leader is rediclous!

Its your job to solve our problems through technological means after all!
Why doesnt my child have a job!? How come the cost of living is so high!?
Why is petrol the price of a can of coke!? Why do we have to buy food from China?

Don't tell me that I cant buy a new Holden/Ford/Toyota/Mazda/Mitsubishi! Its my life and MY MONEY I can do whatever I like!

The end result to all of this is an entire world population of selfish people who do not listen to reason, do not listen to facts, do not listen to intelligence, and do not listen to wisdom.

But they will gladly listen to what the rich guys are saying we should be buying, or doing. Just as long as it suits their way of life, their lifestyle and their belief structures (most people are still religious.) and they dont have to do anything outside of change a few light bulbs or buy a new car. I dont see many people building new earth houses down here!

And most people consider rap/hip hop music, "gettin' bitches" to swivel on their dicks, "popping a cap" for a few Benjamin Franklin's and more so in Australia, idolizing prisoner culture, idolizing criminal bikie gangs and gang culture.

Every area code here has a gang.
Every car brand name inspires love for a paticular kind and hate for another name.
Every person wants a "root from a shielah".

The problem with telling people what to do is they wont even listen to 1+1 = 2, let alone a highly complex topic such as global climate change, or overpopulation.

Dare I say that because of our incredible idiocracy we will have to go to another 3rd world war before we even question or suggest the idea that we should stop having babies.

I propose a prediction that the next world war, whenever it may be, will be over this topic, and that people would rather go to war than talk about overpopulation.

And I suggest that the reason for this is because human beings are genetically programmed to psychologically care for their offspring, even their unborn offspring, and will defend their right to fuck and have babies even if their own lives depended upon it. They are genetically inclined to live a certian lifestyle, no others.

And the best thing about Suburbia is, it keeps these types of people shielded from the reality of their own actions, Suburbia is the nursery of the Human race, and it will probably need to become a warzone before they stop fucking.

Let me throw some facts into this threads way, 50% of the worlds population is entirely dependent to survive upon Fossil Fuel fertilizers, the reason we go to war in the middle east is not because we need more oil for our SUV's, its because 3.55 Billion of us are living on BORROWED TIME!, its finite time! and the US recognises that without oil the cost of living will increase to the point that our prosperity will no longer be sustainable.

The western world is defending its way of life, its cushy lifestyle is unsustainable and the western world's ignorance is whats the driving force behind our problems.

Living in a Mc Mansion is not the natural habitat of a human being, it is not going to be sustainable unless we severely cut back on human population levels, and even then we will be lucky to get out of it alive.

People these days dont even think we went to the moon, good luck convincing them of anything like Overpopulation.

This thread is interesting in that it is a fossil record for just how strong the ignorance was a mere year or two or three ago, and just how far we need to go inorder to realise the truth behind what our politicians are doing, and why they are doing what they do.

I was certianly suprised as to the poor quality of the responses that this thread got.

Edited by Layberinthius, 22 September 2013 - 02:28 AM.


#68 robosapiens

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:37 PM

Your just tripping out.

You're just tripping out.
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#69 Prismira Vex

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:15 PM

Does it matter? I think eventually, we will have no more need for food, air or any organic resources. We'll become hyperintelligent AIs in another 200 years :)




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