23 replies to this topic

[Skötkonung]

It looks weird with some stuff green and the rest being blue. Any chance you could return it to it's original blue color scheme?

[distinct]

It looks weird with some stuff green and the rest being blue. Any chance you could return it to it's original blue color scheme?

I agree.

[william7]

The green looks great! It gives the site that environmentally friendly look that's important these days.

[distinct]

The green looks great! It gives the site that environmentally friendly look that's important these days.

What?

[niner]

Yeah, you know, everyone is trying to be "green" these days. As Kermit would tell you, it ain't easy, either. I think the new color scheme is part of an attempt to get our site LEED certified. Either that or it's a bug. It's too fugly to have been an aesthetic choice.

[PWAIN]

It looks weird with some stuff green and the rest being blue. Any chance you could return it to it's original blue color scheme?

I agree.

+1

[hivemind]

Green looks good. The blue look is too sterile.

[Elus]

I'd like to second that the green doesn't look very good. Blue was much better .

[Logan]

If not the green, which is way too dark on my computer, maybe another color mix and match would be a better alternative to the old blue. I like the blue, but it's not a bad idea to give others a try. Maybe try them out and let us vote?

[distinct]

While this shade of green is a poor choice, it would be far better if things... you know... matched or at least went together. Color theory and all that. The way things are set up now looks accidental, or half-assed.

[Rational Madman]

While this shade of green is a poor choice, it would be far better if things... you know... matched or at least went together. Color theory and all that. The way things are set up now looks accidental, or half-assed.

Well since our site suffered two different malware attacks, and because there was some talk of restarting from scratch, the green background color is the least of my concerns. Just give the engineers some time, because they've done an admirable---and free---job thus far, and at some point in the near future, will likely repair things to our satisfaction. Anyway, shouldn't we keep the green background at least until the St. Patrick's Day festivities have ended next month?

[caliban]

Why is the forum green?
-Why not read the newsletter?

Will the forum remain green?
- As above. Ergo: Most likely not. Ideally the forum will change in much more drastic ways.

Is green a nice color?
- I don't know. Depends on whether you are male or female perhaps. So is it nicer than blue? I have worked with so many institutions now that were using a blue color scheme, I am bit sick of blue myself. However, even if one feels very strongly about colors, is there really a need to become slightly or openly hostile?

Is there a broader point you are trying to make, caliban?
- I'm mulling it over. The last few updates brought home a few points. Issues about decision making and earing the right to be heard. Issues about respect. But maybe most importantly, taking what I call the 'ossification argument' against indefinite life extension seriously: if people freak out about a color change, how does that bode for an immortal society?

That notwithstanding, of course it is good to hear peoples views! Mostly the tone has been fine in this thread, even constructive.
We have to adjust for the fact that
1- change is sometimes strangely painful,
2- people are more likely to complain than praise,
3- you can't please everybody all of the time,
4- some design decisions cannot be reached by committee or even by consensus,
5- in aesthetics sometimes, what you though was completely, intuitively obvious is not shared by others
6- some voices count more than others and that is not determined by volume

If we could all agree on those points, I would be much more confident moving forward productively. Maybe I should recycle this into an article somewhere, because we are now doing something I hate: going off topic.

So back to the really important question: -> green or -> blue?

[Elus]

What a great response. The win is strong with this one.

[Skötkonung]

Why is the forum green?
-Why not read the newsletter?

Will the forum remain green?
- As above. Ergo: Most likely not. Ideally the forum will change in much more drastic ways.

Is green a nice color?
- I don't know. Depends on whether you are male or female perhaps. So is it nicer than blue? I have worked with so many institutions now that were using a blue color scheme, I am bit sick of blue myself. However, even if one feels very strongly about colors, is there really a need to become slightly or openly hostile?

Is there a broader point you are trying to make, caliban?
- I'm mulling it over. The last few updates brought home a few points. Issues about decision making and earing the right to be heard. Issues about respect. But maybe most importantly, taking what I call the 'ossification argument' against indefinite life extension seriously: if people freak out about a color change, how does that bode for an immortal society?

That notwithstanding, of course it is good to hear peoples views! Mostly the tone has been fine in this thread, even constructive.
We have to adjust for the fact that
1- change is sometimes strangely painful,
2- people are more likely to complain than praise,
3- you can't please everybody all of the time,
4- some design decisions cannot be reached by committee or even by consensus,
5- in aesthetics sometimes, what you though was completely, intuitively obvious is not shared by others
6- some voices count more than others and that is not determined by volume

If we could all agree on those points, I would be much more confident moving forward productively. Maybe I should recycle this into an article somewhere, because we are now doing something I hate: going off topic.

So back to the really important question: -> green or -> blue?

You are being overly defensive about your choice to make the forum green. Like others have said, I've noticed that this website has gotten worse and worse in appearance as it has moved further away from the look & feel standards set by the original website designers. If you want this organization to be taken seriously, it needs to have a professional appearance. Right now it looks cobbled together.

