14 replies to this topic

[solbanger]

Gallbladder removal is one of the most common surgical procedures in the US. For the longest time doctors assumed that people were okay living without a functioning gallbladder since it is simply a reservoir of bile.

But new research finds that those people diagnosed with gallbladder disease, which often results in removal, have a whopping increased risk of dying from heart disease by 50 percent and cancer by 30 percent!

http://www.aarp.org/...allbladder.html

According to the AARP article "One in every two diagnoses of gallstones results in removal of the organ." So basically if your gallbladder inflames and they find a stone you can kiss your organ goodbye.

I know there was an experimental procedure in the 80s that would inject gasoline additive (methyl- something) into the gallbladder in order to dissolve the stones and suck them out, but I haven't heard of this technique spreading as of late.

My question is if there has been an effort to clone human gallbladders? I know that most doctors consider the gallbladder an insignificant organ in the digestive process but in light of this evidence has there been any research into replacement clones? It would appear that doctors undervalued the organ's importance as the canary in the coalmine when it comes to heart disease and inflammation.

Edited by solbanger, 07 March 2011 - 07:20 PM.

[1kgcoffee]

Or maybe it's the high fat diet which leads to gallstones.

[solbanger]

Or maybe it's the high fat diet which leads to gallstones.

Right, so let's just not do anything to fix it and wag fingers at those who succumb to it. Including the elderly and pregnant women!

[Skötkonung]

Or maybe it's the high fat diet which leads to gallstones.

I'm pretty sure it's not just a high fat diet. Researchers are learning that it may be due to a magnesium deficiency (or imbalance). Ideally magnesium should be balanced with calcium intake. However, due to soil depletion, magnesium content in our foods as declined significantly and increased dairy consumption has caused a major imbalance.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=18076730

My mother had her gallbadder removed. She's had some digestive problems since the surgery, but on a whole she is much better than when she had the stones. I don't know if having the gallbladder removed is what's causing the risk of death, or if it is the nutrient imbalance that caused the stones to form in the first place.

A recent issue of the Journal of the American College of Nutrition contains an article showing that as consumption of magnesium fell, the levels of C-reactive protein went up.
The paper points out that the majority of adults in the US (68%) don’t consume even the RDA of magnesium, which is, as far as I’m concerned, woefully low. Magnesium is an unbelievably important mineral for all sorts of body processes. Some 300+ enzymes use magnesium as a cofactor; magnesium helps regulate potassium status; magnesium acts as nature’s own calcium channel blocker, helping blood pressure stay down and blood vessels stay pliable; magnesium builds bones; magnesium is anti-inflammatory. The list of magnesium’s virtues goes on and on.

In fact, there exists an entire school of thought that posits that the entire Metabolic Syndrome is nothing but a manifestation of a a magnesium deficiency. Which isn’t as crazy as it sounds since virtually all the components of the Metabolic Syndrome: diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity and lipid disorders are associated with low magnesium.

As for whether they are having any success cloning a gallbladder... I know they've cloned a regular bladder so I imagine they'll create one soon enough.

[niner]

From Wiki article on the gallbladder:

The adult human gallbladder stores about 50 milliliters of bile, which is released into the duodenum when food containing fat enters the digestive tract, stimulating the secretion of cholecystokinin (CCK). The bile, produced in the liver, emulsifies fats in partly digested food.

During storage in the gallbladder, bile becomes more concentrated which increases its potency and intensifies its effect on fats.

In 2009, it was demonstrated that the gallbladder removed from a patient expressed several pancreatic hormones including insulin.[5] This was surprising because until then, it was thought that insulin was only produced in pancreatic β-cells. This study provides evidence that β-like cells do occur outside the human pancreas.

Without a gallbladder, do you still get bile secretion into the GI tract? If so, it sounds like it might not be at the right time or concentration. These things alone would alter digestion of lipids, and might impact the bioavailability of lipid-soluble micronutrients. Beyond that, there's the issue of other pancreatic hormones; I don't know how much you get from the gallbladder, but they're important substances.

