79 replies to this topic

[Centurion]

Thanks Chris. Its a shame the programs gradually reduce from beta, making them pretty useless for looping. Could of course have one reducing from beta and one constant theta and then employ a playlist...

[Athanasios]

If you are not using the trial, you can make your own or download some off the site. I made one based off of fairly recent research on heavy meditation. Good stuff.

[Centurion]

I might register it when my next student loan comes in. The research does seem to heavily support it. Otherwise I wouldnt be remotely interested.

[cmorera]

Thanks Chris. Its a shame the programs gradually reduce from beta, making them pretty useless for looping. Could of course have one reducing from beta and one constant theta and then employ a playlist...

sure thing

HOlosync consists of 2 tracks ... dive and immersion ... dive goes from beta to delta, immersion loops delta ... so if you wanna loop holosync just loop the second track.

im ont sure about others .... i also have some Thompson CD's, which don't use binaurals, but use high tech sound technology to create weird mind effects ... his stuff is really cool =]

[porthose]

i have been using Transparent Corps Neuroprogramer Version 2 and previous to that version 1 for nearly 2 years. IMO, the product is superior to anything out there including holosync stuff at a fraction of the cost. With the Pro version of NP2, you can make any session you want.

i have also been using an audio strobe decoder for several months. in terms of beta, alpha, theta plus deep delta entrainment, the technology is amazing. ive had phenomenal success in the sporting arena with visualisation etc.

[garethnelsonuk]

Get audacity or any other decent audio editor
Synthesise a sine wave in the left channel of 440hz
Synthesis a sine wave in the right channel of 440+Xhz where X is whatever frequency you want to get to
Listen to it for at least 20 minutes with headphones
Focus on it
Enjoy

Sometimes mixing some music or pink noise can help if you find pure sine waves unpleasant. I've experimented with modulating the music itself and get some interesting effects, but only anecdotal evidence. If anyone would like an example try this:
http://shell.garethn...nauralbeats.ogg
Others who have listened to this claim it makes them feel a little bit sick, I find it greatly aids focus, but this may be due to the normal effect that music has upon me. I get a lesser effect with pure sine waves for focus, but have found that binaural beats at 440hz in the left channel and 444hz in the right channel can put me to sleep in minutes.

I avoid commercial binaural/relaxation/meditation/hypnosis tapes/CDs for several reasons. The most important one is that I don't know how effective they are or even if some kind of subliminal crap is in there.

[Centurion]

Get audacity or any other decent audio editor
Synthesise a sine wave in the left channel of 440hz
Synthesis a sine wave in the right channel of 440+Xhz where X is whatever frequency you want to get to
Listen to it for at least 20 minutes with headphones
Focus on it
Enjoy

Sometimes mixing some music or pink noise can help if you find pure sine waves unpleasant. I've experimented with modulating the music itself and get some interesting effects, but only anecdotal evidence. If anyone would like an example try this:
http://shell.garethn...nauralbeats.ogg
Others who have listened to this claim it makes them feel a little bit sick, I find it greatly aids focus, but this may be due to the normal effect that music has upon me. I get a lesser effect with pure sine waves for focus, but have found that binaural beats at 440hz in the left channel and 444hz in the right channel can put me to sleep in minutes.

I avoid commercial binaural/relaxation/meditation/hypnosis tapes/CDs for several reasons. The most important one is that I don't know how effective they are or even if some kind of subliminal crap is in there.

Man you are right! its so easy to do in audacity!
Took me about 20 seconds

[garethnelsonuk]

I've been using binaural beats for years, generating them with audacity, sox, sbagen or any other software.

[rhakshasa]

I have downloaded audacity but honestly I would not be able to do what you said garethnelsonuk. If you could explain more for the newbie

[garethnelsonuk]

Click project
Create new audio track
On the new track, click the little down arrow and then left
Click inside the track
Click generate
Click tone
Repeat for right channel with a different frequency

If you need screenshots let me know, though everyone here should be taking their piracetam and reading the manual.

[rhakshasa]

Ok it's perfect for me. Thanks. What frequency do you recommand?

[garethnelsonuk]

It depends entirely upon your aims and your neurological wiring. I tend to generate new tones depending on my mood but try to keep it >10hz throughout the day and in the mornings then drop to 4hz at night before bed.

