10 replies to this topic

[jameskin]

Hi all,

I´ve been taking Piracetam now for 5 days and I´ve noticed some changes when taking it. It boosts my energy level and also my overall confidence. I feel less anxiety when taking it.

Anyway, I have also discussed this with my parents and friends and all they've said has been: 'But that's unnatural, that's not YOU'. My response was that's it IS me, only an improved me. I compared their 'unnatural' statement with cafeine, alcohol and even media (magazines, tv, series) which could also then be considered unnatural, because it all affects the way we think and behave. They were not impressed by my analogies and I could not convince them.

My question is how you deal with these skeptical people. Do you maybe have a way of convincing them? I know I should be saying to myself: 'ah, screw it, they're ignorant', but since they are my friends and family I'd like them support what I am doing.

Any suggestions are welcome, thanks a lot!

P.S. I'm male, 26 and from the Netherlands.

[onetimevisit]

Interesting subject,
I think understanding the motivations of peoples behavour is really important. As people we can only ever value things by our value, literally and completely, we only ever do things for our own value. Its easy to get confussed and feel that we do things for other people, this is not true. We may value the "good" we are doing another, but its always our good that we value. Our motivations are always internal. Most people cant understand this. This leads to so many bias,
Your parents cannot determine what is good for you, only what they believe is good for you, or more to the point only what they want from you. Often mums for instance never wish to see there child distressed, they therefore value lack
ofdistress above others things, eg education. This can be seen in many ways, and most clearly in the culture that no children may be failed. this cost the opportunity to try and win. Winning is very important, its a parents duty to instill that hunger, if the child isnt so inclined.
Do you think your parents wanted you to be a winner, when you were young?

But as a grown MAN i wonder why you need other peoples understanding and approval. It shows a lack of inner strength, something you should work to develop, be your own king. Never blame.

Generally life is about competiting and winning. It is therefore very bad form to describe remedial aids. You sound like a loser if you do, never gift a competitive advantage.

[Guacamolium]

Show them results, but don't allude to the cognitive enhancers. Hopefully they'll correlate the changes properly and change their view.

BTW I would seriously doubt that your loved ones would try and turn away something crucially important like a defibrillator on account that it's "unnatural."

Lots of things are "unnatural," WTF?

[jameskin]

Show them results, but don't allude to the cognitive enhancers. Hopefully they'll correlate the changes properly and change their view.

BTW I would seriously doubt that your loved ones would try and turn away something crucially important like a defibrillator on account that it's "unnatural."

Lots of things are "unnatural," WTF?

Good advice, I'll make sure to send them some experiments

[jameskin]

Interesting subject,
I think understanding the motivations of peoples behavour is really important. As people we can only ever value things by our value, literally and completely, we only ever do things for our own value. Its easy to get confussed and feel that we do things for other people, this is not true. We may value the "good" we are doing another, but its always our good that we value. Our motivations are always internal. Most people cant understand this. This leads to so many bias,
Your parents cannot determine what is good for you, only what they believe is good for you, or more to the point only what they want from you. Often mums for instance never wish to see there child distressed, they therefore value lack
ofdistress above others things, eg education. This can be seen in many ways, and most clearly in the culture that no children may be failed. this cost the opportunity to try and win. Winning is very important, its a parents duty to instill that hunger, if the child isnt so inclined.
Do you think your parents wanted you to be a winner, when you were young?

But as a grown MAN i wonder why you need other peoples understanding and approval. It shows a lack of inner strength, something you should work to develop, be your own king. Never blame.

Generally life is about competiting and winning. It is therefore very bad form to describe remedial aids. You sound like a loser if you do, never gift a competitive advantage.

The need for approval from people you care about does not show a lack of inner strength at all, it shows the willing to put yourself into a vulnerable position which, in my opinion, is a sign of being an adult. You say 'life is about competing and winning' which to me sounds very cold and unhealthy. To me, life is about being happy with what you're doing, who you're with and where you are. If you actually believe that you're a 'loser' if you take a nootropic, to me that sounds lack of inner strength.

Anyway, I appreciate you for replying but I do not consider it to be very constructive advice.

Edited by jameskin, 18 January 2011 - 01:49 PM.

[chrono]

I usually tell people that I research neuroscience and the mechanisms and manipulation of cognition (or something like that, depending on who it is). I'm not sure if that's true for you, but it's sometimes easier for people to swallow than trying to explain the nootropics you're taking. If someone makes pointed remarks like your family did, I tell them that the nootropics I take affect me less than any of the socially acceptable drugs (caffeine, booze), and are much less harmful. A lot of people don't see it's an obvious double standard.

We have a cultural bias against manipulating our consciousness for anything that's not a pathology (and many times still then). I suspect this is rooted in the mind-body dualism implicit in our philosophical heritage; it irks us to imagine that our experience can be reduced to simple neurochemistry, as though it would render it somehow less meaningful. But really, most nootropics will hardly affect any of the measures by which we define our core characteristics as people.

Unfortunately, there's no way you're going to convince everyone to like and support what you're doing. It's highly experimental, and mainstream society is about conforming to accepted cultural norms. Some people might change their mind if they see how it affects you over time, if it improves your quality of life, etc. But I wouldn't expect to be able to sit someone down for a conversation, and have them do a 180º turn in 10 minutes. I think the most important thing is to reflect and research enough that you're comfortable with the decisions you make, and realize that even though it's nice to have support of the people you love, all of us being ourselves necessarily means that we're not all going to like everything about each other.

