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Thoughts on Wellbutrin?


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#1 VoidPointer

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:34 AM


My doc loves this med, and gives to patients who are stopping their stim meds. He says it works for about 50% of ADHD patients.

I guess my questions are;

how does it to compare to Concerta or Focalin in terms of ADD management?

Does it negatively affect sleep patterns?

what are the common side effects?

Is the seizure risk related to Wellbutrin any higher than other stimulants?

Most feedback I have seen has been initially positive, but then most people end up stopping after a 1 year. If it is so great why stop?

Thanks

#2 ultranaut

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 06:35 PM

My doc loves this med, and gives to patients who are stopping their stim meds. He says it works for about 50% of ADHD patients.

I guess my questions are;

how does it to compare to Concerta or Focalin in terms of ADD management?

Does it negatively affect sleep patterns?

what are the common side effects?

Is the seizure risk related to Wellbutrin any higher than other stimulants?

Most feedback I have seen has been initially positive, but then most people end up stopping after a 1 year. If it is so great why stop?

Thanks


I love it. I've not heard of it being given for people stopping stims, but I suppose that makes quite a bit of sense. Personally, I don't think it has much effect on my ADHD symptoms. I know there are people out there who find it very beneficial in that regard, I'm not one of them. It does boost motivation a fair amount, but in a much less "pushy" way than any stimulant.
It did effect my sleep, but in a mostly positive manner (I feel more rested yet sleep less). I don't really think of it as a stimulant in the sense of "if I take this before bed I won't sleep", but I don't think I would sleep well if I took one before bed.

I'm not sure about relative seizure risk. I do know that if you examine the data on it the seizure risk is hugely overblown if you stick with current recommended doses. Originally, the recommended minimum dose was significantly higher than the current recommended maximum dose. If you have a history of seizures or take other drugs which may lower the seizure threshold then tread very cautiously, but otherwise I would say it is nothing to worry about after the first few weeks of regular dosing unless you are taking over 600mg of the SR version.

I cut way back on it after around two years because I realized I didn't need it like I used to. I originally started on it as an antidepressant, it worked amazingly and almost literally saved my life. It also terminated my cigarette addiction, and it had various other pleasant benefits that made life much more enjoyable. Because of these effects I stuck with it even though the situation which necessitated an antidepressant had been dealt with well enough that I could continue without it. I currently take it a few times per week. I suspect that if I quit it for more than a few months I would return to my cigarette addiction and would probably begin drifting towards becoming a generally less happy person.

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#3 VoidPointer

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 07:35 PM

Thanks for the feedback, sounds like something I might have to try.

As far as the seizure risk, I guess I am wondering if the risk from Wellbutrin results from a completely different mechanism than that of stimulants.

Is it a drug that you can take on an 'as needed' basis, or does it need to build up in your system before it is effective?

Oh yeah, are the rumors of increased sex drive true? Because I really do not have problems there, and I cannot waste any more time chasing tail.

#4 ultranaut

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Posted 08 March 2011 - 12:10 AM

Is it a drug that you can take on an 'as needed' basis, or does it need to build up in your system before it is effective?

Oh yeah, are the rumors of increased sex drive true? Because I really do not have problems there, and I cannot waste any more time chasing tail.


It does need to build up to be effective, at least in most people. In my case I felt it right away when I first started on it, I don't think that is typical though. It did noticeably build in effects during the first week or so. Within a couple days of starting on it I'd quit smoking even though I hadn't intended to. Now, as long as I take it at least 3 times per week I can usually feel it working to some extent (there's a distinct difference smoking a cigarette while on it so it's been easy to tell when it's out of my system). Normal dosing for the XL version is daily in the morning, I imagine if you want something "as needed" then the SR version may be a better choice. It's probably not very well suited to that type of use though, if you want to try it out and really get a feel for the full range of effects I'd give it a week or three of regular daily dosing.