[REGIMEN]

I wrote this for a thread around here a bit ago with intentions of editing and in the interim have found a more appropriate thread for such a topic. Should be helpful to anyone interested even without the polish of editing (Info must be free! My ego can take a hit for "The Team".).


There are a number of keys to making audio entrainment tracks that if not followed will have you hopping on the naysayer bandwagon. I used Neural Noise Synthesizer available for a 30 day free trial from download*com from which I created wav files by using some "sound capture" freeware...getting the hint? (Free!) Or you can be so lucky to get a ripped version of Brainwave Generator (bwg) that actually works off of soulseek but the odds of that are low. Anyways, here are the guidelines (most generally for a Sleep-type program):

1) Use Binaural (with Amplitude at 100%)
2) Use Audible sine waves (with Volume at less than 10% & decrease this the lower the frequency; under ~10Hz I would begin tapering down the sine wave volume. The program should be very, very quiet by the end of a sleep-type program as you'll be very, very close to sleep if not yet so.)
3) Turn off any "white noise" feature (A way to temper your focus while using a program is to turn on a loud fan/filter or pleasant white noise creating appliance and balance the program's volume with that unincorporated “hum” source. You actually get a strobe like audio effect when using most programs which is far cleaner and calming than if a white noise track were put into the actual audio program.)
3) Start the program out somewhere under 40hz, even so low as 12Hz, and slowly ramp down to lower frequencies. There's one particular compilation of frequency effects online if you search something like "binaural frequency". This is actually a pretty good guide for the descend-plateau-descend-plateau-etc format you should take in the composition of the program. The lower the frequency, the longer you should take to get down to it with longer and longer plateaus leading to it.
4) The program can be effective down to 30 minutes in length but I would recommend 45 to 60 minutes for program length as a general calming meditation.
5) Close your eyes from the outset. Consider starting your program so that it runs about 10-40 minutes into when you would guesstimate, or hope, to be asleep.
6) Lay flat on your back with no pillow under your head. You can snuggle into a pillow later, this is business! Relaaaaxing businesssss.......
7) Try loosening up with some stretches or yoga before you get situated in bed/on the floor. This isn't fully necessary but is helpful as are breathing exercises during the use of the program. Shoulderstand pose for 3-5 minutes with a slow, spine-rolling contraction at the end always relaxes me and gives me this feeling of my torso and legs sinking into the ground with my arms cushioned above them. wooooooo.....
8) When you get on your back with your eyes closed and ***headphones*** on take note of the volume of the audio program. A descending volume should be built into the track already but you still don't need too high a playback volume. As you reach lower frequencies in your program you may wake up prematurely and all pissy and toss off your headphones because the volume is too annoyingly loud for the level of pre-sleep calm your program guided you into. You'll know within a minute or so from starting what volume will be comfortable for the long run.
9) Take some theanine or ashwagandha an hour or so before you start. Why not help it along with the power of drugs?
10) I hate uttering the word on here, but in the frequency compilation I mentioned there are some frequencies associated with chakras. They seem to be a good path of descent (12-10-8-etc). A sensation to consider is that of your focus going from behind your closed eyelids downward as if it (your Focus) were a kite being walked from one end of your spine to the other. Getting down to around 2Hz and below should optimally take about 60 minutes. You most likely will feel so relaxed or just plainly asleep that you may not remember experiencing anything past 20 minutes into the program. Near the end or after it's over you should be barely awake yet enough so to remove your headphones safely. Go ahead and sleep any which way you like after that.
11) Different sequences and cutoff points in the program can have varying results in the quality of your sleep. Active dreams, lucid dreams, deep dreamless sleep...all are possible which leads back the frequency compilation and your willingness to experiment.
12) When the mind is entrained to the much lower frequencies (<6Hz) I've noticed a sensation that deeper voices or instruments seem to become the new midrange as if my whole perception of tone were shifted downward. Deep, slowed, distended voices are perceived as if of "regular" rate and tone when under the effects of a program going to such a range. If anyone wants to create some overdubs they would want to do it with this kind of effect in mind.
13) Along the line of the previous point referencing chakras: for entrainment frequencies below that of 12Hz you can descend along the spine but as the frequency rises I've experienced also the feeling of some ephemeral light feeling of presence that corresponds along an arc that could be said to follow where...say... a mohawk would reside upon one's head; that or something similar to a Tibetan monk's head dress.

