44 replies to this topic

[hbar]

I've tried Lithium Orotate, and I've gotta say that I've had some fairly negative experiences with it.

I, like many other people probably, got the 5mg tablets from Doctor's Best. Since I normally have a very low response to most medications, and since 5mg still seemed like a fairly low dose, I took one 5mg pill. I could be remembering wrong but I don't think I felt anything much after that first dose. Next day, same thing.

It was either the second or third day that I finally felt the effects - I can't really describe it, I felt kinda dizzy, maybe brain foggy? Really hard to describe, but it was *very* pronounced and *very* discomforting. After I realized it was probably due to the lithium I stopped taking it. Unfortunately the Doctor's Best tablets are really hard to split without a pill cutter, so I finally bought one the other day and tried splitting them up.

Still wasn't easy to split them (pills are too darn small), but I managed to quarter one of them and took one of the quarters. It was probably less than a quarter because some of the tablet got lost in the cutting process. Anyway, after what was a pretty close to 1mg dose I *still* had the side effects that I had experienced with the full 5mg pill, albeit to a somewhat lesser degree.

This is kind of disconcerting to me, because 1mg was supposed to be a "safe" dose to take. I find it hard to believe that a "proper" dose of 1mg (if that's even really been experimentally determined, seems like it's just a guess) of what is theorized to be an essential mineral should be causing such obvious neurological effects. I guess it could be something with my body chemistry, which would be odd because as I said before I normally have to take higher doses of medications (especially pain meds) to feel any appreciable effect. Or it could be inaccurate amounts of lithium in the pills (don't know how Doctor's Best is for quality. Or it could be...something else.

Anyone have an idea? Because I'm certainly not taking any more of this due to the side effects.

[Cephalon]

I get the same strong response from Lithium. The first time I took 5mg before bed. A few minutes after falling a sleep I woke up, because my head was so foggy I could not even sleep. I felt realy bad on it. Luckily I got the mini caps which can be opend easily. (Vitacost brand - lithium aspartate). You probably want to look for caps.

[niner]

I've tried Lithium Orotate, and I've gotta say that I've had some fairly negative experiences with it.
...
Still wasn't easy to split them (pills are too darn small), but I managed to quarter one of them and took one of the quarters. It was probably less than a quarter because some of the tablet got lost in the cutting process. Anyway, after what was a pretty close to 1mg dose I *still* had the side effects that I had experienced with the full 5mg pill, albeit to a somewhat lesser degree.
...
Anyone have an idea? Because I'm certainly not taking any more of this due to the side effects.

My old pill splitter was getting dull and was kind of a POS anyway, so I bought this one from Swanson. It is the best pill splitter I've ever used; it has flexible grippers that keep the pill centered even if it has a weird shape, and it has no trouble cutting the Drs Best Li orotate. It has a flexible plastic shield that covers the blade when it's open and moves out of the way when you close it. That's a fine safety device, but it eventually broke so I ripped it out and now risk my life regularly, like with my old pill cutter. However, this one still cuts great.

A lot of people seem to have some pretty wild effects with Lithium Orotate, even at pretty low doses. I stopped it once because I thought it was giving me anger issues at 2.5mg/d. I started that dose again just recently, and am going to check it again. I may also drop down to a quarter pill.

A couple possibilities for lithium issues: Orotate behaves differently from other counterions? Cephalon just reported a problem with aspartate, too. Neither of those are the form you'd find in natural water, where the lithium ions would be fully hydrated and floating in a dilute solution of whatever anions were floating about; carbonate, sulfate, chloride... Also, getting it via water means it would be dosed throughout the day in very small quantities. Maybe it would be better to try to find it in some boring form like chloride or carbonate, and dissolve it in water. In fact, it might be materially different even if orotate were first dissolved in water that had some degree of mineral content; ordinary filtered tap water would probably be ok. Splitting the dose throughout the day would probably help too.

[Logan]

Niner, the NOW foods liquid trace minerals supplement used to list that it has 1 mg lithium. They don't list it anymore because they did not want to scare off uninformed customers. Since it still likely has about the same amount of lithium in it, this may be a preferrable way of getting lithium for a lot of people.

[niner]

Niner, the NOW foods liquid trace minerals supplement used to list that it has 1 mg lithium. They don't list it anymore because they did not want to scare off uninformed customers. Since it still likely has about the same amount of lithium in it, this may be a preferrable way of getting lithium for a lot of people.

Hey, you lost (and gained) some letters! The liquid trace minerals might be ideal, though I would worry that if they took it off the ingredient list, maybe it's not there any more. I'm not sure what labeling law might apply to this stuff, but it seems like the label should match the stuff in the bottle.

[spirilla01]

I´ve been taken 1,25 mg before bed time for months with no sides. The last three nights I ramped up the dose to 2,5mg and for the
first time in years, I sleept through the night without going to pee. Taken together with 2,5 mg time released melatonin.