The increased sex drive is very true. It also increases the potential for multiple orgasms, at least in me it does. That was quite the surprise the first time it happened. In general, I'd say it is a very pro-sexual drug in the "more and better" sense: You will want it more and it will be better when you do it.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that it does reduce appetite. It doesn't feel like the more typical stimulant-induced appetite suppression where eating isn't pleasant when you try to, if anything it's more pleasant. Instead it's more like you just don't feel particularly hungry and thus forget to eat. It's much like how it effects cigarettes, I still enjoy them and will have one if offered or as part of a social interaction, but I just don't feel the urge to have one. Without that urge it's like you forget to smoke, you forget you are a smoker, then you realize you aren't sure when you last smoked one. The effect on appetite isn't nearly as profound as on cigarette addiction but it is definitely there and likely will lead to a change in eating habits. I used to come home and my girlfriend would ask what I'd had for lunch, and I'd think about it a bit and then realize I never even took a lunch break.

#5 vrain

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Posted 08 March 2011 - 07:03 AM

Is it a drug that you can take on an 'as needed' basis, or does it need to build up in your system before it is effective?

Oh yeah, are the rumors of increased sex drive true? Because I really do not have problems there, and I cannot waste any more time chasing tail.


It does need to build up to be effective, at least in most people. In my case I felt it right away when I first started on it, I don't think that is typical though. It did noticeably build in effects during the first week or so. Within a couple days of starting on it I'd quit smoking even though I hadn't intended to. Now, as long as I take it at least 3 times per week I can usually feel it working to some extent (there's a distinct difference smoking a cigarette while on it so it's been easy to tell when it's out of my system). Normal dosing for the XL version is daily in the morning, I imagine if you want something "as needed" then the SR version may be a better choice. It's probably not very well suited to that type of use though, if you want to try it out and really get a feel for the full range of effects I'd give it a week or three of regular daily dosing.

The increased sex drive is very true. It also increases the potential for multiple orgasms, at least in me it does. That was quite the surprise the first time it happened. In general, I'd say it is a very pro-sexual drug in the "more and better" sense: You will want it more and it will be better when you do it.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that it does reduce appetite. It doesn't feel like the more typical stimulant-induced appetite suppression where eating isn't pleasant when you try to, if anything it's more pleasant. Instead it's more like you just don't feel particularly hungry and thus forget to eat. It's much like how it effects cigarettes, I still enjoy them and will have one if offered or as part of a social interaction, but I just don't feel the urge to have one. Without that urge it's like you forget to smoke, you forget you are a smoker, then you realize you aren't sure when you last smoked one. The effect on appetite isn't nearly as profound as on cigarette addiction but it is definitely there and likely will lead to a change in eating habits. I used to come home and my girlfriend would ask what I'd had for lunch, and I'd think about it a bit and then realize I never even took a lunch break.


Thats some interesting info on the wellbutrin. One question I have - does it make you overly happy - i.e. in a class clown - have to crack a joke at everything - overly eager to please/manic sort of way? Or do you still have the capacity for anger/displeasure etc. maybe overly artificially happy is what I'm driving at. Thanks - hope you can clear that up and understand what I'm asking. Cheers..V

#6 ultranaut

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Posted 08 March 2011 - 05:58 PM

Thats some interesting info on the wellbutrin. One question I have - does it make you overly happy - i.e. in a class clown - have to crack a joke at everything - overly eager to please/manic sort of way? Or do you still have the capacity for anger/displeasure etc. maybe overly artificially happy is what I'm driving at. Thanks - hope you can clear that up and understand what I'm asking. Cheers..V


I think all of the above at one point or another. For me the best way to describe it would be "hypohypomania", with occasional brief excursions into hypomanic territory. I never felt "artificially happy", even though I knew logically that feeling happy was drug induced. The happiness always seems authentic, it's like you just normally wouldn't notice it but the things that inspire it are all genuine. Think of the difference between the two reactions you can have when driving a car during a sunset: You either admire the pretty sunset or you get upset that it's blinding you.

It definitely does not diminish the capacity for anger or other negative emotions, it's more like they're forced into a better perspective. This was actually one of the most helpful aspects of the drug because I found it so much easier to discuss uncomfortable emotional topics in a constructive way without becoming overwhelmed or morbidly focused like I normally would.