Now, if any smartypants bops in and says it's all placebo effect then they either haven't tried it or they used an inferior quality composition with fruity, distractingly loud new-age music or some aggravatingly inexperienced voice "talking you through it". Any study would be flawed in my opinion due to presumably having employed such "aesthetic-soiled" entrainment composition as the "test drug" (No Arts & Crafts in the brain! Only Minimalism! Actually, if you need music over your entrainment program consider some Terry Riley, maybe "Descending Moonshine Dervishes"..that's amenable to sleep states...keep the volume rather low as if it were the faint hum of traffic outside your home). By following these guidelines you should get at very least some type of sleep of a nature notably different than what you are used to on a regular basis.

Musings:

One quick question: say an oscilloscope is producing a sine wave and the frequency is raised to a level that a slower phasing effect is visually noticed...um, wait, I may have answered myself, but is this called phasing? Well, not really a question, but mentioned here to make a point. This point being that this effect can be used to impart further specific frequencies by pairing both the desired binaural frequency with the base frequency/ies by which they are derived. Say, using 40Hz in the right ear and 33Hz in the left ear you would get a binaural frequency of 7hz along with the imposed frequencies from the number of periods of 7hz residing in both 33 and 40Hz (40/7 = 5.71Hz, and 33/7 = 4.71Hz). I believe it could be further assumed that the difference of 1Hz between these two secondary derivative frequencies would also impart a tertiary effect. I wouldn't doubt that these other frequencies are what the meditating and focused minds are seeking.

Another effect I've noticed is one of subtle harmonics arising like ghost notes that are as dynamic as the "speed" of the frequency. One particular program I made using my method (binaural = 0.9Hz ; general base freq. = 250Hz.....or was it bin.=1.05 ; gbF=172.06 ??? ..Whichever it is seems to allow for a few layers of notes more...I'll explain in a second.) seems to do this. It's as if you're playing one note on a vibraphone with other notes in a scale becoming available for your mind to play in what is most usually an ascending order. It's almost like a very simple game in that you let whatever elements of your senses/brain that notice such phenomena to first devise the available scale of the notes on this "instrument" from which then simple, playful melodies can be performed by your intentions.

I've noticed that different programs, regardless of how similar you may think or first experience some "simple sinewave" program to sound, do all begin to sound very different in that a certain anthropomorphic character begins to arise. Consider a mannequin appearing with volumes and limbs of varying length and size also paired with it's own distinct repertoire of movement. This mannequin, in this case, is a black phantasm in the the pitch dark room of your shuttered vision so these character traits lightly fill your senses to which you add the imagined mask of your own sensed face to the mannequin. In short, music has character which is also applicable to what I would consider the more pragmatic, objective compositions of binaural programs. It may just be this aptitude for actively and creatively experiencing these types of programs that separate the doubters and ...the users(?... ).

Here's that Brainwave Frequency Listing/compilation I mentioned above:
http://www.lunarsight.com/freq.htm

[garethnelsonuk]

The stuff you mention about chakras and other new-age crap can ironically be used in a rational way if they help get you into a different mindset. A mix of placebo and real entrainment can be very effective for those who don't already have the developed focus skills.

I should also add that binaural beats are useful for much much more than just sleep. I use them on a daily basis now and listen to them in the background if I can't actually sit down and meditate.

I have noticed that above 40hz or so what I would guess is just some kind of neural noise from somewhere in my brain pops up and I hear random music or odd memories pop up. This is not something I was aiming for so I cannot put it down to placebo.

[REGIMEN]

Chakras, as I understand it, are just regions of higher neural and circulatory system presence....bundles of nerves and capillaries in set areas which may make them just plainly a proposition and an effect of structure. Seems to be a kind of shorthand for "that group of functions" and "those ones too". Funny how old the new-age really is, too.

[jdog]

Chakras, as I understand it, are just regions of higher neural and circulatory system presence....bundles of nerves and capillaries in set areas which may make them just plainly a proposition and an effect of structure.  Seems to be a kind of shorthand for "that group of functions" and "those ones too".  Funny how old the new-age really is, too.