[mwestbro]

I hesitate to throw this in, because it is the worst kind of "n of 1" anecdote, but I was having classic gallbladder stone symptoms. I treated myself with Thermolife Liver Longer TUDCA (an oral bile acid), Rowachol (a mixture of plant terpenes), and milk thistle. After roughly six months, my symptoms were gone. When my doc finally got around to doing an ultrasound, there were no stones. I wouldn't want anyone to try this on the basis of my experience, because I have no proof that I even had stones to begin with. Nonetheless, I feel fine, and I still have my gallbladder.

Mike

[rsg]

Google the terms "FXR receptor" and "gallstones".

Remember there are two general types of gallstones, cholesterol gallstones and calcium stones. The gallbladder can also be damaged for infected, requiring removal.

However, in some studies, it appears that the introduction of an agonist for the farnesoid X receptor will reduce the development of cholesterol gallstones, and also improve liver function and insulin reaction. Of course, as usual, more research is needed. Cholecystectomy may one day be quite rare, much as tonsillectomies are much less frequent than they once were.

As for "cloning" the gallbladder... more likely we will find a way to regenerate it, either in vivo or in vitro, but not any time soon.
Google "organ printing" for more.

Edited by rsg, 16 March 2011 - 07:50 PM.

[fighter]

However, in some studies, it appears that the introduction of an agonist for the farnesoid X receptor will reduce the development of cholesterol gallstones, and also improve liver function and insulin reaction. Of course, as usual, more research is needed. Cholecystectomy may one day be quite rare, much as tonsillectomies are much less frequent than they once were.

Hi, did you really say agonist?? Not antagonist? I took Guggul for a very long time and it is an FXR antagonist :(

[rsg]

No, "agonist" is the correct term for what I was describing.

From Wikipedia: "An agonist is a chemical that binds to a receptor of a cell and triggers a response by that cell. Agonists often mimic the action of a naturally occurring substance. Whereas an agonist causes an action, an antagonist blocks the action of the agonist and an inverse agonist causes an action opposite to that of the agonist." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agonist)

The goal is to stimulate the functions of the FXR to cause the described results. This would require the use of an agonist for the cellular receptor. (See Prevention of cholesterol gallstone disease by FXR agonists in a mouse model for more information.)

"Agonist" is a term rarely used outside pharmacology and biochemistry, even though it does have other, non-medical definitions. I understand the confusion.

[fighter]

No, "agonist" is the correct term for what I was describing.

"Agonist" is a term rarely used outside pharmacology and biochemistry, even though it does have other, non-medical definitions. I understand the confusion.

RSG, I ask because for 3-4 years, i took a supposed FXR antagonist called guggul/ guggulsterone for my acne. It worked but now I've lost hair, had gallstones, now had my gall bladder taken out, and my muscles are wasting away.

Can you kindly help me please find an FXR agonist I can take OTC? I found chenodeoxycholic acid as an agonist, but it's Rx. Is there something that can activate FXR? Please I am wasting away rapidly, my nasal cartilage is going too fast and the doctors have ruled out so many conditions that they still can't find a cause ;(

[niner]

I ask because for 3-4 years, i took a supposed FXR antagonist called guggul/ guggulsterone for my acne. It worked but now I've lost hair, had gallstones, now had my gall bladder taken out, and my muscles are wasting away.

Can you kindly help me please find an FXR agonist I can take OTC? I found chenodeoxycholic acid as an agonist, but it's Rx. Is there something that can activate FXR? Please I am wasting away rapidly, my nasal cartilage is going too fast and the doctors have ruled out so many conditions that they still can't find a cause ;(

Fighter, do you no longer connect these symptoms to the D-Ribose/low carb hypoglycemic event? Was that a red herring, or do you think that it was involved in triggering a situation that was set up initially by guggul? Could you have a micronutrient deficiency due to malabsorption caused by either a messed up or missing gallbladder?

What's your diet like?

[fighter]

I ask because for 3-4 years, i took a supposed FXR antagonist called guggul/ guggulsterone for my acne. It worked but now I've lost hair, had gallstones, now had my gall bladder taken out, and my muscles are wasting away.