#7 VoidPointer

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 09:13 PM

Thanks for the response ultranaut.. A few more questions if you do not mind;

1) Does Wellbutrin help in any way your cognitive abilities?
2) Even though I probably would not mix Focalin and Wellbutrin, would taking them together have an unfavorable risk/reward ratio?
3) Are there tolerance issues, like with other stimulants?

#8 ultranaut

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 12:26 AM

Thanks for the response ultranaut.. A few more questions if you do not mind;

1) Does Wellbutrin help in any way your cognitive abilities?
2) Even though I probably would not mix Focalin and Wellbutrin, would taking them together have an unfavorable risk/reward ratio?
3) Are there tolerance issues, like with other stimulants?


No problem, we're all here to share and I'm always happy to discuss bupropion in light of what it's done for me.

1) Strangely, it makes me better at Scrabble. I've never been particularly good at Scrabble but I do play fairly regularly with friends online. I had a very noticeable improvement when I started taking it. I have read of people who feel like it impairs their short-term memory, I've never experienced this.

2) I've not tried it with Focalin but I have taken it with a very similar drug, methylphenidate (Ritalin). It made me excessively and uncontrollably serious. To my knowledge it's not an inherently dangerous combo. I couldn't stick with it though, it was too difficult to have fun or socialize and I just didn't feel like myself.

3) There is a kind of tolerance that develops but it is mild and nothing at all like other stimulants. It's more like you get used to it, it becomes the new normal and you stop noticing that it's working even though it is. It's not at all like dextroamphetamine tolerance where it becomes noticeably more severe from one day to another until you find yourself capable of falling asleep on twice the dose you started at.

#9 vrain

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 04:10 AM

Thats some interesting info on the wellbutrin. One question I have - does it make you overly happy - i.e. in a class clown - have to crack a joke at everything - overly eager to please/manic sort of way? Or do you still have the capacity for anger/displeasure etc. maybe overly artificially happy is what I'm driving at. Thanks - hope you can clear that up and understand what I'm asking. Cheers..V


I think all of the above at one point or another. For me the best way to describe it would be "hypohypomania", with occasional brief excursions into hypomanic territory. I never felt "artificially happy", even though I knew logically that feeling happy was drug induced. The happiness always seems authentic, it's like you just normally wouldn't notice it but the things that inspire it are all genuine. Think of the difference between the two reactions you can have when driving a car during a sunset: You either admire the pretty sunset or you get upset that it's blinding you.

It definitely does not diminish the capacity for anger or other negative emotions, it's more like they're forced into a better perspective. This was actually one of the most helpful aspects of the drug because I found it so much easier to discuss uncomfortable emotional topics in a constructive way without becoming overwhelmed or morbidly focused like I normally would.



Sorry ultranaut - the grilling continues hehe. Just want to clarify the above - did you go through this manic/hypo/eager to please phase while you were adjusting to the meds - or is this the new you/end result? Could you clarify or go into more detail on this. Its much appreciated - you've contributed a great deal so far - I'm very curious because I'm on the verge of starting with wellbutrin...

#10 ultranaut

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 07:09 AM

Sorry ultranaut - the grilling continues hehe. Just want to clarify the above - did you go through this manic/hypo/eager to please phase while you were adjusting to the meds - or is this the new you/end result? Could you clarify or go into more detail on this. Its much appreciated - you've contributed a great deal so far - I'm very curious because I'm on the verge of starting with wellbutrin...


It's hard to quantify exactly but I'd say I hit a plateau within about two weeks of starting and then after several months it gradually faded back a bit as I got used to it. For example, I would come home from working non-stop all day and still feel incredibly motivated to clean and do dishes and socialize almost every day during this time period. After hours of being productive and/or socializing I'd eat the only real meal of the day, fuck until she couldn't handle it, sleep 5 hours (or less), then leap out of bed before sunrise with a smile on my face and go right back to it feeling completely awesome. Over the course of a few months I realized I'd settled into a much more reasonable and sustainable pattern. This same sort of plateau and then gradual leveling off was repeated for every beneficial effect during this time period. Now, even after more than a week without it I will still feel generally better and more motivated than I typically did prior to taking it, and it's definitely become easier to get back to a non-depressed state of mind when the sadness sets in, although I am still noticeably more prone to depression when I don't take it.

