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Iodine Deficiency - Does your diet put you at risk?


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#31 Michael

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 07:37 PM

Happily, I've discovered a good iodine supplement.

Why did you choose this form of iodine and this specific company 'now foods'? Research or just happenstance?

it's hellishly hard to find ANY standalone iodine supplement ...NOW appears to me to be a generally reliable source for commodity-item supplements.

I ask because I am considering trying out this liquid version of potassium iodide. It's cheap and I can more easily control the dose than having to cut pills up into four pieces or what have you.

http://www.iherb.com...l/7775?at=0&x=1

As a rule, I don't trust small American supplement companies unless they have their manufacturing done by a facility licensed to do OTC drugs. DSHEA, the starving of the FDA, and the incessant legal and lobbying efforts of the industry have delayed and diluted the supplement GMPs to death, and made it about as likely that dietary supplement companies' facilities will be inspected as that they'll be hit by a North Korean missile.
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#32 TheFountain

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 08:12 PM

<br />

Happily, I've discovered a <a href='http://www.nowfoods....cts/M035736.htm' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>good iodine supplement</a>.

<br />Why did you choose this form of iodine and this specific company 'now foods'? Research or just happenstance?

<br />it's hellishly hard to find ANY standalone iodine supplement ...NOW appears to me to be a generally reliable source for commodity-item supplements.

<br />I ask because I am considering trying out this liquid version of potassium iodide. It's cheap and I can more easily control the dose than having to cut pills up into four pieces or what have you. <br /><br /><a href='http://www.iherb.com...75?at=0&#38;x=1' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.iherb.com...t=0&#38;x=1</a>

<br />As a rule, I don't trust small American supplement companies unless they have their manufacturing done by a facility licensed to do OTC drugs. DSHEA, the starving of the FDA, and the incessant legal and lobbying efforts of the industry have delayed and diluted the supplement GMPs to death, and made it about as likely that dietary supplement companies' facilities will be inspected as that they'll be hit by a North Korean missile.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

So sticking with larger, FDA monitored companies pretty much ensures quality control? I always thought anything FDA monitored should be treated with paranoid reserve, but it appears you're saying that the opposite applies to supplement companies.

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#33 madanthony

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 05:00 AM

Thanks for the edification and clarification. I could have sworn I'd read - somewhere - that iodine could/would lower TSH. If I find anything that supports that, I'll post it.

I took Iodoral (12.5mg iodine/iodide) / day for about 6 months. At first no symptoms so I did not know it was the Iodoral when symptoms did develop. My family is fish eaters and have never been known to have thyroid problems so I was unaware and was only taking it to ward off breast cancer. It started as tinnitus and proceeded to a severe buzzing, Sahara dry skin, palpitations, and unilateral brain swelling. (These are hyper AND hypo symptoms). And, fyi, the brain swelling is repeatable at very low doses of iodine via kelp (220mcg) for me now. I found out I had a thyroid problem and Life Extension Foundation told ne it was due to the Iodoral so to stop taking it. The barin buzzing and palpitations went away in 3 days, the dry skin took upwards of 3-6 months. I did not want to give up on iodine so tried lower doses. I caught my thyoid going hyper ia TSH (dfelt palpitations) but one day later mt TSH showed HYPO, as did T3. I had Sahara dry skin AND palpitations. The brain swelling commences immediately upon taking an iodine supplement. I now an trying a tiny dose of 220mcg (which causes brain swelling I am cancelling out with Ginkgold, a PAF inhibitor). Don't know why the thyroid shuts off with too much iodine, especially since HYPER symptoms do not cease.

Edited by Michael, 21 July 2011 - 01:24 PM.
trim quotes


#34 rwac

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 05:26 AM

I believe excess iodine is toxic to the thyroid. A relative deficiency of selenium might be one reason for iodine toxicity.
I had good results taking Methyl-Selenocysteine with the iodine, it's a necessary cofactor for the deiodinases that convert T4 to T3 to T2.
Never got hyper symptoms, although I went as high as 4x iodoral/day at one point.