Can you kindly help me please find an FXR agonist I can take OTC? I found chenodeoxycholic acid as an agonist, but it's Rx. Is there something that can activate FXR? Please I am wasting away rapidly, my nasal cartilage is going too fast and the doctors have ruled out so many conditions that they still can't find a cause ;(

Fighter, do you no longer connect these symptoms to the D-Ribose/low carb hypoglycemic event? Was that a red herring, or do you think that it was involved in triggering a situation that was set up initially by guggul? Could you have a micronutrient deficiency due to malabsorption caused by either a messed up or missing gallbladder?

What's your diet like?

Hi, niner. Thank you for your constant input. I still think any of those three supplements ribose, carnitine, or guggul might have contributed to it. My new primary is going to send me to a speech therapist. I am now having issues on swallowing, spontaneous choking sensations and progressive mouth atrophy (tongue, soft palate, tonsils, opening behind tonsils, gums, etc). I wish I could go to UCSF but I don't know where to begin, and the Stanford neuro has a long waiting list.

My diet is Zone 40/30/30 ratio, went gluten free for a while, then came back to gluten but still dairy free, although I ate some cheese lately, but no cow's milk. I get cystic acne from taking Biotin, Taurine, milk, cheese, arginine, probiotics. Not sure why. But biotin is known for causing breakouts, for those prone to breaking out, at least.

I was thinking there might have been some metabolic dysregulation/imbalance that happened when i took ribose or even guggul...? I'm not sure but it could be. I still had my gall bladder when all of this happened

[Adaptogen]

sorry to bump an old topic, but my dad came back from a gallbladder ultrasound today, and they recommended that his gallbladder be removed.

it was functioning, although not very well. It finally took a dose of morphine to increase pressure in the bile duct enough for imaging.

 

does anyone have any new recommendations regarding removal? I'd be interested in getting him on a consistent course of bile acids if I had reason to believe that might be an effective treatment of chronic cholecystitis, rather than just a treatment of the symptoms.

[zorba990]

I ask because for 3-4 years, i took a supposed FXR antagonist called guggul/ guggulsterone for my acne. It worked but now I've lost hair, had gallstones, now had my gall bladder taken out, and my muscles are wasting away.

Can you kindly help me please find an FXR agonist I can take OTC? I found chenodeoxycholic acid as an agonist, but it's Rx. Is there something that can activate FXR? Please I am wasting away rapidly, my nasal cartilage is going too fast and the doctors have ruled out so many conditions that they still can't find a cause ;(

Fighter, do you no longer connect these symptoms to the D-Ribose/low carb hypoglycemic event? Was that a red herring, or do you think that it was involved in triggering a situation that was set up initially by guggul? Could you have a micronutrient deficiency due to malabsorption caused by either a messed up or missing gallbladder?

What's your diet like?

Hi, niner. Thank you for your constant input. I still think any of those three supplements ribose, carnitine, or guggul might have contributed to it. My new primary is going to send me to a speech therapist. I am now having issues on swallowing, spontaneous choking sensations and progressive mouth atrophy (tongue, soft palate, tonsils, opening behind tonsils, gums, etc). I wish I could go to UCSF but I don't know where to begin, and the Stanford neuro has a long waiting list.

My diet is Zone 40/30/30 ratio, went gluten free for a while, then came back to gluten but still dairy free, although I ate some cheese lately, but no cow's milk. I get cystic acne from taking Biotin, Taurine, milk, cheese, arginine, probiotics. Not sure why. But biotin is known for causing breakouts, for those prone to breaking out, at least.

I was thinking there might have been some metabolic dysregulation/imbalance that happened when i took ribose or even guggul...? I'm not sure but it could be. I still had my gall bladder when all of this happened

This is sounding like auto immune diesease like MS or ALS

[tunt01]

sorry to bump an old topic, but my dad came back from a gallbladder ultrasound today, and they recommended that his gallbladder be removed.
it was functioning, although not very well. It finally took a dose of morphine to increase pressure in the bile duct enough for imaging.

does anyone have any new recommendations regarding removal? I'd be interested in getting him on a consistent course of bile acids if I had reason to believe that might be an effective treatment of chronic cholecystitis, rather than just a treatment of the symptoms.

Avoid dietary fats. Take bile salts and fat soluble vitamins. Have a high fiber diet.

That being said, it's far better to keep the gallbladder and repair it, but almost no doctors recommend it, because they make more money cutting it out and are risk averse.