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Depression or Brain Fog


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#1 serenity030

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 11:20 PM


Hi everyone,

For a long time now (approximately 10 years), I suffer from some strange mental symptoms. The physicians I saw usually say its depression or bipolar disorder, but I think that might not be the right term, since the symptoms occur many times without necessarily having a bad impact on my mood - at least not primarily. Its rather that I have a weird feeling in my head, its not really painful but rather "foggy" and it co-occurs with severe difficulties on my ability to concentrate, to memorize and to make decisions. The symptoms vary heavily with time. I can have long periods where I just feel normal. But the symptoms regularly come back. Their intensity also varies a lot, and if they hit me worst I am suffering from severe clinical depression (which might last for months), but that does not happen often. Still I feel that these depressions are just a heavier version of the usual brain fog. The symptoms appear, disappear, increase or decrease without any obvious reasons concerning food, exercise or general life situation.

I have tried to help the resulting lack in concentration with Ritalin and Modafinil, but these ADD-Drugs make me severely depressed after just a single dosage.
I am currently trying to medicate with Venlafaxine (aka Effexor), but I am not sure if I am on the right track with taking antidepressants.

I am grateful for any advise, if there are some supplements that could help me or what else I could do to improve my mental health.

#2 NR2(x)

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 03:16 AM

The descriptions used to specify conditions can be rather miss leading as to neurocognitive basis of symptoms. Depression and or Bipolar are not bad descriptions of the overall symptoms you suffer from, but there are others that could fit to, ADD maybe. I would stress that treatment must be aimed at the neurocognitive deficits rather than a 'Condition'.
I would suggest that deminished long distance connectivity, decreased Neurogensis, decreased Metabolic state and decreased electrophysilogical plasticity is the basis of the symptoms, maybe explainable as insufficient working memory. This is very general, but all these elements are interconnected in a very very complex system! Think Neutrophic Factors

As serotonin reuptake inhibitors go Venaflexine maybe one of the better ones, its potent and very habit forming. Lithium prescibed by a doc, should definitly be considered, there is strong positive science that this treatment is benefical.
I would strongly recommend R-ALA,ALCAR,Q10,NAC,B vit,Mg+2,selenomethione, iodine/iodide etc.... metabolic enhancers and antioxidants. I would aim to achieve plasma elevations in Curcumin(Tumeric) and Revesterol aswell. Back this up with exercise where you are making real progress on your best every week and things should go quite well for you. There are more interesting nootropics however get the basics right first, then learn about the cognitive system works.
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You may be concerned about the number of supplements. However you shouldnt be concerned if you are selecting supplements that are natural and produce long term improvements in Health. Also be careful that you purchase supplements of high quality.

Hope this helps
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#3 serenity030

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 09:55 PM

Thank you for your help, I am not concerned about the amount of supplements for health reasons, but I rather find it pretty expensive to take such an amount, especially when I consider quality (How do I check, by the way, which is good quality?). In Germany where I'm from, supplements are much more pricey than in the States.

I was also thinking of getting Lithium prescribed by a Doc, but I am a little afraid of the adverse reactions many people in the net complain about. Same thing with Lamictal, which I consider as well. Its irritating that some people describe they get cognitive benefits from Lamictal, while many others seem to get decreased cognitive abilities as an adverse reaction. I am anyways ready to check out anything that might help me.

I would really like to gain knowledge about how the cognitive System works, but where to start? It seems to demand a huge amount of knowledge to understand the shop talk of Neuroscience.

#4 NR2(x)

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 03:56 AM

Purebulk provides good quality supplements at an affordable price. Generally supplements for individual use are legal to import in moderate quantities, check for your self.
L-theanine and Melatonin are good aswell

Getting started is the hard part, there are some good articles deposited on this forum, practice reading and comprehending the material. Where you dont understand use a search engine to discover the material you need. Practice reasoning from general principals and reasoning similar patterns, learn to conceptually infill.

#5 jadamgo

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 03:38 AM

I have to advise against self-medicating with venlafaxine. It has a NASTY discontinuation syndrome that needs to be managed by tapering the dose down gradually, and perhaps replacement with fluoxetine for a few weeks when you get near the minimum dose. It's hard to do all that without a doctor.

ADHD doesn't come and go. However, it commonly presents alongside major depressive disorder (and depressive disorder NOS) which can certainly come and go, and the inattentiveness would definitely get worse during depressive episodes. However, if you have ADHD, then there will be a daily amount of inattentiveness and/or hyperactivity-impulsivity that never goes away, except when you're really interested in something. (That's because the attentional systems in the brain responsible for being fascinated by something are usually very well-developed in ADHD to compensate for the dysfunctional voluntary attention circuitry. That, or they just aren't very inhibited by the voluntary attention system.)

