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Brain blood flow versus vasodilation, piracetam versus ginkgo


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#1 caruga

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 06:54 PM


I've been noticing of late that medium to high doses of piracetam cause very obvious increased blood flow to my brain. My head feels warmer and sometimes the pulse is so fierce I can feel my teeth vibrate slightly if my jaw is in resting position.

I've not felt anything similar off of high doses of ginkgo or vinpocetine, though I do feel effects. It seems when increasing blood _flow_, piracetam is boss.

What's the difference between a vasodilator and something that merely increases blood flow? Is piracetam a vasodilator, or does it just increase blood pressure or heart rate or achieve it through another mechanism? Would adding ginkgo whilst experiencing this blatant blood-flow increase off of piracetam help relieve stress on my blood vessels or increase it? I don't know if more blood is trying to force it's way through (increased pressure), hence dilation of the vessels would relieve any vascular strain, or if the increase of blood flow from piracetam a direct result of the vessels dilating, and adding more vasodilators would increase the dilation to dangerous levels?
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#2 caruga

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 05:43 PM

Would adding ginkgo whilst experiencing this blatant blood-flow increase off of piracetam help relieve stress on my blood vessels or increase it?


Aaaaanyone?

Edited by caruga, 24 May 2011 - 05:43 PM.


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#3 bdoris

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 06:24 PM

I've been noticing of late that medium to high doses of piracetam cause very obvious increased blood flow to my brain. My head feels warmer and sometimes the pulse is so fierce I can feel my teeth vibrate slightly if my jaw is in resting position.

I've not felt anything similar off of high doses of ginkgo or vinpocetine, though I do feel effects. It seems when increasing blood _flow_, piracetam is boss.

What's the difference between a vasodilator and something that merely increases blood flow? Is piracetam a vasodilator, or does it just increase blood pressure or heart rate or achieve it through another mechanism? Would adding ginkgo whilst experiencing this blatant blood-flow increase off of piracetam help relieve stress on my blood vessels or increase it? I don't know if more blood is trying to force it's way through (increased pressure), hence dilation of the vessels would relieve any vascular strain, or if the increase of blood flow from piracetam a direct result of the vessels dilating, and adding more vasodilators would increase the dilation to dangerous levels?


By any chances, are you experiencing any rash on your body - itching or perhaps flushing?

Piracetam increasing the blood flow is a myth. Well, technically, I guess it does in a way, but very indirectly. The increased blood flow is just the result of increased brain activity. Piracetam makes your brain work harder. Your brain working harder demands more oxygen. Your body brings more oxygen. That's it.

Vasodilator drugs relax the muscle cells which are around arteries (yeah, we have muscles around arteries, but not veins), and the drugs widen those arteries. As a result, blood pressure may drop a little and oxygen can travel more easily - but then again, it is not necessarily always a good thing since it will promote nausea, dizziness and plenty of other side effects. Too much vasodilators will impair our body's ability to constrict arteries in places that do not need buckets of blood - that's why the negative effects are often migraines, nausea, dizziness - too much blood in certain sensible areas. Vasoconstriction - the opposite of vasodilation - is a part of our body's function to regulate blood flow to different part of our body or brain and is essential. It is an important function, just as much as its counterpart.

Vasodilators should IMO be taken only if you have a disorder which makes your blood flow inefficient - for example cholesterol levels will change the smoothness of cell's membrane and too much of it and red blood cells will have trouble going through small capillaries - that's why vasodilators can be useful.

#4 caruga

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 08:12 PM

Piracetam increasing the blood flow is a myth. Well, technically, I guess it does in a way, but very indirectly. The increased blood flow is just the result of increased brain activity. Piracetam makes your brain work harder. Your brain working harder demands more oxygen. Your body brings more oxygen. That's it.


That's one theory, unless you know something that I do not...
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#5 Duster

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 02:26 AM

Piracetam increasing the blood flow is a myth. Well, technically, I guess it does in a way, but very indirectly. The increased blood flow is just the result of increased brain activity. Piracetam makes your brain work harder. Your brain working harder demands more oxygen. Your body brings more oxygen. That's it.