Edited by rwac, 10 July 2011 - 05:27 AM.


#35 madanthony

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 12:56 AM

I believe excess iodine is toxic to the thyroid. A relative deficiency of selenium might be one reason for iodine toxicity.
I had good results taking Methyl-Selenocysteine with the iodine, it's a necessary cofactor for the deiodinases that convert T4 to T3 to T2.
Never got hyper symptoms, although I went as high as 4x iodoral/day at one point.

Yes, I read that too. I have always taken selenium in my multiple, but I am also taking an extra 100mg selenium and I still get immediate same day brain swelling when I take iodine even in a tiny 220mcg dose. John Johnson at ithyroid.com postulates it is due to copper deficiency - a bunch of hypers at his site all had their hair anaylzed for deficiencies and found they were all deficient in copper. But since that is a poison, I am cautious about taking it and not have enough. Or it's something else...

#36 rwac

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 01:53 AM

I believe excess iodine is toxic to the thyroid. A relative deficiency of selenium might be one reason for iodine toxicity.
I had good results taking Methyl-Selenocysteine with the iodine, it's a necessary cofactor for the deiodinases that convert T4 to T3 to T2.
Never got hyper symptoms, although I went as high as 4x iodoral/day at one point.

Yes, I read that too. I have always taken selenium in my multiple, but I am also taking an extra 100mg selenium and I still get immediate same day brain swelling when I take iodine even in a tiny 220mcg dose. John Johnson at ithyroid.com postulates it is due to copper deficiency - a bunch of hypers at his site all had their hair anaylzed for deficiencies and found they were all deficient in copper. But since that is a poison, I am cautious about taking it and not have enough. Or it's something else...


Nah, not a poison, it wont kill you. try taking say 2-3 mg of Cu and see if it helps.
Also, I got no benefit from any form other than the Methyl-Selenocysteine, so it might be worth a shot.

#37 TheFountain

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 02:37 AM

How do you reverse a slightly swollen thyroid gland?

#38 madanthony

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:56 PM

How do you reverse a slightly swollen thyroid gland?

How do you know it is swollen? Have you had all the thyroid tests: TSH, FREE T4, FREE T3, REVERSE T3, ATA (antithyroid antibody), TPO (thyroid peroxidase antibody)? Are they in the normal ranges according to Life Extension (lab ranges are wide as a barn door and encompass many unwell states). Here are the LEF ranges:

TSH LE’s Optimal Range: 0.35 to 2.1 mcIU/mL
FREE T4 Reference Range: 0.70–1.53 ng/dL
FREE T3 Reference Range: 2.3–4.2 pg/mL
Reverse T3 Reference Range: 90–350 pg/mL
ATA LE’s Optimal Range: <5 IU/mL

Life Extension reports these statistics culled from studies:
■TSH greater than 2.0: increased 20-year risk of hypothyroidism and increased risk of thyroid autoimmune disease
■TSH between 2.0 and 4.0: hypercholesterolemia and cholesterol levels decline in response to T4 therapy
■TSH greater than 4.0: greater risk of heart disease
(see http://www.lef.org/p...eference ranges)

Also interesting: Some people with celiac disease or sensitivity to gluten are at increased risk for developing autoimmune thyroid disease and should be evaluated.72

Elevated thyroid antibodies are often associated with chronic urticaria, also called hives. Studies report that as many as 57.4% of patients with hives have the presence of anti-thyroid antibodies.73,74

There are a number of studies (look yourself) indicating that these things 9other than iodine, selenium, nutrient deficiencies) are among those that cause cause increased thyroid volume: fluoride, cigarette smoking). First for Women magazine July 18, 2011 is now running ana rticle stating that these vegetables are treated with a being-phased-out-over-years pesticide (cryolite) that contains high levels of fluoride: tomato, potato, strawberries. Cryolite is also used in Californian grapes. The article advises buying organic or, in the case of wines, European varieties, as cryolite is rarely used in Europe.