You report feeling very depressed on ritalin and modafinil; what doses did you take?

Melatonin can be helpful at night, as mentioned above. But if you take more than about 1mg, you risk feeling groggy in the morning. 0.3mg or 0.25mg should be plenty. That said, if you don't mind the grogginess, you can get some crazy dreams at 5mg and up. Cognitive performance depends very heavily upon getting proper rest, so if you're having any sleeping problems that come and go cyclically then you may have found your answer.

On the subject of cycles, if it's yearly, then check out Seasonal Affective Disorder.

I don't see lithium as being particularly helpful to you. Lithium is primarily an anti-manic mood stabilizer, though it can sometimes be added to antidepressant medicines and psychotherapy to help them work a bit better. Lamictal stands a significantly better chance of helping you. It's a mood stabilizer that has more antidepressant effects. The people who report the most cognitive enhancement from it are those whose depression is successfully treated by it. Those who report the most cognitive impairment are on high doses and usually don't suffer from much depression.

Get your hormones checked out. It could be something as simple as a thyroid or adrenal gland problem, though such problems don't usually fluctuate as much as you mentioned. Still, it wouldn't hurt to know for certain.

Back to antidepressants: venlafaxine could work, but again you really ought to be prescribed it by a doctor you know and trust. You could, instead of venlafaxine, try another antidepressant. Wellbutrin might work -- but get a free sample instead of filling an expensive prescription for it, because you didn't have a good reaction to stimulants in the past. Tricyclics would make you feel better, but I doubt you'd like the side effects. The SSRIs... well, you'd have to try them for yourself, because different people have very different reactions to them. There's always the MAOIs, and if you have the money or insurance coverage you could try the EmSam patch which is much easier to deal with than the other MAOIs. If you can afford tianeptine, it's definitely worth a try. But if you use it, be warned that the initial euphoriant effect goes away after a few weeks. DON'T stop taking it when that happens, because there's some lag time between when the euphoria goes away and when the antidepressant and long-term cognitive enhancement effects start to appear.

Edited by jadamgo, 30 November 2010 - 03:52 AM.


#6 serenity030

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 07:54 PM

Thanks,

I got the venlafxine prescribed by a Doc, so it's not self-medication. However, I try to take a small dosage only, since the drug affects sleep and libido negatively.
I don't think its ADHD that I have, I am not hyperactive at all and my attention span was above average when I was a child. Getting a ADHD Diagnosis might be possible, but the ADHD Drugs don't work for me anyways. Modafinil, I took one time in a 100 mg dosage (which is not much), which led to 4 hours of excellent concentration and a weird depressive feeling afterwards, one sleepless night as well. Really not fun. Methylphenidate did not have the depressive effect from the beginning, but I tried it several times (5 mg dosage) and it led to severe anhedonia an a loss of the concentration-enhancing effect after a few days of regular usage.

Irregular cycles of whatever durage, independent of season, are just part of the symptom. Since I was medically checked several times, including CT, EKG and stuff, I am pretty sure my thyroid hormons and stuff have been checked as well.

My sleep is not really good, usually I just go to bed before I get tired, because I don't get tired at night, but getting up is always a torture and I am having difficulties to spend a normal day when I didn't have enough sleep. Very sure sleep is important for that matter. Melatonine (which is illegal in Germany, don't ask me why) does not affect my sleep much.

For the Lamictal, I read a lot of horrible stories of people who just lost their whole memory and attention to it. (I am, however, grateful for additional information about Lamictal). Thats why I hesitate, but my Doc wants to put me on that stuff. Selegiline and Tianeptine sound promising to me, however, they are both not easily available in Germany. Insurance coverage is fortunately not the issue (living in Germany :-)), so if things are prescribable, I might get them for free. Wellbutrin seems to have a bad impact on memory as well and is a stimulant - which my body might not tolerate.

#7 Tommygunz

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 01:24 AM

I'm curious to know if any other symptoms occur with this foggy headedness. Do you ever feel like your in a dream like state or feel withdrawn or separate from yourself?

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#8 serenity030

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 10:41 AM

Actually, I don't have any depersonalisation-like symptoms that co-occur with the brain fog, just a minor headache from time to time. The symptomps tend to be worse in the morning and get better in the evening (as usual with depressions), but for most of the time, general mood is not really affected.




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