Edited by ultranaut, 10 March 2011 - 07:11 AM.


#11 Meggo

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 08:38 AM

any thoughts about the combination of selegeline and wellbutrin?
effectwise i guess they should complement each other
but what about the seizure risk?

#12 ultranaut

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 06:36 PM

any thoughts about the combination of selegeline and wellbutrin?
effectwise i guess they should complement each other
but what about the seizure risk?


I've read it is potentially dangerous, I don't remember precisely how but I think it had something to do with the increased MAO inhibition that happens with sustained use above a certain dose. I remember when I tried selegiline I kept the dose low and infrequent, I believe between 1mg and 5mg once or twice per week. I don't remember what it was like well enough to describe now, but I know I never had any negative reactions and generally had a positive experience with it. I didn't buy more was because it was expensive without a prescription and there are too many other interesting things to try still.

#13 VoidPointer

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 08:49 PM

Even though I have read a bit about Wellbutrin, I still am not completely clear on how it works. It seems to affect both dopamine and norepinephrine levels, just like regular stimulants. So is it almost like a "Ritalin-Lite"?

As far as improving brain function, how does it compare to Modafinil?

At some point in the future I want to take a break from Focalin(it still works for me with few side effects, but I have been on it for a long time and want to prevent tolerance). I do not want to go the AMP route, so my only other choices are Wellbutrin or Modafinil.My doc does not seem to want to prescribe Modafinil, as he considers it more "risky and unproven" than regular stims.

Interesting study on athletic performance;

http://sweatscience....wellbutrin-etc/

Edited by VoidPointer, 20 March 2011 - 08:50 PM.


#14 nupi

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 12:39 PM

Sounds like what I need to try to get over my overall lack of motivation and enjoyment of most things. It's not quite anhedonia but it goes in that direction - even getting laid does not seem to be worth bothering most days. It's also not clinical depression (I had that years ago and it is much worse). It just takes shit loads of discipline to get anything done. I also rather like to sleep a lot but then again get up and night and can't seem to fall asleep again. Really annoying.

Any obvious side effects? I know that almost a decade ago when I used Effexor for a while it basically flat lines my emotions on a high level (it have a nagging feeling they are still flat lined, just not on a high level) but the other side effects were too much to take for long (trouble reaching orgasm - still have that to some degree though it certainly beats the alternative for a guy, I guess, weird dreams and significant weight gain)..

Edited by nupi, 01 April 2011 - 12:41 PM.


#15 iago

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 01:54 PM

For me, the problem I had with Wellbutrin was that it destroyed my memory. I'm not sure if I can attribute memory problems entirely to Wellbutrin, but it certainly played a part. Also, I found that the generic brands that my pharmacist ordered were of a much lower quality than the GSK brand.

I did not experience significantly increased sex drive.

#16 Jq82

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 11:15 PM

I just wanted to jump in on this topic...

*What's your diet like
*Why is your Dr. wanting to prescribe it to you
*What other noots/etc are you taking

Bupropion/Wellbutrin does NOT react the same in everyone...Ultranaut makes Wellbutrin seem like a wonder drug...

I am currently taking 150mg XR Bupropion with 10mg of Adderall in the AM along with my various noots/vitamins. Bupropion does not make me feel "Hypomanic" -on the other hand, SSRI's like Effexor or Lexapro make me feel "Hypomanic" to the point of saying inappropriate things leading to some unpleasant situations...and forget about sleeping.

It all depends on your own system and how certain chemicals react in your body...I researched the differences between the different chemicals so I could understand the possible outcomes.

All in all I am pleased with the addition of the Bupropion to my regimen and I am considering upping the dosage to the 300mg...It does not make me feel "Fake" or "Dosed" -I can just handle stress/negative situations better.

#17 VoidPointer

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 08:28 PM

For me, the problem I had with Wellbutrin was that it destroyed my memory. I'm not sure if I can attribute memory problems entirely to Wellbutrin, but it certainly played a part. Also, I found that the generic brands that my pharmacist ordered were of a much lower quality than the GSK brand.

