21 replies to this topic

[Forever21]

http://news.blogs.cn...ne-home/?hpt=C2

NASA is planning to hold a news conference Thursday "to discuss an astrobiology finding that will impact the search for evidence of extraterrestrial life."

[the thing]

I wouldnt get my hopes up. It could be something about extremophiles.

[PWAIN]

I wouldnt get my hopes up. It could be something about extremophiles.

I for one welcome our new extremophile overlords...

[Brafarality]

My only hope is that it isnt some new way to locate planets based on some new methodology or something to look for or something like that. That would be lame.

[the thing]

It is about extremophiles found in an arsenic lake.

[PWAIN]

It is about extremophiles found in an arsenic lake.

Yep, highly unexciting.

[forever freedom]

http://www.thesun.co...ake-in-USA.html

If this is what it's about, it's not very exciting indeed. Of course we shouldn't be expecting that NASA would say that an alien smiled and waved its hand at one of it's robot explorers.

Edited by forever freedom, 02 December 2010 - 05:03 PM.

[suspire]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3253913/NASA-researchers-find-life-in-poisonous-arsenic-lake-in-USA.html

If this is what it's about, it's not very exciting indeed. Of course we shouldn't be expecting that NASA would say that an alien smiled and waved its hand at one of it's robot explorers.

Actually, it is pretty exciting, because it totally revolutionizes what we thought we knew about the conditions of life:

"While bacteria have been found in inhospitable environments and can consume what other life finds poisonous, this bacterial strain has actually taken arsenic on board in its cellular machinery.

Until now, the idea has been that life on Earth must be composed of at least the six elements carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, sulphur and phosphorus - no example had ever been found that violates this golden rule of biochemistry."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-11886943

[rwac]

It's on right now: http://www.nasa.gov/...satv/index.html

[the thing]

I am pretty ignorant of biology so I have to ask this. Does the arsenic based microbes mean that they arent related to any other lifeform on Earth? That would mean that life on Earth had to start twice.

[rwac]

I am pretty ignorant of biology so I have to ask this. Does the arsenic based microbes mean that they arent related to any other lifeform on Earth? That would mean that life on Earth had to start twice.

No. They can use Arsenic instead of Phosphorus, but they still prefer Phosphorus.

[nowayout]

The idea of organisms using arsenic is not new. I have certainly seen speculation on this possibility in the past.

[Kolos]

So there is probably more life in the universe than we previously thought, in places not suitable for us. Cool I guess.

[niner]

Personally, I think this is a pretty big deal. Ever since we've known about DNA, there was only one kind, a chain of base-bearing deoxyriboses linked by phosphates. Now we've found a new kind of DNA where the riboses are linked by arsenates. Chemically, it's not a huge surprise, but it's a concrete example of life based on alternative chemistry. It switches the discussion from "gee, it ought to work in theory, but no one's ever seen it" to something that we know works. It might not seem like much, but for some people it's a big mindset change. The fact that the arsenate gets incorporated in DNA carries a lot of emotional weight with people. There was always this big question in everyone's mind regarding how the genetic information was stored in the alien life form that we will eventually find. Will it be DNA? Must it be? Now we have a suggestion that the chemistry of life is more fluid. It opens up the design space for life, and expands not only what we might look for, but our thinking about it.

[PWAIN]

Personally, I think this is a pretty big deal. Ever since we've known about DNA, there was only one kind, a chain of base-bearing deoxyriboses linked by phosphates. Now we've found a new kind of DNA where the riboses are linked by arsenates. Chemically, it's not a huge surprise, but it's a concrete example of life based on alternative chemistry. It switches the discussion from "gee, it ought to work in theory, but no one's ever seen it" to something that we know works. It might not seem like much, but for some people it's a big mindset change. The fact that the arsenate gets incorporated in DNA carries a lot of emotional weight with people. There was always this big question in everyone's mind regarding how the genetic information was stored in the alien life form that we will eventually find. Will it be DNA? Must it be? Now we have a suggestion that the chemistry of life is more fluid. It opens up the design space for life, and expands not only what we might look for, but our thinking about it.

