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Vitamin B12, DHA, and brain shrinkage


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#1 Skötkonung

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 09:37 PM


According to a study done at the University of Oxford, those on a meat-free diet six times more likely to suffer brain shrinkage. The reduction in size is thought to be caused by vitamin B12 deficiency.

Other studies have confirmed similar findings:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20187536
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19817650
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16197315
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15918275
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12460231
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11194532
http://www.ajcn.org/...short/78/1/3#R2
http://www.ajcn.org/...pe2=tf_ipsecsha
http://www.ajcn.org/...stract/50/4/818

Some studies show up to 58% of vegetarians are deficient in B12. This is surprising given that many modern vegetarian foods are supplemented with B12 and it infers that obviously vegetarians / vegans aren't supplementing enough. But the brain shrinkage trend doesn't just exist in the meatless group. In adults over 50, some studies have found vitamin B12 deficiency in nearly 40% of the sampled individuals. The implication is that our modern diet may not be providing adequate B12.

Another interesting observation about the brain/diet connection comes from recently updated and more rigorous analysis of changes in brain size in humans over the last 1.8 million years. Ruff, Trinkaus, and Holliday found that encephalization quotient (EQ) began reaching its peak with the first anatomically modern humans of approximately 90,000 years ago and has since remained fairly constant. Most surprisingly, however, absolute brain size has decreased by 11% since 35,000 years ago, with most of this decrease (8%) coming in just the last 10,000 years. (The decrease in absolute brain size has been paralleled by roughly similar decreases in body size during the same period, resulting in EQ values that have remained roughly the same as before.)

This data suggests two points. The first point, relating to EQ, is subject to two possible interpretations, at least on the face of it. One interpretation (characterized by somewhat wishful thinking) might be that, if we disregard the absolute decrease in brain and body size, and focus only on EQ, we can observe that EQ has remained constant over the last 10,000-35,000 years. One could then further conjecture that this implies humans have in some sense been successful in maintaining dietary quality during this time period, even considering the significant dietary changes that came with the advent of the agricultural revolution (roughly the last 10,000 years). However, the problem with such an interpretation is exactly that it depends on disregarding the information that overall body size diminished along with brain size--a most important point which needs to be taken into account.

The alternate, and more plausible and genetically consistent interpretation begins by noting that EQ represents a genetically governed trait determined by our evolutionary heritage. Hence one would not expect EQ itself to have changed materially in just 10,000 years, as it would be unlikely such a brief period of evolutionary time could have been long enough for the actual genetics governing EQ (that is, relative brain size compared to body size) to have changed significantly regardless of dietary or other conditions.

This brings up the second point, which is that the specific question here concerns a slightly different issue: the absolute decrease in brain size rather than the issue of EQ. Since the greatest majority of this decrease took place in just the last 10,000 years, a genetic mutation is no more likely as an explanation for the decrease in absolute brain size than it is for relative brain size, or EQ. This leaves us once again with a physiological/biochemical mechanism as the responsible factor, which of course puts diet squarely into the picture.

This leaves us with the indication that there has likely been some kind of recent historical shortfall in some aspect of overall human nutrition, one that presents a limiting factor preventing the body/brain from reaching their complete genetic potential in terms of absolute physical development. The most obvious and far-reaching dietary change during the last 10,000 years has, of course, been the precipitous drop in animal food consumption (from perhaps 50% of diet to 10% in some cases) with the advent of agriculture, accompanied by a large rise in grain consumption--a pattern that persists today.

The most plausible current hypothesis for the biological mechanism(s) responsible for the absolute decrease in brain size is that the shortfall in consumption of animal foods since the late Paleolithic has brought with it a consequent shortfall in consumption of preformed long-chain fatty acids [Eaton and Eaton]. Specifically, for optimal growth, the brain is dependent on the fatty acids DHA (docosahexaenoic acid), DTA (docosatetraenoic acid), and AA (arachidonic acid) during development to support its growth during the formative years, particularly infancy. These are far more plentiful in animal foods than plant.