[hbar]

niner -

I agree about the water comment, and was thinking that myself. It could be that our bodies are really only used to dealing with small amounts of Li at a time, not relatively "large" 1mg+ doses all at once. Or like you said, it could be due to the orotic acid. To be honest I can't imagine splitting the tablets up any smaller...probably the best solution (maybe?) would be to buy caps and dump one into a bottle of water or something and slowly drink it over the course of a day. Unfortunately that's just way too much work for me, so until I can figure out why lithium orotate is giving such pronounced side effects, I'm going to stop taking it altogether :(

[mikeinnaples]

Been taking the doctor's best like many of you for quite some time. I take it Monday through Friday only at the full 5mg. I feel it has mellowed me out more than anything.

[Logan]

Niner, the NOW foods liquid trace minerals supplement used to list that it has 1 mg lithium. They don't list it anymore because they did not want to scare off uninformed customers. Since it still likely has about the same amount of lithium in it, this may be a preferrable way of getting lithium for a lot of people.

Hey, you lost (and gained) some letters! The liquid trace minerals might be ideal, though I would worry that if they took it off the ingredient list, maybe it's not there any more. I'm not sure what labeling law might apply to this stuff, but it seems like the label should match the stuff in the bottle.

Ha ha, yeah I was going with the name of the person I was for Halloween, otherwise known as Wolverine.

I spoke to someone at NOW and they said they took it off the label due to marketing concerns. He said the level of lithium should be the same, and that there are many other trace minerals found in the product without listed amounts on the label.

[Fred C. Dobbs]

Dr. Jonathan V. Wright is a big fan of low-dose Lithium. He recommends up to 30 mg/day of Lithium Orotate for increasing grey matter, for inhibiting Alzheimer’s, for cluster headaches, for mood disorders, and for addiction.

For alcoholics, he recommends 10 mg taken 3 times per day, with a trial period of 6 to 8 weeks to assess effectiveness. For recovered/former alcoholics, he recommends 5 mg taken 3 times per day. For direct blood relatives of alcoholics, he recommends 5 mg taken 2 or 3 times per day. Alcoholics report improved mood and decreased desire for alcohol after about 6 weeks.

The high dose lithium typically associated with side effects is the Lithium Carbonate form, which is given in doses of 90 to 180 mg of elemental lithium.

Article by Dr. Wright: http://tahomaclinicb...mineral-part-1/

[chrono]

I use the Advanced Research LiOr 5mg tablets. A $15 bottle lasts almost two years. They're very easy to break cleanly into quarters using just my fingers, and you could probably break them into eighths with a pill splitter.

I get some pretty noticeable effects from 5mg, which go away after about a week. If I take it at night, it mostly feels like wanting to sleep an extra few hours, until I get used to it. I tend to fall asleep without taking my supps sometimes, or neglect to refill my pill organizer for other reasons, and I got sick of having to adjust to this again and again. I find that 1mg has almost none of this effect.

Edited by chrono, 07 November 2011 - 08:32 AM.

[shp5]

Has someone tried 5mg and more of Lithium Ororate long term? I use 5mg as a sleeping aid, but I am trying not to use it regularly because of tolerance issues - I didn't get the calming effect anymore.

Edited by shp5, 22 February 2013 - 03:26 PM.

[nameless]

Have there been any studies comparing absorption of lithium orotate compared to other forms?

I tried the Doctor's Best brand, like many here, some time ago -- I ended up stopping it as I felt a little foggy. Although that could have been due to my pill cutting abilities, or lack thereof ... odd chunks at various doses.

I also wonder if rate of absorption plays a role. As stated above, most people aren't taking 1mg+ as a single dose from water supplies.

[Blankspace]

Have there been any studies comparing absorption of lithium orotate compared to other forms?

This study on rats compares the uptake, distribution and excretion of lithium orotate, carbonate, and chloride:

[1]The pharmacokinetics of the lithium ion administered as lithium orotate were studied in rats. Parallel studies were carried out with lithium carbonate and lithium chloride. [2] No differences in the uptake, distribution and excretion of the lithium ion were observed between lithium orotate, lithium carbonate and lithium chloride after single intraperitoneal, subcutaneous or intragastric injections (0.5-1.0 mEq lithium/kg) or after administration of the lithium salts for 20 days in the food. [3] The findings oppose the notion that the pharmacokinetics of the lithium ion given as lithium orotate differ from lithium chloride or lithium carbonate. [4] Polyuria and polydipsia developed more slowly in rats given lithium orotate than in those given lithium carbonate or lithium chloride, perhaps due to an effect of the orotate anion.
PMID:1260219

Full text: http://www.ncbi.nlm....m00512-0006.pdf

[mustardseed41]

I've taken 15 mg for about 1.5 years now. By far my favorite supp.