So...it seems unusual to approach a thyroid question with a start being a swelling. It seems like you need to start with the blood tests because depending on which way you need to drive your thyroid the solution would be different. You can't go wrong by taking 200-200 mcg selenium, however.

For instance:
Gartner R, Gasnier BC, Dietrich JW, Krebs B, Angstwurm MW.
Selenium supplementation in patients with autoimmune thyroiditis decreases
thyroid peroxidase antibodies concentrations.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Apr;87(4):1687-91.
PMID: 11932302

Low selenium status in the elderly influences thyroid hormones
OLIVIERI O.; GIRELLI D.; AZZINI M.; STANZIAL A. M.; RUSSO C.; FERRONI M.; CORROCHER R.
A progressive reduction of the T3/T4 ratio (due to increased T4 levels) and of selenium in the elderly is reversed with selenium supplementation.
http://cat.inist.fr/...&cpsidt=2991072

http://www.springerl...58757835772742/
Selenium Deficiency as a Possible Contributor of Goiter in Schoolchildren of Isfahan, Iran
Ammar H. Keshteli, Mahin Hashemipour, Mansour Siavash and Masoud Amini
The prevalence of Se deficiency was significantly higher in goitrous boys and girls than nongoitrous children.
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#39 madanthony

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:10 PM

I believe excess iodine is toxic to the thyroid. A relative deficiency of selenium might be one reason for iodine toxicity.
I had good results taking Methyl-Selenocysteine with the iodine, it's a necessary cofactor for the deiodinases that convert T4 to T3 to T2.
Never got hyper symptoms, although I went as high as 4x iodoral/day at one point.

Yes, I read that too. I have always taken selenium in my multiple, but I am also taking an extra 100mg selenium and I still get immediate same day brain swelling when I take iodine even in a tiny 220mcg dose. John Johnson at ithyroid.com postulates it is due to copper deficiency - a bunch of hypers at his site all had their hair anaylzed for deficiencies and found they were all deficient in copper. But since that is a poison, I am cautious about taking it and not have enough. Or it's something else...


Nah, not a poison, it wont kill you. try taking say 2-3 mg of Cu and see if it helps.
Also, I got no benefit from any form other than the Methyl-Selenocysteine, so it might be worth a shot.

Thanks, I'll try it. However one should be able to methylate the selenium oneself and to my mind requiring a pre-methylated form means methylation issues. I have a perfect homocysteine lab value due to taking active methylation factors :methyllcobalamine, methylfolate, P5P, Thorne Basic B, and TMG, and NO folic acid (which prevents methylfolate from being used). My uMMA is also in range. However I have many genetic defects and wish there was a direct way to measure SAMe to be sure since, for instance, the brain does not contain the p5p route for getting rid of homocysteine and may not contain the TMG route either (can't remember regarding TMG) - so your total body homocysteine may be fine but what if a critical part of your body is not fine due to mB12/mfolate insufficiency?). For instance also, I am seeing some B complexes (such as AOR) using ONLY benfotiamine, which is good for your kidneys (protects against glycation) and is less easily washed out being oil soluble however MY investigation showed the brain requires thiamine and can't use benfotiamine. Sometimes the brain's requirements are different...

#40 TheFountain

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 06:10 AM

To be honest I am not sure how I know it is swollen. It is really a very subjective assessment. And it seems more or less swollen depending on several factors. One of which is the quality of the iodine product. When taking kelp iodine it seems more swollen, when taking potassium iodine it seems less swollen. Also when increasing dietary iodine sources (seaweed, eggs, etc) and still taking one drop of potassium iodine, it seems less swollen. I know I have to get around to getting tests, I am just lazy when it comes to doctors. They seem more like business men than people who care about my health or longevity. Do you guys really like doctors that much?