First of all.. the ImmInst website looks terrible now that main navigation was redone in weird block colors. What happened to the original stylized buttons? I understand that the ImmInst organization doesn't have much money, but how hard is it to open up GIMP (a free program) and fix the original images to fit your new sitemap / navigation ? And why is there a strange Google search at the bottom? Why is the button hyperlinks all smashed to one side? And why do the images in the gallery appear weirdly scaled and look like cheap clip art? The very least you could do is buy some basic imagery / icons from istockphoto.com.

Secondly, a lot of the images on the forum have terrible compression artifacts. These need to be fixed. Again, not a huge level of effort but it will pay dividends toward creating a more professional looking website.

And third, the green looks terrible. There are green colors that look nice, but the one you are using is not one of them. It's not even a matter of subjectivity, gender, or the other items you have attempted to use to discredit our opinions. The color you have chosen is an ugly, garish, color that looks like it was a mistake. Especially given that half the colors on the forum are the "designed" blue tones we (ImmInst members) were used to, and the rest is this nasty stock green. It's also out of brand with ImmInst, and given the two organizations share a close relationship, I'd say they should look like part of the same organization.

If you have doubts about the opinions of us "complainers," why don't you ask your friends and family members what they think of the blue versus green colors? Or better yet, why not buy a design consultation or create a forum poll about the color changes? I think you'll find that the ImmInst community does not like the green color.

Edited by Skötkonung, 14 February 2011 - 09:50 PM.

[Rational Madman]

Why is the forum green?
-Why not read the newsletter?

Will the forum remain green?
- As above. Ergo: Most likely not. Ideally the forum will change in much more drastic ways.

Is green a nice color?
- I don't know. Depends on whether you are male or female perhaps. So is it nicer than blue? I have worked with so many institutions now that were using a blue color scheme, I am bit sick of blue myself. However, even if one feels very strongly about colors, is there really a need to become slightly or openly hostile?

Is there a broader point you are trying to make, caliban?
- I'm mulling it over. The last few updates brought home a few points. Issues about decision making and earing the right to be heard. Issues about respect. But maybe most importantly, taking what I call the 'ossification argument' against indefinite life extension seriously: if people freak out about a color change, how does that bode for an immortal society?

That notwithstanding, of course it is good to hear peoples views! Mostly the tone has been fine in this thread, even constructive.
We have to adjust for the fact that
1- change is sometimes strangely painful,
2- people are more likely to complain than praise,
3- you can't please everybody all of the time,
4- some design decisions cannot be reached by committee or even by consensus,
5- in aesthetics sometimes, what you though was completely, intuitively obvious is not shared by others
6- some voices count more than others and that is not determined by volume

If we could all agree on those points, I would be much more confident moving forward productively. Maybe I should recycle this into an article somewhere, because we are now doing something I hate: going off topic.

So back to the really important question: -> green or -> blue?

You are being overly defensive about your choice to make the forum green. Like others have said, I've noticed that this website has gotten worse and worse in appearance as it has moved further away from the look & feel standards set by the original website designers. If you want this organization to be taken seriously, it needs to have a professional appearance. Right now it looks cobbled together.

First of all.. the ImmInst website looks terrible now that main navigation was redone in weird block colors. What happened to the original stylized buttons? I understand that the ImmInst organization doesn't have much money, but how hard is it to open up GIMP (a free program) and fix the original images to fit your new sitemap / navigation ? And why is there a strange Google search at the bottom? Why is the button hyperlinks all smashed to one side? And why do the images in the gallery appear weirdly scaled and look like cheap clip art? The very least you could do is buy some basic imagery / icons from istockphoto.com.

Secondly, a lot of the images on the forum have terrible compression artifacts. These need to be fixed. Again, not a huge level of effort but it will pay dividends toward creating a more professional looking website.

And third, the green looks terrible. There are green colors that look nice, but the one you are using is not one of them. It's not even a matter of subjectivity, gender, or the other items you have attempted to use to discredit our opinions. The color you have chosen is an ugly, garish, color that looks like it was a mistake. Especially given that half the colors on the forum are the "designed" blue tones we (ImmInst members) were used to, and the rest is this nasty stock green. It's also out of brand with ImmInst, and given the two organizations share a close relationship, I'd say they should look like part of the same organization.

If you have doubts about the opinions of us "complainers," why don't you ask your friends and family members what they think of the blue versus green colors? Or better yet, why not buy a design consultation or create a forum poll about the color changes? I think you'll find that the ImmInst community does not like the green color.

If you want to take a turn sitting in Caliban's chair, be his guest, because I'm sure he doesn't relish sacrificing his free time for website maintenance.

Edited by Rol82, 14 February 2011 - 10:04 PM.

[Skötkonung]

If you want to take a turn sitting in Caliban's chair, be his guest, because I'm sure he doesn't relish sacrificing his free time for website maintenance.

Trade places? No thanks. But I'd be glad to lend a hand making the website homepage and the forum look a little more professional.

[caliban]

I feel no need to be “defensive” and while I appreciate it, I also don’t need ‘defending’.

because I'm sure he doesn't relish sacrificing his free time for website maintenance.