Of course a lack of animal foods also precipitates a lack of B12 consumption. So we could have two possible mechanisms for the reduction in brain mass seen in modern humans.
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#2 Mari

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 10:08 PM

This is why I'm not a vegan. That is the same conclusion I've reached too. The more we learn, the more it seems animal foods are necessary for optimal health.

Edited by Mari, 01 April 2011 - 10:08 PM.


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#3 Skötkonung

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 11:25 PM

This is why I'm not a vegan. That is the same conclusion I've reached too. The more we learn, the more it seems animal foods are necessary for optimal health.


Agreed. Even vegetarians and vegans are starting to realize the importance of animal nutrients.

Dr. Michael Greger M.D. ("The Vegan MD") has a very informative lecture Optimum Vegetarian Nutrition: Surprising New Research on Omega 3's and B12. In a nutshell, vegetarians & vegans don't live any longer than omnivores -- as shown in a study of 28,000 subjects. Vegetarians & vegans have the same rates of coronary heart disease as omnivores but double the rates of Alzheimer's Disease. The cause seems to be B12 and EFA deficiency.

#4 TheFountain

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 01:09 AM

ScienceDaily (June 11, 2005) — Brain shrinkage, a common symptom of ageing when people hit their 60's, appears to have no impact on an individual's capacity to think or learn, according to Australian National University research.


Professor Helen Christensen, the Director of the Centre for Mental Health Research (CMHR), said the findings challenged traditional beliefs about the impact of ageing on the brain.


"The common belief is that the brain shrinks with age and that this shrinkage is linked to poorer memory and thinking. There is also a belief that greater education, or continued, sustained intellectual activity might allow people to better accommodate the effects of brain ageing," Professor Christensen said. "Our findings do not support these beliefs. It is known that the brain shrinks over the course of a person's life, although the exact trajectory is not well understood, and there are huge individual differences.

"In this study, we found that, on average, men aged 64 years have smaller brains than men aged 60. However, despite this shrinkage, cognitive functions - like memory, attention and speed of processing - are unaffected.

"In the present study, we found no relationship between brain shrinkage and education level".

Low educational attainment has been found to predict the development of major memory difficulties and the recognition of dementia in previous work. However, little is known about whether education is protective of brain changes in the general population.

"Our findings do not support the role of education in protecting against either brain change or cognitive performance.

These findings are good news for the large proportion of baby boomers out there - and probably better news for the baby boomer women who show no evidence of brain shrinkage over this short period of time".

The ANU researchers conducted a combination of MRI scans and surveys of 446 people in their 60's in Canberra and Queanbeyan.

Their findings are the latest from the PATH Through Life project, which was initiated by the CMHR in 1999.

Other outcomes of the project have included:

  • Strong associations between childhood adversity and adult depression. Factors most strongly related to depression include: mother's depression, reports of neglectful upbringing, too much physical punishment, having an unaffectionate father, and experiencing a lot of family conflict.
  • Bisexual people tended to suffer more from anxiety, depression and suicidal tendency than homosexual or heterosexual study participants.
  • Young Australian adults are the least likely to obtain GP care, compared to other age groups - despite evidence of significant mental health problems, such as tendencies towards suicide and substance abuse. The study found that those who used GPs were most likely to be female, to have been or be undertaking higher education and to be living with children. Young adults were also identified as having poorer physical health, more chronic diseases and higher levels of suicidal ideation when regularly using marijuana.
  • Elevated symptoms of depression, anxiety and negativity were related to levels of tobacco consumption and marijuana use for both young men and women.
"The PATH Through Life project is set to shed much information on health, wealth and happiness, and hopefully show the way for health care and targeting of support to better meet the needs of individuals at different stages of life," Professor Christensen said.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050611153907.htm

Edited by TheFountain, 02 April 2011 - 01:10 AM.