#41 rwac

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 06:29 AM

You don't need a doctor to get tests. You can order them yourself at a discounted rate, even.

#42 TheFountain

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 02:41 AM

You don't need a doctor to get tests. You can order them yourself at a discounted rate, even.


How much does it cost to get your thyroid evaluated?

#43 rwac

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:20 AM

How much does it cost to get your thyroid evaluated?


You can get it from LEF or from prepaidlab.
http://www.lef.org/V...y=tsh%20t3%20t4

http://www.prepaidla...oid t3 t4&pop=0
Prepaidlab would have been a lot cheaper a month ago ...

See: http://www.ohio.com/...helved-1.198052

Edited by rwac, 21 July 2011 - 03:33 AM.


#44 Michael

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 01:48 PM

 

I believe excess iodine is toxic to the thyroid. A relative deficiency of selenium might be one reason for iodine toxicity.
I had good results taking Methyl-Selenocysteine with the iodine, it's a necessary cofactor for the deiodinases that convert T4 to T3 to T2.
Never got hyper symptoms, although I went as high as 4x iodoral/day at one point.

Yes, I read that too. I have always taken selenium in my multiple, but I am also taking an extra 100mg selenium and I still get immediate same day brain swelling

 

No one should be taking more than the RDA (55 µg) of Se/d: there is now plenty of evidence -- notably, from two large clinical trials (the Nutritional Prevention of Cancer Study and the even larger SELECT study), along with epidemiology, that the "standard" (220 µg) doses of selenium supplements increase the risk of diabetes and impaired glucose tolerance.

Studies done in European populations (such as this study in French men) sometimes seem to find different results; this is because the intake of Se is lower in Europe due to more Se-depleted soil, so that "high" selenium intake or plasma enzyme levels in Europe are similar to average Se levels in North America. Even there, however, some studies do find a negative association, such as in the baseline selenium levels in the French SU.VI.MAX trial.


Edited by Michael, 28 August 2018 - 03:21 AM.
fix dead link


#45 TheFountain

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:16 PM

^^^^ In the U.S a lot of eastern states have soil conditions that make selenium content of various foods either very limited, or quite variable. This is why some people supplement with it. I choose to eat one or two brazil nuts a day. But even these are said to have seriously variable amounts of selenium. From what I know, anywhere from 50-100 mcgs per nut, the average being about 70 mcgs.

Edited by TheFountain, 21 July 2011 - 03:18 PM.


#46 Michael

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:42 PM

n the U.S a lot of eastern states have soil conditions that make selenium content of various foods either very limited, or quite variable.

None the less, as I indicated in one of the links I provided:

Nutritional Prevention of Cancer Study, the big RCT of selenium vs skin cancer ... was intentionally chosen from an area with unusually low-selenium soils (the Eastern USA), thus making the cohort result dubiously-extrapolable to the population at large (there would be many more frankly deficient people in this group than most places in the industrialized world) -- and even here, according to this new report on diabetes risk (7), "the average dietary selenium intake is 90 mcg/d; this value is low for the United States but is much greater than that required to optimize selenoenzyme activities" -- which is the cutoff on whose basis they set the RDA (of "only" 55 mcg).


I choose to eat one or two brazil nuts a day. But even these are said to have seriously variable amounts of selenium. From what I know, anywhere from 50-100 mcgs per nut, the average being about 70 mcgs.


Brazil nut Se is extremely variable, and can easily be toxic:

Analysis was performed on 72 individual nuts obtained in stores as shelled nuts in bulk and shelled and unshelled nuts in packages. Their average selenium content was 14.66 ppm with a range of 0.2 to 253.0."(1)

This range is WAY too wide to be considered a safe source of Se -- especially granted that all of the nuts in a bag or bin are likely to come from the same crop: if you're unlucky enough to buy a high-Se bag of nuts, you could be taking toxic doses every day for months or a year, since you only eat 1-2/d.