That's one theory, unless you know something that I do not...


I was also under the impression that this is how Piracetam works. It enhances the activity of ACh-releasing neurons; more activity requires more energy expenditure, resulting in more heat as a biproduct. I can't comment on how much this would increase blood flow (logically, it would as a result of more energy requirements, however, this assumes that oxygen is the limiting factor), but energy expenditure usually results in heat as a biproduct (this is why you shiver when you're cold).

#6 caruga

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 10:17 AM

I am convinced it increases blood-flow to the brain, but not sure how the person knows the order of causation or the cause.

The last few days the flood flow to my brain has increased naturally; my head feels heavier and warmer, just due to cognitive changes and the assistance of detoxification (disbelieve as you please). I have started responding to supplements much more rapidly and intensely. I can feel the anti-anxiety effect of taurine much more dramatically (actually couldn't feel it at all before). Interestingly, I used to be able to take piracetam at more or less any dose, but after a few weeks of not taking it I took just a gram yesterday and my head felt extremely heavy and warm--kind of like what I'd already attained as a natural change, once more--almost to the point of being sore, so much that I was kind of worried. I took some nicotine and felt kind of normal again.

#7 EMP

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 11:18 AM

As far as I know Ginkgo is very much hyped, which is why I haven't tried it myself. The studies I've read indicate no clear evidence of its effectiveness though... Then again, phosphatidylserine derived from soy is also said not to be effective, while I found it quite powerful myself (lecithin on the other hand sucked).

#8 NewRace

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:14 PM

I'm not sure if this topic is still alive. But yeah I can testify also that it increases heart rate if taken in close hour proximity between sub-doses.

e.g. 3x1.2g Piracetam in between 2-4 hours.

It did it again today, rapid heart beat and such. At 2x1.2g Piracetam there's no "blood rush".

Also it's not an allergy reaction because no rashes. itching or any allergic effect has been happening in the 2 weeks or so I've been taking it.

I observed that 3.2g and above for me gives that effect. It might be caused by other variables so I'm observing my diet and supplements as well. But it has become coincidental these past days where I've taken 3.2g and I can observe my hear racing 1-2 hours after taking the 3rd sub-dose.

#9 Orajel

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 03:43 AM

Things that increase blood flow are not always vasodilators. My absolute favorite blood flow enhancer is water. Not very spectacular, but it is the MOST EFFECTIVE way to increase blood flow. Omega 3's can also increase blood flow without vasodilation. I get the same effect from piracetam, warm head feeling :)

also, anything that increases heart rate increases blood flow and vice versa.

#10 NewRace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:08 AM

Yeah.

I can feel warmth around the side and frontal area of my head.

Oh I see. I wasn't aware that water is a blood flow enhancer. Maybe that's also an indirect contributor, cuz I get dehydrated with Piracetam so I have been consuming more water recently.

#11 Orajel

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:09 AM

Yeah.

I can feel warmth around the side and frontal area of my head.

Oh I see. I wasn't aware that water is a blood flow enhancer. Maybe that's also an indirect contributor, cuz I get dehydrated with Piracetam so I have been consuming more water recently.


Absolutely, if you want to increase blood flow, first step is drinking more water. Proper hydration reduces the viscosity of your blood, which allows it to move more easily. I'm sure you've noticed you get cold more easily when not drinking water, or if you're not hydrated your hands and feet get cold more easily. Omega 3's can increase blood flow by reducing blood viscosity as well.

#12 Gecko

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:09 AM

Piracetam reduces erythrocyte (red blood cell) adhesion to the cell wall as well as increasing their deformability which is one suggested reason for the increased microcirculation and cerebral blood flow. Hence it being trialled in sickle-cell anaemia.

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#13 ken_shiro

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 03:09 PM

Bacopa monnieri increases cerebral blood flow

https://en.wikipedia...ri#Pharmacology
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23772955




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