10 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

This day I experienced the absolute worst niacin flush I have experienced yet. So much so that I called an emergency room to ask for advice about the symptoms I was experiencing.

These symptoms include:

Tightening of chest.

Raised heart rate (about 150 bps if I counted properly)

Extreme redness from head to toe (different than the previous experiences I have had with this, before part of my body turned slightly red and itchy, this time my ENTIRE body turned DEEP red from head to toe)

Light headedness (to the point where I felt like I was going to faint)

Difficulty breathing

blurred vision


By the time I got to the emergency room the symptoms ended so I turned back, but it scared the crap out of me. I am setting up an appointment with a physician next week to see what may have caused this particular instance of such an extreme reaction.

I took 500 mgs of normal flush niacin as I have taken about 10 other times thus far, and this was the very first time this extreme reaction happened.

Questions I have are:

Could these symptoms arise in someone who is an undiagnosed diabetic, since niacin does raise blood gluclose levels?

Could these be symptoms of an undiagnosed heart condition as raised by the supplement itself?

Could niacin be anxiogenic to someone who already has a predisposition toward anxiety? If so how come I didn't get this anxious the other 9 times I used it?

[tham]

There was someone else in the forum some
time back who experienced similar adverse
effects but worse than yours, and which was
clearly angioedema.

Angioedema is a medical emergency and in the
more severe forms can kill.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Angioedema


That is why, when I used to start my father on
any new supplement, I always give him a
minimal dose, such as half a tablet or capsule,
and many times I am the first guinea pig.

Even in my younger days when I was not so
allergic, 50 mg niacin (the standard strength
of the pill normally given by doctors here as
a vasodilator) would make me flush badly.

Niacin's flush is prostaglandin mediated, which may also trigger off andioedema.


Angioedema may also be caused by non-
allergic or histamine pathways, notably
bradykinin, which is the more dangerous form.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=20664168


http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=18330729


http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=20101876

Edited by tham, 18 January 2011 - 09:39 AM.

[TheFountain]

There was someone else in the forum some
time back who experienced similar adverse
effects but worse than yours, and which was
clearly angioedema.

Angioedema is a medical emergency and in the
more severe forms can kill.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Angioedema


That is why, when I used to start my father on
any new supplement, I always give him a
minimal dose, such as half a tablet or capsule,
and many times I am the first guinea pig.

Even in my younger days when I was not so
allergic, 50 mg niacin (the standard strength
of the pill normally given by doctors here as
a vasodilator) would make me flush badly.

Niacin's flush is prostaglandin mediated, which may also trigger off andioedema.


Angioedema may also be caused by non-
allergic or histamine pathways, notably
bradykinin, which is the more dangerous form.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=20664168


http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=18330729


http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=20101876

I appreciate you looking into this but the first cited symptom in cases of angioedema is always swelling, according to what I have read. There was no swelling present in my experience, only the symptoms mentioned. Now with bradykinin, and this is a very important question, shouldn't the drop in blood pressure be associated with a slower heart rate, rather than a faster one as noted in my post? I am assuming bradykinin comes from the same origin as bradychardia, which means a very slow heart rhythm.

[shuffleup]

I had thus once and called the paramedics. Byt the time they came, I had calmed down and they checked my bp and it was lower than usual for me, especially in the state of anxiety I was still in. Like you, I had taken niacin many times before and never had an issue. There was a difference though in my response that I discovered. Any time I took folic acid around the time of niacin I would get worsening flushing. Take it easy on the dose for a bit and notice what other sups may cause a worsening of the reaction. Not fun to feel your heart beating in your ears.

[niner]

Could these symptoms arise in someone who is an undiagnosed diabetic, since niacin does raise blood gluclose levels?
Could these be symptoms of an undiagnosed heart condition as raised by the supplement itself?
Could niacin be anxiogenic to someone who already has a predisposition toward anxiety? If so how come I didn't get this anxious the other 9 times I used it?

I doubt that it's a hyperglycemic phenomenon. I would get a HbA1C test just on general principles, because everyone should know something about their blood sugar control and the test is very cheap.

Also probably not an undiagnosed heart condition. I don't think niacin is particularly anxiogenic, other than the fact that an extreme reaction like you describe would scare the crap out of anyone.

