8 replies to this topic

[william7]

Makes some interesting points worth considering.

[niner]

A couple Bible thumpers are bummed about Genetics, Robotics, AI, Synthetic Biology...

I suppose it's worth knowing what we're up against. A couple quotes: "An assault on God's creative genius"... "College kids are being indoctrinated with a new world view that's called transhumanism."

[william7]

A couple Bible thumpers are bummed about Genetics, Robotics, AI, Synthetic Biology...

Its more than just a few niner. Take a look at these well thought out articles.

Cloning: A Dangerous Journey Into Uncharted Waters? "man is building up a figurative 'tower of Babel' with all his technology and scientific advances"

Can Science Give Us Eternal Life? "Any attempt to gain eternal life apart from the plan of God is doomed to fail."

Restoration: The Limitations of Technology. "As people become dependent on scientific and technical achievements to the exclusion of the true spiritual values, we are in danger of creating a world without God."

I'm sure there will be more of the same since the frontcover article in the Time magazine proclaiming man will attain immortality by 2045. With more of the same coming out on Ray Kurzweil's ideas, I'm sure Christianity's response will become stronger.

Edited by william7, 28 February 2011 - 02:43 PM.

[niner]

A couple Bible thumpers are bummed about Genetics, Robotics, AI, Synthetic Biology...

Its more than just a few niner. Take a look at these well thought out articles.

Cloning: A Dangerous Journey Into Uncharted Waters? "man is building up a figurative 'tower of Babel' with all his technology and scientific advances"

Can Science Give Us Eternal Life? "Any attempt to gain eternal life apart from the plan of God is doomed to fail."

Restoration: The Limitations of Technology. "As people become dependent on scientific and technical achievements to the exclusion of the true spiritual values, we are in danger of creating a world without God."

I'm sure there will be more of the same since the frontcover article in the Time magazine proclaiming man will attain immortality by 2045. With more of the same coming out on Ray Kurzweil's ideas, I'm sure Christianity's response will become stronger.

I can't really call these articles 'well thought out' if they are as naive and misinformed as the first. I suppose that's to be expected, though. We should certainly expect pushback from the religious community, among others. Mankind is heading toward a period of shocking change. People are freaky enough in normal times, but some of the things that are coming down the pike are going to get some people pretty rattled. I think modern Luddism is just something that we will have to contend with. I wonder if we would get anywhere with a rationale for why God would be totally cool with transhumanism? After all, it's the ultimate flowering of His Glory.

[chris w]

I wonder if we would get anywhere with a rationale for why God would be totally cool with transhumanism? After all, it's the ultimate flowering of His Glory.

That has been on my mind too for some time - I guess there isn't a theologically serious reason why Christians would be against greately extended lifespans, as long as we don't call this "immortality", their red lamp should not flash. In the end, if humans are supposed to wait for Jesus surfing down on a cloud to come and judge us, it shouldn't matter if we are waiting in the flesh here or as souls in...somewhere.

Actually, the Mormon god seems to be down with the transhumanist idea, this religion holds that man is to strive to become a god himself, by his own works, and there is a Mormon Transhumanist Association. They've put up a video mixing tenets of their doctrine with graphs ripped heavily from Kurzweil :

http://vimeo.com/3239778



"College kids are being indoctrinated with a new world view that's called transhumanism." LOL, how I wish it were true. It's good to hear though, that the anti-camp see us a clear and present danger to minds of the young

BTW I'll vomit if I see Brave New World and Frankesntein mentioned ever again in a Luddite article. C'mon people, those are just books, stop using fictional stories as an argument in real world discussions, that's intellectual laziness.

[william7]

I wonder if we would get anywhere with a rationale for why God would be totally cool with transhumanism? After all, it's the ultimate flowering of His Glory.

The only way I see that working, niner, is if the transhumanists get the necessary spiritual insight and shape the new technology consistently with the Word of God (Bible) in behalf of all of humanity. All I see on the scene is atheists, big government, and big corporate interests. Sure they're promising to end poverty, but do they really mean it? It looks to me like they'll more than likely continue to build stronger military power and continue to pursue a police state agenda to keep their special privileges intact.

President Eisenhower warned us about the "military-industrial complex" and the "scientific technological elite" subverting democracy and public policy in his farewell address. It looks like that's about to happen with transhumanism unless God steps in like He did at the Tower of Babel.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades. In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers. The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present -- and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.

[william7]

Actually, the Mormon god seems to be down with the transhumanist idea, this religion holds that man is to strive to become a god himself, by his own works, and there is a Mormon Transhumanist Association. They've put up a video mixing tenets of their doctrine with graphs ripped heavily from Kurzweil :

Thanks for posting the video a Mormon's perspective on Transhumanism. I'm sure this young man's views are not official doctrine of the Mormon church. I think he misconstrues or glosses over the Scriptures to a great degree in his desire to give religious support to transhumanism.

I think I like the more cautious views expressed in the Techno-Occult Mad Scientists video better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJAjQ3FJ0hI

[niner]

I wonder if we would get anywhere with a rationale for why God would be totally cool with transhumanism? After all, it's the ultimate flowering of His Glory.

The only way I see that working, niner, is if the transhumanists get the necessary spiritual insight and shape the new technology consistently with the Word of God (Bible) in behalf of all of humanity. All I see on the scene is atheists, big government, and big corporate interests. Sure they're promising to end poverty, but do they really mean it? It looks to me like they'll more than likely continue to build stronger military power and continue to pursue a police state agenda to keep their special privileges intact.

President Eisenhower warned us about the "military-industrial complex" and the "scientific technological elite" subverting democracy and public policy in his farewell address. It looks like that's about to happen with transhumanism unless God steps in like He did at the Tower of Babel.

I agree that stronger military and police states are not good, but I don't see much overlap between that and the people who think of themselves as transhumanists. I guess you're seeing the dark side of advanced technology, as employed by the war machine. I suppose some transhumanists see all technological advances as good things, but like so many things, a lot of it can be turned to a bad end. I agree that there are a lot of atheists in the transhumanist scene, but do you consider atheists to be bad? They aren't amoral, so I don't see that as a problem. Eisenhower's warning about the military-industrial complex seems to have thoroughly come to pass. As for the part about the "scientific technological elite", if only. The Right is strongly anti-science, and anti-intellectualism is rife in this country. I think we're a very long way from a scientific technological elite having significant political power in America. Maybe in China...

[chris w]

Actually, the Mormon god seems to be down with the transhumanist idea, this religion holds that man is to strive to become a god himself, by his own works, and there is a Mormon Transhumanist Association. They've put up a video mixing tenets of their doctrine with graphs ripped heavily from Kurzweil :

Thanks for posting the video a Mormon's perspective on Transhumanism. I'm sure this young man's views are not official doctrine of the Mormon church. I think he misconstrues or glosses over the Scriptures to a great degree in his desire to give religious support to transhumanism.

Yes - I assume his isn't the official stance of the Mormon Church, because most probably the Mormon Church doesn't yet have a particular stance on transhumanism. However, the very central tenets of this creed - that God is a being of flesh and he himself had to achieve Godhood (I'm not making this up, it's all for example in the so called King Follet discourse by Joseph Smith and also Brigham Young's writings) and man is to follow, directly appear as potentially symphatetic to transhumanism more than any other contemporary religion on earth IMO. Not that I wish necessarily to form some alliance with them, just saying.