I did not experience significantly increased sex drive.



What mechanism of Wellbutrin would have a negative effect on memory? I really do not understand that at all. No one has yet explained exactly how Wellbutrin works, and how it is different that stimulants. It seems to work on the same parts of the brain, but in a longer-term manner, and to a lesser degree.

#18 Jq82

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 09:15 PM

Bupropion Wiki Link

How it works: Link

What Bupropion is NOT(SSRI info): SSRI link

I'm still relatively new to this all so I just google the crap out of new concepts and I always have a dictionary near by as well!

I have not experienced an increase in sex drive...per say...

@ Iago: What information are you basing the quality of the generic vs GSK brand off of?

#19 aLurker

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 09:35 PM

Pretty worrying stuff about bupropion:

Bupropion, an atypical antidepressant, induces endoplasmic reticulum stress and caspase-dependent cytotoxicity in SH-SY5Y cells.

Bupropion is an atypical antidepressant that is currently used as a smoking cessation aid. Bupropion interferes with monoamine reuptake and is potentially neurotoxic, although this is yet to be confirmed. In this study, we evaluated the cytotoxicity of bupropion using SH-SY5Y human catecholaminergic cells as the in vitro model. Exposure of the cells to bupropion for 24h reduced their viability in a concentration-dependent manner. Treatment of the cells with a toxic concentration of bupropion (100μg/mL) induced the phosphorylation of eukaryotic initiation factor alpha (EIF-2α), c-JUN N-terminal kinase (JNK), and p38 mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) within 1h, which later declined to baseline levels. However, bupropion failed to splice X-box binding protein 1 (XBP1) mRNA. Bupropion caused mitochondrial cytochrome c release and activated caspases 9, 8, and 3 in a time-dependent manner. The reduction in cell viability was significantly inhibited by a caspase 3 inhibitor. Bupropion also induced the mRNA expression of the death receptors DR4 (TRAILR1) and DR5 (TRAILR2). However, bupropion did not increase the level of cellular oxidative stress. Taken together, our data indicate that bupropion activates caspase 3 through the induction of endoplasmic reticulum stress responses and activation of JNK, and consequently induces apoptotic cell death in SH-SY5Y cells.


and a few goodies from the full study:

In a clinical study, the bupropion concentration in human serum after a single oral dose, administered for smoking cessation, was about 0.1–1 μM (27.6–276 ng/mL) (Hsyu et al., 1997), which is lower than the concentration used in this study. However, the brain concentration of bupropion in animals treated with therapeutic doses was about 15–20-fold higher than the serum concentration, with no species differences (Butz et al., 1982). Moreover, the major metabolite of bupropion, hydroxybupropion, has similar activity to bupropion as a dopamine transporter, and can reach a plasma concentration 10–100 times that of bupropion ([Damaj et al., 2004] and [Hsyu et al., 1997]). Therefore, it is likely that the concentration of bupropion used in this study occurs in the brain under certain therapeutic or toxic conditions.


In conclusion, we have reported for the first time that bupropion shows significant cytotoxicity at toxic but clinically relevant concentrations. The cytotoxicity of bupropion may be caused by the combined and interactive mechanisms of the ER stress, mitochondrial stress, and extrinsic apoptotic pathways. The apoptotic systems activated by bupropion converge on the activation of caspase 3, so bupropion-induced cytotoxicity is dependent on caspase 3 activation.



#20 VoidPointer

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 11:01 PM

Bupropion Wiki Link

How it works: Link

What Bupropion is NOT(SSRI info): SSRI link

I'm still relatively new to this all so I just google the crap out of new concepts and I always have a dictionary near by as well!

I have not experienced an increase in sex drive...per say...

@ Iago: What information are you basing the quality of the generic vs GSK brand off of?



Thanks, I had seen some of that, but it was good to read again. I am starting Sunday, so I will update on my observations.
After reading all that one could come to the conclusion that it really is not any safer than regular stimulants. It does seem like a long acting 'Ritalin-lite' with the added bit of Norepinephrine.