But as a grown MAN i wonder why you need other peoples understanding and approval.

Wow, for real?

Edited by chrono, 18 January 2011 - 05:37 PM.

[aLurker]

"Everything popular is wrong." -Oscar Wilde
Ironically a quite popular quote.

Personally I just think it's sad that most people prefer Bieber and booze rather than a good book and nootropics.

[jameskin]

I usually tell people that I research neuroscience and the mechanisms and manipulation of cognition (or something like that, depending on who it is). I'm not sure if that's true for you, but it's sometimes easier for people to swallow than trying to explain the nootropics you're taking. If someone makes pointed remarks like your family did, I tell them that the nootropics I take affect me less than any of the socially acceptable drugs (caffeine, booze), and are much less harmful. A lot of people don't see it's an obvious double standard.

We have a cultural bias against manipulating our consciousness for anything that's not a pathology (and many times still then). I suspect this is rooted in the mind-body dualism implicit in our philosophical heritage; it irks us to imagine that our experience can be reduced to simple neurochemistry, as though it would render it somehow less meaningful. But really, most nootropics will hardly affect any of the measures by which we define our core characteristics as people.

Unfortunately, there's no way you're going to convince everyone to like and support what you're doing. It's highly experimental, and mainstream society is about conforming to accepted cultural norms. Some people might change their mind if they see how it affects you over time, if it improves your quality of life, etc. But I wouldn't expect to be able to sit someone down for a conversation, and have them do a 180º turn in 10 minutes. I think the most important thing is to reflect and research enough that you're comfortable with the decisions you make, and realize that even though it's nice to have support of the people you love, all of us being ourselves necessarily means that we're not all going to like everything about each other.

thank you for the reply, really helpful! i completely agree with what you're saying.

[jameskin]

"Everything popular is wrong." -Oscar Wilde
Ironically a quite popular quote.

Personally I just think it's sad that most people prefer Bieber and booze rather than a good book and nootropics.

I love that quote, thanks.

[kikai93]

Hi all,

I´ve been taking Piracetam now for 5 days and I´ve noticed some changes when taking it. It boosts my energy level and also my overall confidence. I feel less anxiety when taking it.

Anyway, I have also discussed this with my parents and friends and all they've said has been: 'But that's unnatural, that's not YOU'. My response was that's it IS me, only an improved me. I compared their 'unnatural' statement with cafeine, alcohol and even media (magazines, tv, series) which could also then be considered unnatural, because it all affects the way we think and behave. They were not impressed by my analogies and I could not convince them.

My question is how you deal with these skeptical people. Do you maybe have a way of convincing them? I know I should be saying to myself: 'ah, screw it, they're ignorant', but since they are my friends and family I'd like them support what I am doing.

Any suggestions are welcome, thanks a lot!

P.S. I'm male, 26 and from the Netherlands.

I show them the data. I've carefully tested and recorded the results of my self experiments. I assume you haven't done this, or you would already have shown them the data.
I also assume that as a typical Nederlander you care quite a bit about what your family thinks, about your place in society, and have a bit of a conformist streak. With that in mind, I'm not going to tell you to blow them off.
Your best bet is to educate them. If your family is educated, showing them that you understand the science behind your choices may help. If not, explain to them the effects nootropics have had on you, and that the science suggests that it only gets better in the long term.
If you are also an immortalist (and you probably are, you're here), bundle in that you are trying to extend your life and that brain health is a fundamental aspect of that goal.
Also, point out all of the natural substances accepted by science and society to be harmful, and all of the synthetic substances that are accepted by science and society as helpful.

[jameskin]

Hi all,

I´ve been taking Piracetam now for 5 days and I´ve noticed some changes when taking it. It boosts my energy level and also my overall confidence. I feel less anxiety when taking it.

Anyway, I have also discussed this with my parents and friends and all they've said has been: 'But that's unnatural, that's not YOU'. My response was that's it IS me, only an improved me. I compared their 'unnatural' statement with cafeine, alcohol and even media (magazines, tv, series) which could also then be considered unnatural, because it all affects the way we think and behave. They were not impressed by my analogies and I could not convince them.

My question is how you deal with these skeptical people. Do you maybe have a way of convincing them? I know I should be saying to myself: 'ah, screw it, they're ignorant', but since they are my friends and family I'd like them support what I am doing.

Any suggestions are welcome, thanks a lot!

P.S. I'm male, 26 and from the Netherlands.

I show them the data. I've carefully tested and recorded the results of my self experiments. I assume you haven't done this, or you would already have shown them the data.
I also assume that as a typical Nederlander you care quite a bit about what your family thinks, about your place in society, and have a bit of a conformist streak. With that in mind, I'm not going to tell you to blow them off.
Your best bet is to educate them. If your family is educated, showing them that you understand the science behind your choices may help. If not, explain to them the effects nootropics have had on you, and that the science suggests that it only gets better in the long term.
If you are also an immortalist (and you probably are, you're here), bundle in that you are trying to extend your life and that brain health is a fundamental aspect of that goal.
Also, point out all of the natural substances accepted by science and society to be harmful, and all of the synthetic substances that are accepted by science and society as helpful.

Thanks for the reply. You're right, I should definitely show them some research data. And yeah, I think there's a big cultural difference between the family relationship in the Netherlands and the U.S.
I'm glad you brought that up.