It sounds like a really extreme niacin flush, but if there was no swelling, I'm not sure it's angioedema. There's no harm in seeing a doctor, but they will probably just tell you to not take niacin. It's possible they would have some insight, or might even find something genuinely wrong with you, though I would call the probability of that pretty low.

[TheFountain]

I had thus once and called the paramedics. Byt the time they came, I had calmed down and they checked my bp and it was lower than usual for me, especially in the state of anxiety I was still in. Like you, I had taken niacin many times before and never had an issue. There was a difference though in my response that I discovered. Any time I took folic acid around the time of niacin I would get worsening flushing. Take it easy on the dose for a bit and notice what other sups may cause a worsening of the reaction. Not fun to feel your heart beating in your ears.

Amazing that you would say that because approximately one hour prior to taking the niacin I took general B-vitamin complex which contained 400 mcgs of folic acid. I actually already made the correlation assuming it was vitamin B toxicity but dismissed it out of hand due to lack of real knowledge of the interactions between the various B vitamins. I wonder if it could be any B vitamin interaction with high doses of Niacin (vitamin B3)? I did not really experience pulsatile tinnitus (heart pounding in ear) but I did feel my heart pounding rather strongly for some time after the effects had worn off. Did the paramedics give you anything to regulate your BP? Do you know how long your BP remained lower than average after the incident?

[TheFountain]

Could these symptoms arise in someone who is an undiagnosed diabetic, since niacin does raise blood gluclose levels?
Could these be symptoms of an undiagnosed heart condition as raised by the supplement itself?
Could niacin be anxiogenic to someone who already has a predisposition toward anxiety? If so how come I didn't get this anxious the other 9 times I used it?

I doubt that it's a hyperglycemic phenomenon. I would get a HbA1C test just on general principles, because everyone should know something about their blood sugar control and the test is very cheap.

Also probably not an undiagnosed heart condition. I don't think niacin is particularly anxiogenic, other than the fact that an extreme reaction like you describe would scare the crap out of anyone.

It sounds like a really extreme niacin flush, but if there was no swelling, I'm not sure it's angioedema. There's no harm in seeing a doctor, but they will probably just tell you to not take niacin. It's possible they would have some insight, or might even find something genuinely wrong with you, though I would call the probability of that pretty low.

I am puzzled at why my heart rate jumped so quickly in this instance. The only thing that even began to calm me down was splashing cold water on my face and chest and then standing shirtless in the 30 degree weather for 5 minutes. Because I had no heart to sit in the emergency room that night I must ask the question. If this was a case of a sudden drop in blood pressure how long would my BP remain abnormally low after such an experience? My pulse rate has been, for the most part, normal since shortly after this happened. I am just wondering if or what kind of semi-permanent damage this might have caused.

[thevaughny]

I had thus once and called the paramedics. Byt the time they came, I had calmed down and they checked my bp and it was lower than usual for me, especially in the state of anxiety I was still in. Like you, I had taken niacin many times before and never had an issue. There was a difference though in my response that I discovered. Any time I took folic acid around the time of niacin I would get worsening flushing. Take it easy on the dose for a bit and notice what other sups may cause a worsening of the reaction. Not fun to feel your heart beating in your ears.

Amazing that you would say that because approximately one hour prior to taking the niacin I took general B-vitamin complex which contained 400 mcgs of folic acid. I actually already made the correlation assuming it was vitamin B toxicity but dismissed it out of hand due to lack of real knowledge of the interactions between the various B vitamins. I wonder if it could be any B vitamin interaction with high doses of Niacin (vitamin B3)? I did not really experience pulsatile tinnitus (heart pounding in ear) but I did feel my heart pounding rather strongly for some time after the effects had worn off. Did the paramedics give you anything to regulate your BP? Do you know how long your BP remained lower than average after the incident?

I am not sure about other B Vitamins but it was clear to me that after some messing around with things, whenever I was taking standalone Folic acid and then taking niacin shortly thereafter, that I had this type of reaction. No I did not require anything for my BP. I should state that my BP wasn't dangerously low, it's just that it was lower than normal. Having said that, this was measured at a point when most of the symptoms had subsided so there is no way to know what my BP was at the time of the main symptoms. I also don't know how long the BP remained lower, as I just went to bed and chalked it up to worse flushing than usual. For what it's worth, I dropped niacin and I am not aware of any permanent damage, and this was years ago.