#21 Jerebaldo

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 12:05 AM

The wikipedia article on bupropion suggests that the strongest effect of bupropion and its metabolites is to block nicotinic acetylcholine receptors.
The upside of this effect is that, like nmda blockade, it can blunt overwhelming cravings for pleasurable stimuli, such as euphoric stimulants.
The downside of nicotinic blockade is that it can interfere with short term memory or recall. With me, it seems to interfere with my memory as much as it alleviates depression. That's why I prefer fluoxetine.

#22 Jq82

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 04:09 AM

Basically what I could surmise(see below) is that caspase-3 can be activated in a number of situations as a causation of "extrinsic apoptotic pathways"...one of which can result in cerebral hypoxia -perhaps the seizure component of Wellbutrin...?

It seems reasonable to me that proper supplementation with antioxidants, proper hydration and vasodilators can help reduce possible cytotoxicity...


The endoplasmic reticulum stress response in immunity and autoimmunity
ER link

Molecular mechanisms of cerebral ischemia-induced neuronal death
Link to Mechanisms

Wiki link to Info on Cerebral Hypoxia


Selective, Reversible Caspase-3 Inhibitor Is Neuroprotective and Reveals Distinct Pathways of Cell Death after Neonatal Hypoxic-ischemic Brain Injury*


Hypoxic-ischemic (H-I)1encephalopathy in the prenatal and perinatal period is a major cause of morbidity and mortality and often results in cognitive impairment, seizures, and motor impairment leading to cerebral palsy (1, 2). Many studies of neonatal H-I brain injury have utilized the well characterized Levine model in which unilateral carotid ligation is followed by exposure to hypoxia in postnatal day (P) 7 rats (3-5). This model of H-I results in a reproducible pattern of hemispheric injury ipsilateral, but not contralateral, to the carotid ligation (5-7). There are prominent features of both apoptosis and necrosis when this model is performed in neonatal rats and mice (1, 8-11). Inhibition of caspases utilizing a pan-caspase inhibitor partially protects against brain injury after neonatal H-I injury in this model (12), and similar inhibitors have been shown to partially protect against ischemic injury in adult models (13-16). Previously utilized peptide-based caspase inhibitors (e.g. Boc-D-fmk, z-VAD-fmk, z-DEVD-fmk) required relatively large doses in vivo for their protective effects, and at high concentrations, their effects are more likely to be less selective. Thus, although these studies suggest a role for caspases, the specific caspases and other proteases, which contribute to brain injury after neonatal H-I, have not been clarified.

Info on Caspases:

Caspases are a family of cysteine aspartyl-specific proteases. They are mammalian homologues of CED-3, which is required for programmed cell death in the nematode Caenorhabditis elegans (17). To date, 13 mammalian caspases have been identified that share similarities in amino acid sequence, structure, and biochemical properties (18-20). They are normally expressed as proenzymes (30–50 kDa) comprising an N-terminal prodomain, a large subunit (∼20 kDa), and a small subunit (∼10 kDa). Activation of caspases requires proteolytic processing between domains and formation of a heterodimer containing the large and small subunits. Each activated caspase recognizes distinct tetrapeptide motifs leading to the diversity of substrate specificity and intracellular function (21). The apoptotic initiators (caspase-2, -8, -9, and -10) containing large N-terminal prodomains generally act upstream of small prodomain effector caspases (caspase-3, -6, and -7).

Caspase-3, among effector caspases, has been implicated in neuronal apoptosis during normal brain development and in delayed neuronal cell death after brain injury in the developing and adult brain (9, 22-25). Once activated, caspase-3 is directly responsible for proteolytic cleavages of a variety of fundamental proteins including cytoskeletal proteins, kinases, and DNA-repair enzymes (26-29). Caspase-3 activation can irreversibly commit cells to undergo morphological features of apoptosis including nuclear condensation and DNA fragmentation. At least two different initiator caspases, caspase 8 and 9, can be responsible for activation of caspase-3 through distinct cellular signaling pathways (30-39). Because caspase-3 is known to be a major contributor to the apoptotic machinery in many cell types, development of selective and potent caspase-3 inhibitors has emerged as a therapeutic target.