Whoah! Changing a color code is not hard work, it is a privilege. Some of the ‘engineering’ stuff is a bit tideous, but whats great fun about web design is that you can see results pretty much straight away – how very different from my policy and research work. Under the new constitution I can now even claim a small time fee. And ThankYou points! Most importantly: its not me by my lonesome doing 'website maintenance' – credit goes to many volunteers. Which brings me to...

Skötkonung, I thought this topic had been created because you had not read the newsletter. In there I explain that if you want to have an active say in how the page looks, the easiest way is to join the art team or the editors. Thus...

But I'd be glad to lend a hand making the website homepage and the forum look a little more professional.

Fantastic! If you want to join the editors, post in their 'row call' . There is a skype meeting next week if you can make it. The other points that you raise (buttons and images) are separate issues, I suggest creating a thread in 'forum issues' each.

[caliban]

btw (this is pretty off topic, sorry): if Members (only) want to see potential next changes, you can select the 'test' skin at the bottom of the forum. Alas, we can't have a a portfolio of 'skins' to cater for different tastes, its just too much work.

[distinct]

I agree with mostly all of what Skot has said. Attention to detail is paramount in design, and having stuff run off the page or appear subtly inconsistent is so easily avoidable.

This comes from caring about how this place appears to the outside world. ImmInst's stance can be a controversial one, and sadly controversial stances have to be presented by sources who benefit from looking as reasonable as possible if they want to be taken seriously. Anybody can get attention for something, but it takes a lot to be taken seriously. Results only speak for themselves so much. How does a bad cover design affect sales of an otherwise great book? Conversely, how much consumer junk gains acceptance because it's pretty? Quite a bit, I'd wager. A lot of people care ultimately about the information, and can ignore these things; but to someone who casually drops by or even lands here on a google-induced accident, will they delve further past page one if their first reaction is "yuck" or "LOL"?

While I realize you can't please everyone, surely there is a look that is generally pleasing to most. Most websites detailing things on the societal "fringe" tend to look like crap; let's not become one of those.

I may have some more free time in the near future, thus enabling me to volunteer as well...

[Rational Madman]

Okay, I didn't want to inflate the divisive potential of this issue, or to suggest that Caliban's position was so precarious that he required my defense. But I'm a bit struck by the lack of gratitude for the efforts of the engineers, and given the recent mess that they pulled us out of, it seems like an inopportune time to take issue with aesthetics. The issues that have been raised are legitimate, and I agree that they require some remedy, but I think it might have been more sensitive to resolve these issues in private correspondence.

[distinct]

Okay, I didn't want to inflate the divisive potential of this issue, or to suggest that Caliban's position was so precarious that he required my defense. But I'm a bit struck by the lack of gratitude for the efforts of the engineers, and given the recent mess that they pulled us out of, it seems like an inopportune time to take issue with aesthetics. The issues that have been raised are legitimate, and I agree that they require some remedy, but I think it might have been more sensitive to resolve these issues in private correspondence.

I don't think anyone is displaying a lack of gratitude, though if I'm coming across insensitive I apologize. I'm not familiar with the mess of which you speak, but aesthetics are the FIRST thing people see when interfacing with this group over the 'net, which I assume is largely how most folks find us.

[niner]

I don't think anyone is lacking in gratitude. We could scarcely be more grateful for the wonderful work that our engineers have done.

We are a community. We live all over the world, and we meet in this forum. The way in which the forum is configured and the way it looks is important to all of us. If I might make a suggestion, I think that we need a way to include more of the community in forum configuration decisions. Perhaps the editors could suggest several options for a given feature, then it could be put to a vote. Such a vote could either be open to the entire community, or it could alternatively be made a membership perk, since we're always looking for those. Doing something like this would help to build our community, and give all of us more of a sense of ownership here.

[Rational Madman]

Okay, I didn't want to inflate the divisive potential of this issue, or to suggest that Caliban's position was so precarious that he required my defense. But I'm a bit struck by the lack of gratitude for the efforts of the engineers, and given the recent mess that they pulled us out of, it seems like an inopportune time to take issue with aesthetics. The issues that have been raised are legitimate, and I agree that they require some remedy, but I think it might have been more sensitive to resolve these issues in private correspondence.

I don't think anyone is displaying a lack of gratitude, though if I'm coming across insensitive I apologize. I'm not familiar with the mess of which you speak, but aesthetics are the FIRST thing people see when interfacing with this group over the 'net, which I assume is largely how most folks find us.

We went through a nefarious malware attack, and although we're back on our feet, there are still some areas that are in need of improvement. But really, since the engineers didn't seem to take offense with this thread, I probably shouldn't have said anything, because the discussion has thus far been civil.

[maxwatt]

I am beginning to get annoyed, not by the green, but by the remaining blue on the screen. I find the combination difficult to view as well as unaesthetic. I've tolerated it so far on the assumption it was temporary, but it gives me a headache. Either go to all green, or go back to the blue. Please.

*Note: different polymorphisms in the blue receptor cause green-blue colrs to be perceived differently by different people. So though you might not find the color combination disturbing, many people will.