#5 TheFountain

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 01:11 AM

^^^^^ So it appears everyones brains shrink as they age. And the link between cognitive function and brain size appears to be arbitrary. yay

#6 TheFountain

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 01:15 AM

By the way, people who do veganism or vegetarianism and do not supplement B vitamins, my goodness what dumb bastards they already are prior to their brains aparently shrinking........

#7 e Volution

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 03:03 AM

Top notch as always Skot. I remember probably around a year ago now having a personal discussion with you, and worrying that you may one day force me to give up meat in my/our pursuits of life extension, and you laughingly agreeing with this horrible prospect being plausible! It seems we have come some way in just that small space of time, as I now have little doubt that a meat-based diet is optimal (a dozen caveats aside).

I know Sillewater is investigating this issue also, I think dubbing some of the other meat based things under "Carninutrients". What do you think about some of these other things like creatine?

I've started to supplement, for example, creatine, and B12 (Methylcobalamin), at low doses, just really as an insurance policy. Like with creatine at a low non-bodybuilding dose of 1-3g/few days week just to cover days where I may have not consumed much (say I just ate some fish and/or chicken). Obviously EPA/DHA is taken care of in fish oil and try to get 1g/day minimum.

Edited by e Volution, 02 April 2011 - 03:04 AM.


#8 Skötkonung

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 05:43 AM

^^^^^ So it appears everyones brains shrink as they age. And the link between cognitive function and brain size appears to be arbitrary. yay

I gather you glossed over most of what I wrote and probably didn't bother to check any of the links. That's okay, I'll summarize some main points:

If you look at the studies analyzing brain shrinkage, they found a statistically significant correlation between brain size and B12 intake. This correlation was found across all age groups. The paleolithic and neolithic skulls analyzed also used skulls from individuals primarily between 20 and 30. In other words, they were comparing similar cohorts (not just the elderly) with B12 intake being a primary difference.

I'm also not sure a nearly double risk in Alzheimer's disease would be considered arbitrary either... that's what has been seen in people are B12 deficient, regardless of diet. Yes the brain may shrink with age, but it may shrink in a accelerated pathological way when B12 intake is not adequate. What's interesting about some of the studies I posted above is that researchers found B12 deficiency amongst a large percentage of vegetarians and vegans who were consuming B12 fortified foods, or even taking B12 supplements. Even more startling is that they found B12 deficiency amongst omnivores and lacto-ovo vegetarians.

This indicates that the RDI for B12 may be significantly higher than originally thought, and it may increase with age. It also reinforces the importance of getting adequate pre-formed long chain EFAs, particularly when the brain is developing. Both B12 and long chain EFAs are also being used to treat Alzheimer's disease.

Edited by Skötkonung, 02 April 2011 - 05:49 AM.

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#9 Skötkonung

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 05:58 AM

Something else to think about... I've just finished reading a book by Henry Lorin called Alzheimer's Solved. In it, he hypothesizes that the brain shrinkage seen in Alzheimer's patients is caused by the lack of dietary cholesterol availablity for repair of neuron cell walls. (Although studies have shown infants make all the cholesterol they need, other studies have shown that adult brains utilize dietary cholesterol).


Mr. Lorin states further that the amyloid molecules found in the plaques of Alzheimer brains are used as a temporary repair mechanism because of the lack of available cholesterol molecules. There is also a paper by Iwo Bohr published in Lipid World which puts forth a similar hypothesis. It seems to me that vegetarians could also show brain shrinkage because they don't get enough dietary cholesterol.


The 'Tau' protein tangles seen in Alzheimer's have puzzled me as tau proteins are made via the mevalonate pathway, which is the pathway over which cholesterol is also synthesised. I couldn't see why the body would make a substance which is essential (cholesterol) and another which seems to be harmful (tau proteins).

This could well be the explanation: tau proteins are made when cholesterol level is too low for some reason.