I would have thought it a lot more interesting if it wasn't just an evolutionary adaption. I would have been excited if this announcement was about a separately developed life form, not a derived one. We still only know of one line of life, ie. life originated only once on this planet and nothing has happened to change that view. Given the ideal conditions on this planet, why did it only happen once??This does not bode well for extraterrestrial life forms since in 4 billion 'good' years, life has only 'started' once.

[suspire]

Personally, I think this is a pretty big deal. Ever since we've known about DNA, there was only one kind, a chain of base-bearing deoxyriboses linked by phosphates. Now we've found a new kind of DNA where the riboses are linked by arsenates. Chemically, it's not a huge surprise, but it's a concrete example of life based on alternative chemistry. It switches the discussion from "gee, it ought to work in theory, but no one's ever seen it" to something that we know works. It might not seem like much, but for some people it's a big mindset change. The fact that the arsenate gets incorporated in DNA carries a lot of emotional weight with people. There was always this big question in everyone's mind regarding how the genetic information was stored in the alien life form that we will eventually find. Will it be DNA? Must it be? Now we have a suggestion that the chemistry of life is more fluid. It opens up the design space for life, and expands not only what we might look for, but our thinking about it.

I would have thought it a lot more interesting if it wasn't just an evolutionary adaption. I would have been excited if this announcement was about a separately developed life form, not a derived one. We still only know of one line of life, ie. life originated only once on this planet and nothing has happened to change that view. Given the ideal conditions on this planet, why did it only happen once??This does not bode well for extraterrestrial life forms since in 4 billion 'good' years, life has only 'started' once.

Well, it is exciting for two reasons: 1) While speculation might have been around that it was possible to have life-forms based on other chemicals, this is the first time we've proven it. It has moved from the realm of science-fiction to fact and that is a huge deal. I'd think that on these forums we'd celebrate more, since a lot of other speculation tossed around on here is wild conjecture more often than not and wishful thinking way too often. 2) If you've read some of the articles posted, they have conjectured that life has indeed started or re-started more than once. The discovery of bacteria that can thrive on arsenic means it is possible that when arsenic was much more prevalent in the early days of Earth, some life-forms did use it, instead of phosphorous. There is no proof of this yet, but the concept has now moved from "zero supporting evidence" to "yes, life can use other chemicals beyond phosphorous, so the possibility exists".

This is a big step. People should celebrate. I know the science isn't a flashy Ridley Scott movie, but the big discoveries often are not.

If you couple this with the other big discovery today--that there may be trillions, not billions of stars out there in the universe--the potential for extraterrestrial life is massive.

Edited by suspire, 03 December 2010 - 05:39 AM.

[eternaltraveler]

gimmie a break. If you drink a some arsenic it will become incorporated into your DNA too.

Aliens?

This is nothing but hype.

to something that we know works.

they have not shown it works. They just have shown that its there

Edited by eternaltraveler, 03 December 2010 - 06:07 AM.

[Ark]

Now i have new plans on where to get my next batch of RXs and Drugs!

OuterspacE!~

[TheFountain]

The idea of organisms using arsenic is not new. I have certainly seen speculation on this possibility in the past.

It reminds me of that episode of star trek that totally debunks carbon as the main component of life.

[Brafarality]

The idea of organisms using arsenic is not new. I have certainly seen speculation on this possibility in the past.

It reminds me of that episode of star trek that totally debunks carbon as the main component of life.

Devil in the Dark!

[TelepathicMerg]

Perhaps there is too much emphases at NASA on the physical travel and too little on projecting our wisdom into space. NASA uses surprisingly much of the Newtonian logic in the age of more advanced paradigms, as if our scientists there were but kids in school, playing own toys without much attention to the new wisdom set up for them in the laboratory and entering through the windows.

[Forever21]

The plans are


a) Transhumanism - radically lengthen human lifespan and/or modify our bodies for long space journeys.

b) Sending Robots - to space that could build more robots which could make more robots. Then turn them on or send them "intelligence" from remote location and invade space.

c) Believe in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.