If anyone is interested in getting their chakras activated through the use of sound waves check this out.

http://www.soundoasi...ound/Chakra.asp

Oh wait...seems you're required to get your Inner Tone Sessions 1, 2, and 3, at $150, $125, and $100 respectively, as well as a some other spirtual balancing session BEFORE you can activate your chakras. And if you're REALLY REALLY happy with the results or just plain stupid, you can get your Merkaba activated - the price for that though isn't listed and you need to call for a "consult." Wow...amazing how people can put so much money into this crap...but then again, if it works on a subjective level through the placebo effect then I guess they don't really lose out except for just being gullible.

[jdog]

My perspective on this stuff is very limited, and I won't dispute that sound waves can affect our physiology, but this stuff just reeks of b.s.

[Brainbox]

The fact that certain individuals are abusing a technology by adding all kind of unproven features doesn't mean that the base technology itself is bogus

[jdog]

Agreed. See above.

[stephenszpak]

Hi

I was interested in this a while back myself. (Started a thread 12 months ago.)

I didn't get any help from all this but it *seems* some people are helped.
(If this is true one wonders if all human brains are pretty much the same. (?))))

I came across this. (hope it wasn't already covered here)::

========================================================

Ecological validity of neurofeedback: modulation of slow wave EEG enhances musical performance.

COGNITIVE NEUROSCIENCE AND NEUROPSYCHOLOGY

Neuroreport. 14(9):1221-1224, July 1, 2003.
Egner, Tobias; Gruzelier, John H
Abstract:

Biofeedback-assisted modulation of electrocortical activity has been established to have intrinsic clinical benefits and has been shown to improve cognitive performance in healthy humans. In order to further investigate the pedagogic relevance of electroencephalograph (EEG) biofeedback (neurofeedback) for enhancing normal function, a series of investigations assessed the training's impact on an ecologically valid real-life behavioural performance measure: music performance under stressful conditions in conservatoire students. In a pilot study, single-blind expert ratings documented improvements in musical performance in a student group that received training on attention and relaxation related neurofeedback protocols, and improvements were highly correlated with learning to progressively raise theta (5-8 Hz) over alpha (8-11 Hz) band amplitudes. These findings were replicated in a second experiment where an alpha/theta training group displayed significant performance enhancement not found with other neurofeedback training protocols or in alternative interventions, including the widely applied Alexander technique.

© 2003 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.


===========================================================




I think he did other studies. That is, Gruzelier.

http://www1.imperial...le/j.gruzelier/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also came across this (in a military context):


According to literature by Silent Sounds, Inc., it is now possible, using supercomputers, to analyse human emotional EEG patterns and replicate them, then store these "emotion signature clusters" on another computer and, at will, "silently induce and change the emotional state in a human being".

http://www.geocities...project162.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Stephen

[stephenszpak]

I wonder if its possible to use this to enhance exam revision for material which needs to be learned verbatim (ie getting a base of knowledge). Could a wav file of repeated vocalisation of the material be worked into one of the theta wave programs? Or would all this be a monumental waste of time.

Probably not. (But it would make life easier.) -Stephen

Excerpt:

"These early experimenters," the D.H.C. was saying, "were on the wrong track. They thought that hypnopædia could be made an instrument of intellectual education …"

(A small boy asleep on his right side, the right arm stuck out, the right hand hanging limp over the edge of the bed. Through a round grating in the side of a box a voice speaks softly.

"The Nile is the longest river in Africa and the second in length of all the rivers of the globe. Although falling short of the length of the Mississippi-Missouri, the Nile is at the head of all rivers as regards the length of its basin, which extends through 35 degrees of latitude …"

At breakfast the next morning, "Tommy," some one says, "do you know which is the longest river in Africa?" A shaking of the head. "But don't you remember something that begins: The Nile is the …"

"The - Nile - is - the - longest - river - in - Africa - and - the - second - in - length - of - all - the - rivers - of - the - globe …" The words come rushing out. "Although - falling - short - of …"

"Well now, which is the longest river in Africa?"

The eyes are blank. "I don't know."

"But the Nile, Tommy."

"The - Nile - is - the - longest - river - in - Africa - and - second …"

"Then which river is the longest, Tommy?"

Tommy burst into tears. "I don't know," he howls.)