References
1. Variation In The Selenium Content Of Individual Brazil Nuts
Carol L. Secor, Donald J. Lisk
Journal of Food Safety Volume 9, Issue 4, pages 279–281, January 1989
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#47 TheFountain

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 04:21 PM

n the U.S a lot of eastern states have soil conditions that make selenium content of various foods either very limited, or quite variable.

None the less, as I indicated in one of the links I provided:

Nutritional Prevention of Cancer Study, the big RCT of selenium vs skin cancer ... was intentionally chosen from an area with unusually low-selenium soils (the Eastern USA), thus making the cohort result dubiously-extrapolable to the population at large (there would be many more frankly deficient people in this group than most places in the industrialized world) -- and even here, according to this new report on diabetes risk (7), "the average dietary selenium intake is 90 mcg/d; this value is low for the United States but is much greater than that required to optimize selenoenzyme activities" -- which is the cutoff on whose basis they set the RDA (of "only" 55 mcg).


I choose to eat one or two brazil nuts a day. But even these are said to have seriously variable amounts of selenium. From what I know, anywhere from 50-100 mcgs per nut, the average being about 70 mcgs.


Brazil nut Se is extremely variable, and can easily be toxic:

Analysis was performed on 72 individual nuts obtained in stores as shelled nuts in bulk and shelled and unshelled nuts in packages. Their average selenium content was 14.66 ppm with a range of 0.2 to 253.0."(1)

This range is WAY too wide to be considered a safe source of Se -- especially granted that all of the nuts in a bag or bin are likely to come from the same crop: if you're unlucky enough to buy a high-Se bag of nuts, you could be taking toxic doses every day for months or a year, since you only eat 1-2/d.

References
1. Variation In The Selenium Content Of Individual Brazil Nuts
Carol L. Secor, Donald J. Lisk
Journal of Food Safety Volume 9, Issue 4, pages 279–281, January 1989


Very good post, even if it is a little on the alarmist side of things.

What I am getting from the relevant research is that there is a cross section of the populace (not a definable number as far as I know) which suffers from selenium deficiency. The reason being soil conditions/variability of minerals and nutrients, even in animal foods. So basically it is possible to get 2.5 millograms of selenium a day from a mere two brazil nuts? That's absolutely astonishing. The reason I opted for brazil nuts, as opposed to a supplement (selenomethionine) is a study I read, out of new zealand, which basically stated that the control subjects had better bio-availability of selenium from brazil nuts than they did from the forementioned supplement (raised blood levels of glutathione peroxidase by 8.3 from brazil nuts as opposed to 3.4% from the supplement). Now I see why! I new there was variability but what you're talking about is insane. I think I may now opt for a supplemental version at 200 mcgs now. Any thoughts on selenium supplements?

Edited by TheFountain, 21 July 2011 - 04:24 PM.


#48 APBT

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 11:21 PM

Selenium toxicity but not deficient or super-nutritional selenium status vastly alters the transcriptome in rodents.

http://www.biomedcen...1471-2164/12/26

#49 APBT

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 11:26 PM

Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus

Only a few studies have examined whether selenium status influences risk for type 2 <a href="http://lpi.oregonsta...html#diabetes">diabetes mellitus and results are conflicting. One study found that lower toenail selenium levels in men with type 2 diabetes than in non-diabetic men (48); in contrast, another study reported higher serum selenium levels in type 2 diabetics (49). A recent randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study in 1,202 men and women participating in the Nutritional Prevention of Cancer trial found that selenium supplementation (200 mcg/day; mean follow-up of 7.7 years) was linked to an increase in prevalence of type 2 diabetes (50). In the Selenium and Vitamin E Cancer Prevention Trial (SELECT), selenium supplementation (200 mcg/day; median follow-up of 5.5 years) was associated with a statistically nonsignificant increased risk of type 2 diabetes (67).

http://lpi.oregonsta...erals/selenium/


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#50 TheFountain

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 12:26 AM

^^^^^^^^ Very strange indeed.




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