We have utilized a new small, reversible inhibitor of caspase-3, M826, to determine the role of caspase-3 after neonatal H-I as well as to develop a compound that may have therapeutic potential. M826 demonstrated high selectivity and potency toward caspase-3 in recombinant enzyme-based as well as whole cell-based assays. It also blocked almost all caspase-3 activation and its substrate cleavage after neonatal H-I. Despite this, early excitotoxic/necrotic cell death associated with calpain activation and cleavage but not activation of caspase-2 was still present in caspase-3 inhibitor-treated animals. Our results suggest that caspase-3 contributes to delayed cell death and that early events associated with calpain activation may be involved in the rapidly occurring excitotoxic/necrotic component of cell death after neonatal H-I.





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#23 iago

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 06:25 PM

@ Iago: What information are you basing the quality of the generic vs GSK brand off of?


I missed this. Sorry for the late reply. First, personal experience. The generics seemed less effective. Then I stumbled across some research on buproprion generics on consumerlab that suggested some generics were less effective.

This is the intro page on consumerlab: https://www.consumer...ion/Wellbutrin/
This is the FDA response they mention: http://www.drugs.com...00-mg-8093.html

My doctor was convinced that my response was a placebo-like effect. Basically, I thought that a generic was less effective, so I perceived it to be less effective. That really isn't the case. I have no problems with generics per se.

#24 VoidPointer

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 07:17 PM

So I have not noticed any major difference yet, other than I am grinding my teeth more than usual. Does not feel like stimulants, and I am not motivated at all.
I am not going to mix it with my regular ADD meds at this point, but if I get no improvement I will try that with a lesser dose.

#25 VoidPointer

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 04:47 PM

Uggh, got headaches and a ringing in my ears from this stuff. Also felt tense and was grinding my teeth. Had less side effects from Concerta for sure, with much better focus.
My mood was good, and my attention was slightly improved but, given the amount of side effects, not sure if it is worth it.
I will give a bit more time, but so far not that impressed.

#26 nupi

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 12:49 PM

Bupropion/Wellbutrin does NOT react the same in everyone...Ultranaut makes Wellbutrin seem like a wonder drug...

I am currently taking 150mg XR Bupropion with 10mg of Adderall in the AM along with my various noots/vitamins. Bupropion does not make me feel "Hypomanic" -on the other hand, SSRI's like Effexor or Lexapro make me feel "Hypomanic" to the point of saying inappropriate things leading to some unpleasant situations...and forget about sleeping.


Obviously the anti depressants do not work the same for all people. But his description is exactly the type of effect I am looking for. Personally, Effexor (150mg XR) neither made be hypomanic back in the days nor did it make me forget sleep. It did kinda screw with my sleeping patters for a while and often induced weird dreams (I usually do not remember dreams at all and used to sleep like a rock, which sadly has disappeared over the past 2 or 3 years, going much to the other direction) which I initially countered with Lorazepam and/or Diazepam. Both benzos had a very strong effect on me: they made me feel calm like I've never been before or after, kind of like how I suppose a really relaxing holiday should feel, but they also made me slow and ultimately I think I did a good thing quitting them, it feels like I could get seriously addicted to them. Even almost a decade later, I still occasionally long for that feeling...

I did get the Effexor to counter depression caused by a somewhat weird case of social anxiety (I had an intense fear of approaching strangers - especially women - but can dominate groups I know to extreme extent...). I have gotten better at managing it (even work in a job that can be very intense on personal interaction basis) but still fail to really to leverage that ability to improve my personal life. Another reason why I think that I may need to try something new, now that I am back at school for a while...

Edited by nupi, 06 April 2011 - 12:52 PM.


#27 longevitynow

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 10:35 PM

Is it a drug that you can take on an 'as needed' basis, or does it need to build up in your system before it is effective?

Oh yeah, are the rumors of increased sex drive true? Because I really do not have problems there, and I cannot waste any more time chasing tail.