#10 TheFountain

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 10:52 AM

^^^^^ So it appears everyones brains shrink as they age. And the link between cognitive function and brain size appears to be arbitrary. yay

I gather you glossed over most of what I wrote and probably didn't bother to check any of the links. That's okay, I'll summarize some main points:

If you look at the studies analyzing brain shrinkage, they found a statistically significant correlation between brain size and B12 intake. This correlation was found across all age groups. The paleolithic and neolithic skulls analyzed also used skulls from individuals primarily between 20 and 30. In other words, they were comparing similar cohorts (not just the elderly) with B12 intake being a primary difference.

I'm also not sure a nearly double risk in Alzheimer's disease would be considered arbitrary either... that's what has been seen in people are B12 deficient, regardless of diet. Yes the brain may shrink with age, but it may shrink in a accelerated pathological way when B12 intake is not adequate. What's interesting about some of the studies I posted above is that researchers found B12 deficiency amongst a large percentage of vegetarians and vegans who were consuming B12 fortified foods, or even taking B12 supplements. Even more startling is that they found B12 deficiency amongst omnivores and lacto-ovo vegetarians.

This indicates that the RDI for B12 may be significantly higher than originally thought, and it may increase with age. It also reinforces the importance of getting adequate pre-formed long chain EFAs, particularly when the brain is developing. Both B12 and long chain EFAs are also being used to treat Alzheimer's disease.


Skot I knew it said that this brain shrinkage occurred in younger people, the reason i posted the article, or rather what I found important about it was the seeming lack of correlation between brain size and cognitive decline. Which could reintroduce the idea of regional atrophy once more. That said, I think people who go vegetarian or vegan and who are dumb enough not to supplement B vitamins adequately deserve to have their chances of alzheimers doubled. It's one of those 'darwin award' moments.

#11 Thorsten3

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 07:44 PM

That said, I think people who go vegetarian or vegan and who are dumb enough not to supplement B vitamins adequately deserve to have their chances of alzheimers doubled. It's one of those 'darwin award' moments.


'Deserve' in what sense? Just because someone decides to go vegetarian doesn't mean they are lower than you in some way and nobody deserves to get something as horrible as alzheimers.
You want to be careful how you're coming across as you wouldn't want people to think you're a bit of a numpty.

Edited by Thorsten, 02 April 2011 - 07:45 PM.


#12 TheFountain

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 12:55 AM

That said, I think people who go vegetarian or vegan and who are dumb enough not to supplement B vitamins adequately deserve to have their chances of alzheimers doubled. It's one of those 'darwin award' moments.


'Deserve' in what sense? Just because someone decides to go vegetarian doesn't mean they are lower than you in some way and nobody deserves to get something as horrible as alzheimers.
You want to be careful how you're coming across as you wouldn't want people to think you're a bit of a numpty.


Let me clarify something. I am vegetarian. Now vegan actually. I make a distinction between smart veganism and stupid veganism (which is basically just the typical western diet without meat). So put that back into context with what I said. And I don't care how I come off. My point is that stupidity gives veganism a bad name.

#13 adamh

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:50 PM

I'm a vegetarian though not vegan. I supplement with creatine, b vitamins and take bcaa's every day. I think that along with the fish oil and other goodies i take should make up for the lack of meat in the diet. I also take piracetam which should offer some brain protection.
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#14 inkyoto

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 03:53 AM

Something else to think about... I've just finished reading a book by Henry Lorin called Alzheimer's Solved. In it, he hypothesizes that the brain shrinkage seen in Alzheimer's patients is caused by the lack of dietary cholesterol availablity for repair of neuron cell walls. (Although studies have shown infants make all the cholesterol they need, other studies have shown that adult brains utilize dietary cholesterol).

Mr. Lorin states further that the amyloid molecules found in the plaques of Alzheimer brains are used as a temporary repair mechanism because of the lack of available cholesterol molecules. There is also a paper by Iwo Bohr published in Lipid World which puts forth a similar hypothesis. It seems to me that vegetarians could also show brain shrinkage because they don't get enough dietary cholesterol.