That howl, the Director made it plain, discouraged the earliest invesfigators. The experiments were abandoned. No further attempt was made to teach children the length of the Nile in their sleep. Quite rightly. You can't learn a science unless you know what it's all about.





http://www.readprint...4/Aldous-Huxley

[stephenszpak]

We know that sound has strong effects on mind and body. This has been researched and there is little doubt about it. You dont have to be a music lover to know that.  I see no reason why this shouldn't work. When you add in strobe light effects, that is likely to have an effect also. I've noticed a giddy feeling before from a strobe light at certain frequencies with eyes closed. Whether this will do wonderful things for us or not, I'm not sure. It sounds like it could be very soothing and relaxing. That is certainly worth something.

I may get one of them myself and headphones too. If it doesn't work, I'll try a different tune (different program). Not everyone is going to like the same group of sounds and lights anymore than everyone likes rap. I may have to try a few before I find one I like. Is there good freeware or do you get what you pay for? Is Radioshack a good source for headphones or is Ebay better?

I better understanding of these 2 would be helpful. These two links provide only a baby step in that direction. -Stephen

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Bucha_effect

http://en.wikipedia....sitive_epilepsy

[cmorera]

the offer is still up if a few peeps wanna go in on NP2. it costs like $60 ... so with a few of us it should be relatively inexpensive to try it out ... and if you like it you can donate them money for your conscience or something,

[cmorera]

the offer is still up if a few peeps wanna go in on NP2. it costs like $60 ... so with a few of us it should be relatively inexpensive to try it out ... and if you like it you can donate them money for your conscience or something,

[garethnelsonuk]

Chakras, as I understand it, are just regions of higher neural and circulatory system presence....bundles of nerves and capillaries in set areas which may make them just plainly a proposition and an effect of structure.  Seems to be a kind of shorthand for "that group of functions" and "those ones too".  Funny how old the new-age really is, too.

If anyone is interested in getting their chakras activated through the use of sound waves check this out.

http://www.soundoasi...ound/Chakra.asp

Oh wait...seems you're required to get your Inner Tone Sessions 1, 2, and 3, at $150, $125, and $100 respectively, as well as a some other spirtual balancing session BEFORE you can activate your chakras. And if you're REALLY REALLY happy with the results or just plain stupid, you can get your Merkaba activated - the price for that though isn't listed and you need to call for a "consult." Wow...amazing how people can put so much money into this crap...but then again, if it works on a subjective level through the placebo effect then I guess they don't really lose out except for just being gullible.

Massive difference between this new-age "pay us for enlightenment" crap and a guy sitting by his computer using audacity. I have always synthesised my own binaural beats from scratch (even using them in some musical compositions as an integral part - i'll have to dig up those recordings if anyone is interested). As a basic concentration aid binaural beats do work. As to any other claims people make for them - be skeptical. They can cause shifts in basic mental state but that's all.

[Johan]

I am using BWGen.

What amount of time would you recommend listening to the respective sounds in order to get the desired effects? 5 minutes? 10? 20?

Also, is there any place where you can download samples of these sounds in MP3/WAW format? I'm interested in having these sounds stored on my MP3 player so I can carry them with me wherever I go. I am thinking of using this in school to enhance my perception and learning. Not that I have problems with these things, but a little extra is always good, I figure.

Finally, are there any in-ear headphones you know of which support the required sound frequencies? They're a lot more portable than closed-ear headphones.
The best I could find was Creative's models EP630 and EP635, which both support a frequency range of 6 Hz - 23 KHz. Is that enough, or do I need an even better frequency range?

Edited by namingway, 07 January 2007 - 03:11 PM.

[Centurion]

You dont need to worry about the frequency range. Just make sure you use frequencies within your earphones range that are X number of hz apart. Ie you dont need to use 6hz just use 12 and 18.

[Johan]

Ok, thanks. I ordered a pair of Creative EP635 today anyway (they make music sound great too ), so then it shouldn't be a problem.

[garethnelsonuk]

BWGen can export in WAV format apparently, export and then encode into MP3 - or make your own.
The frequency range should be fine - if you can hear it.

[Johan]

It apparently seems to be working well for me. When I tried listening to the "Learning (subliminal)" freq, I found that I remembered that particular sound far more easily than any of the others. Or maybe it's just me.

Edited by namingway, 07 January 2007 - 04:45 PM.