[TheFountain]

I had thus once and called the paramedics. Byt the time they came, I had calmed down and they checked my bp and it was lower than usual for me, especially in the state of anxiety I was still in. Like you, I had taken niacin many times before and never had an issue. There was a difference though in my response that I discovered. Any time I took folic acid around the time of niacin I would get worsening flushing. Take it easy on the dose for a bit and notice what other sups may cause a worsening of the reaction. Not fun to feel your heart beating in your ears.

Amazing that you would say that because approximately one hour prior to taking the niacin I took general B-vitamin complex which contained 400 mcgs of folic acid. I actually already made the correlation assuming it was vitamin B toxicity but dismissed it out of hand due to lack of real knowledge of the interactions between the various B vitamins. I wonder if it could be any B vitamin interaction with high doses of Niacin (vitamin B3)? I did not really experience pulsatile tinnitus (heart pounding in ear) but I did feel my heart pounding rather strongly for some time after the effects had worn off. Did the paramedics give you anything to regulate your BP? Do you know how long your BP remained lower than average after the incident?

I am not sure about other B Vitamins but it was clear to me that after some messing around with things, whenever I was taking standalone Folic acid and then taking niacin shortly thereafter, that I had this type of reaction. No I did not require anything for my BP. I should state that my BP wasn't dangerously low, it's just that it was lower than normal. Having said that, this was measured at a point when most of the symptoms had subsided so there is no way to know what my BP was at the time of the main symptoms. I also don't know how long the BP remained lower, as I just went to bed and chalked it up to worse flushing than usual. For what it's worth, I dropped niacin and I am not aware of any permanent damage, and this was years ago.

Thanks. How old were you when the incident took place? I am 26 and want to preserve whatever I have of my youth. I could have gone to the emergency room but all I have experienced since this even occurred has been some nerve reactions and slight palpitations. Do you think I made the right choice to wait till a doctors appointment?

[thevaughny]

I had thus once and called the paramedics. Byt the time they came, I had calmed down and they checked my bp and it was lower than usual for me, especially in the state of anxiety I was still in. Like you, I had taken niacin many times before and never had an issue. There was a difference though in my response that I discovered. Any time I took folic acid around the time of niacin I would get worsening flushing. Take it easy on the dose for a bit and notice what other sups may cause a worsening of the reaction. Not fun to feel your heart beating in your ears.

Amazing that you would say that because approximately one hour prior to taking the niacin I took general B-vitamin complex which contained 400 mcgs of folic acid. I actually already made the correlation assuming it was vitamin B toxicity but dismissed it out of hand due to lack of real knowledge of the interactions between the various B vitamins. I wonder if it could be any B vitamin interaction with high doses of Niacin (vitamin B3)? I did not really experience pulsatile tinnitus (heart pounding in ear) but I did feel my heart pounding rather strongly for some time after the effects had worn off. Did the paramedics give you anything to regulate your BP? Do you know how long your BP remained lower than average after the incident?

I am not sure about other B Vitamins but it was clear to me that after some messing around with things, whenever I was taking standalone Folic acid and then taking niacin shortly thereafter, that I had this type of reaction. No I did not require anything for my BP. I should state that my BP wasn't dangerously low, it's just that it was lower than normal. Having said that, this was measured at a point when most of the symptoms had subsided so there is no way to know what my BP was at the time of the main symptoms. I also don't know how long the BP remained lower, as I just went to bed and chalked it up to worse flushing than usual. For what it's worth, I dropped niacin and I am not aware of any permanent damage, and this was years ago.

Thanks. How old were you when the incident took place? I am 26 and want to preserve whatever I have of my youth. I could have gone to the emergency room but all I have experienced since this even occurred has been some nerve reactions and slight palpitations. Do you think I made the right choice to wait till a doctors appointment?

I'm not going to tell you whether or not to go to the doc but in what you described it just sounds like a bad flush reaction and that happens sometimes. I was maybe 31 or 32 when I had this experience so it's a couple years ago.

[ajnast4r]

take a benedryl next time