The 'Tau' protein tangles seen in Alzheimer's have puzzled me as tau proteins are made via the mevalonate pathway, which is the pathway over which cholesterol is also synthesised. I couldn't see why the body would make a substance which is essential (cholesterol) and another which seems to be harmful (tau proteins).

This could well be the explanation: tau proteins are made when cholesterol level is too low for some reason.


The jury is still open on the Alzheimer's origin. There has been a report recently stating that Alzheimer's might originate in the liver, not in the brain:

Sutcliffe's gene hunt offered up good matches, candidates, for each of the three disease modifier genes discovered by the Case Western scientists, and one of these candidates—the mouse gene corresponding to a gene known to predispose humans carrying particular variations of it to develop early-onset Alzheimer's disease—was of special interest to his team.

"The product of that gene, called Presenilin2, is part of an enzyme complex involved in the generation of pathogenic beta amyloid," Sutcliffe explained. "Unexpectedly, heritable expression of Presenilin2 was found in the liver but not in the brain. Higher expression of Presenilin2 in the liver correlated with greater accumulation of beta amyloid in the brain and development of Alzheimer's-like pathology."

This finding suggested that significant concentrations of beta amyloid might originate in the liver, circulate in the blood, and enter the brain. If true, blocking production of beta amyloid in the liver should protect the brain.


The full article is here: http://www.physorg.c...er-plaques.html with the link to the published study at the end of the article.

#15 Destiny's Equation

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 05:17 AM

That said, I think people who go vegetarian or vegan and who are dumb enough not to supplement B vitamins adequately deserve to have their chances of alzheimers doubled. It's one of those 'darwin award' moments.


'Deserve' in what sense? Just because someone decides to go vegetarian doesn't mean they are lower than you in some way and nobody deserves to get something as horrible as alzheimers.
You want to be careful how you're coming across as you wouldn't want people to think you're a bit of a numpty.


Text has no mannerisms.

That comment could have been said in an unpleasant "fuck them" tone of voice, or could just as easily have been said in a "Uh...WTF? They do that? Lol! (makes hand gesture) Um yeah, they deserve it (nods and raises eyebrow)" tone if voice.

On other message boards I have made similar comments in a perfectly good-natured tone, only to have people get horribly insulted and cut off all contact with me.

Fountain - my advice would be to keep in mind that on the internet anything that can be interpreted as offensive, will be. Hope this helps :)

#16 TheFountain

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 08:22 AM

That said, I think people who go vegetarian or vegan and who are dumb enough not to supplement B vitamins adequately deserve to have their chances of alzheimers doubled. It's one of those 'darwin award' moments.


'Deserve' in what sense? Just because someone decides to go vegetarian doesn't mean they are lower than you in some way and nobody deserves to get something as horrible as alzheimers.
You want to be careful how you're coming across as you wouldn't want people to think you're a bit of a numpty.


Text has no mannerisms.

That comment could have been said in an unpleasant "fuck them" tone of voice, or could just as easily have been said in a "Uh...WTF? They do that? Lol! (makes hand gesture) Um yeah, they deserve it (nods and raises eyebrow)" tone if voice.

On other message boards I have made similar comments in a perfectly good-natured tone, only to have people get horribly insulted and cut off all contact with me.

Fountain - my advice would be to keep in mind that on the internet anything that can be interpreted as offensive, will be. Hope this helps :)


In that sense the word 'hello' can be interpreted as 'fuck off and die'. I was being sarcastic for the most part. What I meant is that anyone dumb enough not to look into what their basic deficiencies are when entering a diet like gives the rest of us a bad name. And it makes alot of people reluctant to want to try it.

#17 neue regel

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 11:03 PM

"those on a meat-free diet six times more likely to suffer brain shrinkage" Another misleading study. Ever heard of B12 supplements?




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