It does need to build up to be effective, at least in most people. In my case I felt it right away when I first started on it, I don't think that is typical though. It did noticeably build in effects during the first week or so. Within a couple days of starting on it I'd quit smoking even though I hadn't intended to. Now, as long as I take it at least 3 times per week I can usually feel it working to some extent (there's a distinct difference smoking a cigarette while on it so it's been easy to tell when it's out of my system). Normal dosing for the XL version is daily in the morning, I imagine if you want something "as needed" then the SR version may be a better choice. It's probably not very well suited to that type of use though, if you want to try it out and really get a feel for the full range of effects I'd give it a week or three of regular daily dosing.

The increased sex drive is very true. It also increases the potential for multiple orgasms, at least in me it does. That was quite the surprise the first time it happened. In general, I'd say it is a very pro-sexual drug in the "more and better" sense: You will want it more and it will be better when you do it.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that it does reduce appetite. It doesn't feel like the more typical stimulant-induced appetite suppression where eating isn't pleasant when you try to, if anything it's more pleasant. Instead it's more like you just don't feel particularly hungry and thus forget to eat. It's much like how it effects cigarettes, I still enjoy them and will have one if offered or as part of a social interaction, but I just don't feel the urge to have one. Without that urge it's like you forget to smoke, you forget you are a smoker, then you realize you aren't sure when you last smoked one. The effect on appetite isn't nearly as profound as on cigarette addiction but it is definitely there and likely will lead to a change in eating habits. I used to come home and my girlfriend would ask what I'd had for lunch, and I'd think about it a bit and then realize I never even took a lunch break.



I know several people who took Welbutrin for very short periods, a dose to a few days, and felt it "jump-started" their brain. I imagine they were dopamine deficient, and the sudden jump in dopamine made them feel significantly better. I prefer liquid Deprenyl for a similar effect, but people are different. Anyway, just reporting that Welbutrin may work quickly, even in one dose.

#28 Moddy2012

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 04:55 AM

My doc loves this med, and gives to patients who are stopping their stim meds. He says it works for about 50% of ADHD patients.

I guess my questions are;

how does it to compare to Concerta or Focalin in terms of ADD management?

Does it negatively affect sleep patterns?

what are the common side effects?

Is the seizure risk related to Wellbutrin any higher than other stimulants?

Most feedback I have seen has been initially positive, but then most people end up stopping after a 1 year. If it is so great why stop?

Thanks


Wellbutrin is mostly used as an anti depressant than an ADD medication. It has been shown to help with ADD but its not used as widely as medications such as Ritalin and Adderall. It also has some nasty withdrawal symptoms. I initially thought of this drug but I use Modafinil as my main nootropic. Modafinil is medium strength in terms of its nootropic effects, stronger than coffee but not as strong as Ritalin/Adderall. I like it because it does not make me crash.

Edited by Moddy2012, 07 April 2011 - 04:56 AM.


#29 unregistered_user

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 11:45 PM

I've been on it for just under a week. Too bad I opted for the generic (manufactured by Anchen) when given the option. The brand name was only $20 more. So far no negative effects to report on. Mostly subtle positives. I'll need to give it more time before I can accurately post about its effects on me. I was prescribed it for ADHD and mild depression.

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#30 VoidPointer

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 11:35 PM

for those interested here is an update after a couple of months on Wellbutrin;

the good;

  • slightly improved mood
  • slightly increased sex drive
  • decreased interest in alcohol

the bad;

  • grinding of teeth
  • disturbed sleep
  • noticeable surges and ebbs of medication feeling
  • headaches

Overall not that impressive actually. At the higher doses(300 mg per day) there was some improvements of ADD symptoms, but at best 25-35% of the effect of Concerta. The funny thing is that it feels physically much like MPH, but without the focus. Focalin is much more effective with less side effects(for me at least).

Most of the time while on Wellbutrin I did not take my usual ADD meds. The combination with Concerta was the best combo, while the combination with Focalin was not impressive(better off not mixing).

It has been about two months, so I am debating if I should continue. I am not convinced it is that effective or that it is less risky that MPH.

Do I need to wait longer than 2 months?




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